Guest rimchair Posted January 16, 2013 Posted January 16, 2013 Would Ray LaHood fly on one of these now? Oh wait, they have been grounded. "The Japanese people have become very worried after hearing day after day" about problems with the Dreamliner, Japan's transport minister, Akihiro Ota, said at a press conference Tuesday—the day before the latest incident." http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505123_162-57564202/entire-boeing-787-fleet-in-japan-grounded-after-mishaps/ Quote
Members firecat691614502759 Posted January 16, 2013 Members Posted January 16, 2013 People have such short memories. We had these incidents with the 777 and the first Airbus. Any time there is a jump in technology there are things that go wrong. It is usually a short time span to sort out what is the problem and then everyone forgets about it. So will be the case with this airplane. I am scheduled on one January 31 and I fully expect the plane to be flying and I am not the least bit worried. JKane and TotallyOz 2 Quote
BiBottomBoy Posted January 16, 2013 Posted January 16, 2013 Who knew that airplane manufacturers beta test their planes with real passengers? Quote
Guest EXPAT Posted January 16, 2013 Posted January 16, 2013 I have to say that I'm amazed at how many incidents this plane has had already when they should have been caught in the testing phase. I would be afraid to take it for a couple of years. Quote
Guest rimchair Posted January 16, 2013 Posted January 16, 2013 And this should be comforting: BY CURTIS TATE MCCLATCHY NEWSPAPERS WASHINGTON -- A fire that broke out last week in a Boeing 787 Dreamliner could have been hot enough to melt the carbon-fiber reinforced plastic that makes up the plane’s shell, according to the results of tests the Federal Aviation Administration performed last year. Early Wednesday, Japan's All Nippon Airways grounded all 17 of its Dreamliners after a flight made an emergency landing at the Takamatsu airport in western Japan. Smoke was reported in the cockpit, and the plane's 137 passengers were evacuated. Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/01/15/3184361/boeing-dreamliner-battery-fire.html#storylink=cpy Quote
Members ihpguy Posted January 16, 2013 Members Posted January 16, 2013 The continuing problems with the electrical suite, both fore and aft, cause serious discomfort. The lithium-ion, rechargeable batteries are just the latest indication of something more serious. Ditto the broken windshields, which could be caused by malfunctioning electrics as well. As with the fire in test plane 2, the past week's fire in Boston and now in western Japan, definitely not normal teething problems. One of these wonderjets could be flying over the Pacific from Narita to the US, and be three hours away from a diversion airport, rather than only 15 minutes when the melting from the excessive heat begins. Not cool. Quote
AdamSmith Posted January 16, 2013 Posted January 16, 2013 Many in the industry are making soothing noises to the effect that such teething problems are common with any new aircraft, and even some long in production such as the Airbus 380. The reason I am not so ready to swallow that assumption without a lot more data is Boeing's decision with the 787 to radically transform both the product design (all-composite airframe) and the production process (widely dispersed outsourcing of both design and fabrication of major product segments and systems). BMW's design engineering and manufacturing engineering organizations, to take just one example, have what they call (can't recall the German phrase but it sounds even more forbidding that way) an 'iron law' -- namely, never make big changes to the product and the engineering or production processes at the same time. That introduces too many new, unfamiliar sources of variance and uncertainty to make root-cause analysis of problems feasible within the limited program schedule. My suspicion is this may very well have happened, and is now beginning to bite Boeing in the hiney. Of course they did stretch out first delivery by three years or whatever. But some I know inside the company are disgusted that even with this, the time they had to spend helping subcontractors fix their mistakes still ate seriously into time that Boeing engineers would have preferred to spend on validation and quality testing. Quote
Members JKane Posted January 16, 2013 Members Posted January 16, 2013 Maybe not so much short memories, but people certainly do have limited frames of reference. Beta tests/guinea pigs? To pass ETOPS this plane has been through an enormous amount of testing. But that was all on slowly, painstakingly built early versions. Now in mass production there are likely to be some issues. Planes get grounded all the time for inspections. There is reason to be concerned that the new technology in the electrical suite is safe and reliable, but it will get worked out and clearly nobody is taking chances in the meantime. My recollection is that in the past it was common for there to be several fatal accidents around the time of an introduction of a new airframe. Certainly this was the worst of them and the company is no more, but that's a far cry from what is happening now. People wrung their hands (in here even) about early A380 issues (now entirely forgotten) too. Fucking "WILL YOU SURVIVE, WILL YOUR FAMILY SURVIVE, WHAT YOU *MUST* SEE BEFORE THE NEXT TIME YOU OR ANYBODY YOU KNOW DRIVES BY AN AIRPORT..." news these days... Quote
Guest rimchair Posted January 16, 2013 Posted January 16, 2013 For all of the believers in the 787, you can grab a flight tonite Chicago - Warsaw! By David ColkerJanuary 16, 2013, 11:09 a.m. Talk about a bad time to launch a new airline service. The Polish airline, LOT, is scheduled Wednesday night to debut its Boeing 787 Dreamliner service in the U.S. with a nonstop flight from Chicago to Warsaw. The high-tech Dreamliner, introduced with much hype by Boeing last year, has had a number of recent problems, including fires and fuel spills. And on Wednesday airlines in Japan said they were grounding their Dreamliner fleets due to a technical scare. But so far the Polish flight is still on. "According to our best knowledge," said an email from LOT's home office in Warsaw, "the flight from Chicago to Warsaw will be operated with the Dreamliner as scheduled." Quote
Guest rimchair Posted January 17, 2013 Posted January 17, 2013 People have such short memories. We had these incidents with the 777 and the first Airbus. Any time there is a jump in technology there are things that go wrong. It is usually a short time span to sort out what is the problem and then everyone forgets about it. So will be the case with this airplane. I am scheduled on one January 31 and I fully expect the plane to be flying and I am not the least bit worried. Apparently the FAA is worried: "The Federal Aviation Administration is worried, too. On Wednesday, the FAA announced plans to ground U.S.-registered Dreamliners until they pass an emergency airworthiness inspection addressing the potential risk of battery fire." http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/16/travel/dreamliner-passenger-worries/index.html Quote
Members RA1 Posted January 17, 2013 Members Posted January 17, 2013 I have to think rimchair is gloats. How did you enjoy your trip in a non-existent 650 when there were none delivered yet? The 787 definitely has a vendor problem which I would like to think would be solved by using entirely or more US vendors but that seems to be not PC. Boeing will take some economic and PR hits over this but the 787 is no Comet, to quote a poster from the "other" MB. The issues are not huge and not unmanageable. They will be fixed and soon. LOT has also grounded the 787 to be up to date. Grounding just means fix it before further flight which might be today or very, very soon. The Apollo flights likely should have been grounded but then we never would have gone to the moon, would we? Airline travel is nowhere nearly as dangerous. It just is not perfect and never will be. Are you willing to drive to the mall? That is VERY dangerous, statistically speaking. Best regards, RA1 JKane 1 Quote
Members MsGuy Posted January 17, 2013 Members Posted January 17, 2013 I have to think rimchair is gloats. Yet you rise to the bait, none-the-less, KMEM. Quote
Members MsGuy Posted January 17, 2013 Members Posted January 17, 2013 Yet you rise to the bait, none-the-less, KMEM. Well, I guess all of us have our compulsions: Even Ol Spidey! AdamSmith 1 Quote
Guest jimboivyo Posted January 17, 2013 Posted January 17, 2013 I have to think rimchair is gloats. How did you enjoy your trip in a non-existent 650 when there were none delivered yet? The 787 definitely has a vendor problem which I would like to think would be solved by using entirely or more US vendors but that seems to be not PC. Boeing will take some economic and PR hits over this but the 787 is no Comet, to quote a poster from the "other" MB. The issues are not huge and not unmanageable. They will be fixed and soon. LOT has also grounded the 787 to be up to date. Grounding just means fix it before further flight which might be today or very, very soon. The Apollo flights likely should have been grounded but then we never would have gone to the moon, would we? Airline travel is nowhere nearly as dangerous. It just is not perfect and never will be. Are you willing to drive to the mall? That is VERY dangerous, statistically speaking. Best regards, RA1 forgot about that lie he told. good memory kmem. glutes plays with the truth as much as the folks he rants about 'Well, I guess all of us have our compulsions:' yeah, I feel compelled to speak from experience, where in some here do not Quote
Members RA1 Posted January 17, 2013 Members Posted January 17, 2013 My compulsion isn't spreading untrue rumors or other prevarications. Fun is fun but there are limits even on an anonymous MB. Did you get snow today and did you enjoy it? Best regards, RA1 Quote
Guest rimchair Posted January 17, 2013 Posted January 17, 2013 May I remind people here that Boeing is no great progressive when it comes to same sex couples. That may please our conservative / Islamist elements that participate here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/22/boeing-gay-marriage-partner-benefits-_n_2174561.html Quote
Members MsGuy Posted January 18, 2013 Members Posted January 18, 2013 My compulsion isn't spreading untrue rumors or other prevarications. Fun is fun but there are limits even on an anonymous MB. Did you get snow today and did you enjoy it? Best regards, RA1 Just a sprinkle of snow early here...it was entirely gone by the time I got out around noon. Quote
Guest rimchair Posted January 18, 2013 Posted January 18, 2013 May I remind people here that Boeing is no great progressive when it comes to same sex couples. That may please our conservative / Islamist elements that participate here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/22/boeing-gay-marriage-partner-benefits-_n_2174561.html Imagine what a set of leaky lithium ion batteries will do: Boeing Agrees to Provide Equal Pension Benefits to Married Gay Couples posted by DOMINIC HOLDEN on THU, JAN 17, 2013 at 6:04 PM The Boeing Company has finally agreed to grant pension survivor benefits to same-sex married couples equal to their straight counterparts, according to the union currently hammering out a contract for thousands of the company's technical workers. That's a retreat for the aerospace giant (which is still locked in sour labor negotiations while its flagship 787 Dreamliner has been grounded by the FAA). As we first reported in November, the Boeing Company told union leaders that, even though Washington State's voters legalized marriage equality, it would continue to deny same-sex couples equal benefits because they weren't required to by federal law. "We are satisfied that this language protects same sex spouses," says Ray Goforth, executive director of the Society of Professional Engineering Employees in Aerospace (SPEEA), IFPTE Local 2001, which represents 23,000 Boeing engineers and technical workers. Most of those employees are in Washington State. The language negotiated today, which Goforth provided to The Stranger, reads as follows: "Recognizing Boeing’s commitment to equality without regard to sexual orientation, Boeing will extend pension survivor benefits to all spouses, as defined under either State or Federal law whichever defines the same sex person as a spouse." "This language also protects members if same-sex marriage is recognized at the federal level but made illegal at the state level," Goforth says. For example, benefits could still apply if the federal Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) is struck down and marriage equality is legal, "but then a state adopts its own discriminatory statute," he says. Nearly two months ago, Boeing told SPEEA that it intended to deny the benefits to same-sex married employees, and the company appeared to backpedal under media scrutiny by issuing a statement saying that it would be "taking a closer look" at company policy. One SPEEA member responded by launching an online petition asking Boeing to grant equal benefits to gay married employees, gathering 79,000 signatures. But SPEEA remains at an impasse over other key aspects the contract negotiations. The Boeing Company, which hasn't yet responded to a request for comment, today rejected previous union offers, which would extend existing contracts, and instead gave its final offer. SPEEA members will vote on that offer in the coming weeks. Quote
Guest rimchair Posted January 18, 2013 Posted January 18, 2013 I have to think rimchair is gloats. How did you enjoy your trip in a non-existent 650 when there were none delivered yet? The 787 definitely has a vendor problem which I would like to think would be solved by using entirely or more US vendors but that seems to be not PC. Boeing will take some economic and PR hits over this but the 787 is no Comet, to quote a poster from the "other" MB. The issues are not huge and not unmanageable. They will be fixed and soon. LOT has also grounded the 787 to be up to date. Grounding just means fix it before further flight which might be today or very, very soon. The Apollo flights likely should have been grounded but then we never would have gone to the moon, would we? Airline travel is nowhere nearly as dangerous. It just is not perfect and never will be. Are you willing to drive to the mall? That is VERY dangerous, statistically speaking. Best regards, RA1 It seems rather pecksniffian of you and Jimboi to be telling we proletariat what planes are safe to fly. I understand you both fly on private jets? Quote
Guest rimchair Posted January 21, 2013 Posted January 21, 2013 Just like with disgraced escorts trying to 'make it right', the Screamliner is in for more trouble: 6:00 p.m. CST, January 20, 2013 WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. safety investigators on Sunday ruled out excess voltage as the cause of a battery fire this month on a Boeing Co 787 Dreamliner jet operated by Japan Airlines Co (JAL) and said they were expanding the probe to look at the battery's charger and the jet's auxiliary power unit.Last week, governments across the world grounded the Dreamliner while Boeing halted deliveries after a problem with a lithium-ion battery on a second 787 plane, flown by All Nippon Airways Co (ANA), forced the aircraft to make an emergency landing in western Japan. Quote
AdamSmith Posted January 21, 2013 Posted January 21, 2013 Just like with disgraced escorts trying to 'make it right', the Screamliner is in for more trouble: I think I may be about as critical of the 787 as anyone here. Nor am I innocent of taking a shot at Noah now and again. But I do try to take my OCD meds on schedule. Quote
Members Lucky Posted January 21, 2013 Members Posted January 21, 2013 If I met rimchair in real life, I might find him to be an interesting and likable guy. But the rimchair who posts here is getting tiresome with the constant digs at Noah. Is it not time to move on? I came to this thread to read about a plane, not to hear one more dig. JKane 1 Quote
Guest FourAces Posted January 21, 2013 Posted January 21, 2013 Who knew that airplane manufacturers beta test their planes with real passengers? hey if its good for cars, cell phones, tvs, radios, washer and dryers and even some foods what the heck might as well use paying passengers to beta test their flights Quote
Guest FourAces Posted January 21, 2013 Posted January 21, 2013 Who knew that airplane manufacturers beta test their planes with real passengers? hey if its good for cars, cell phones, tvs, radios, washer and dryers and even some foods what the heck might as well use paying passengers to beta test their flights Quote
