Guest hitoallusa Posted November 5, 2012 Posted November 5, 2012 I have to deal with banks into illegal and unethical activities these days and not sure some bankers have conscience. What makes them become like that? They must be someone's loving wife, husband, mother, father, son and daughter... Of course they have to do everything they can to meet their departmet goals so that they can keep their job and get promoted but some employees at bank abuse the system and use loopholes so that they can manipulate numbers and produce misleading financial products. Their bosses don't have any issues with that as long as the numbers are high for their department. In the age where money is everything and any moral values are being rejected what hope do we have? I sometimes think of going into the mountains, build a self sufficient cabin and live there until my time comes so I don't have to see all that and deal with these disgusting acts of greed. They can serve themselves with their money. Quote
Guest EXPAT Posted November 5, 2012 Posted November 5, 2012 It all comes down to leadership. When the CEO states a direction and holds people accountable to that direction then the organization responds. A good example is Jamie Dimon at Chase/JP Morgan. He is really one of the greediest executives I've ever met yet he is held up as one of the most successful executives in banking history. If people only knew. It all starts with a leaders direction and his/her own ethical views on the world and the business. Hopefully board of directors share that view too. That can be the other problem since they are hired by the board of directors. Quote
Guest hitoallusa Posted November 5, 2012 Posted November 5, 2012 It's hard to object to a leader based on morality as long as there is prosperity and wealth under his leadership. The engine of democracy is the economic prosperity as some people say. Why I was not born as a pretty princess in a future kingdom of Utopia I lament. But I have to work with what I have and that is the fun part of life I guess. Quote
Members TampaYankee Posted November 5, 2012 Members Posted November 5, 2012 It's hard to object to a leader based on morality as long as there is prosperity and wealth under his leadership. The engine of democracy is the economic prosperity as some people say. Be careful what you are willing to accept. Hitler brought pride and prosperity to the economically faltering Weimar Republic. They hailed him as a great leader too. Quote
Guest hitoallusa Posted November 27, 2012 Posted November 27, 2012 So I'm preparing a lawsuit against a major bank. I feel sad for people working for that bank. Things they have to do to keep their jobs and get paid.. The only way to bring change is for that bank to go out of business but since it's too big to fail, it's unlikely to happen. I wonder whether people at the top can sleep at night by promoting their employees do such a thing. Will I win? Not sure but I want to give it a try. Calouste Gulbenkian, known as Mr Five Percent in the oil industry... was a persistent negotiator who would not give up... Maybe if I am persistent enough then I might be able to win the case.. Not after money but want to find out who and how such a fraudulent program got started and promoted. There must be an explanation.. I want to know... Quote
Guest Allessio77 Posted November 30, 2012 Posted November 30, 2012 I can't understand why everyone does not go over to credit unions. I know its a pain, but so worth it. Quote
AdamSmith Posted November 30, 2012 Posted November 30, 2012 You know too that the system is rigged: if you don't hire an attorney, the court won't take you seriously. If you do hire an attorney, he/she will charge fees that eat up your potential gains. Unless you have such a compelling case that they will take it on contingency. If yes, go for it! If not, don't waste your mortal span. Quote
Guest gcursor Posted November 30, 2012 Posted November 30, 2012 Great topic hitoall. This fits right in with the college ethics class that I'm taking in college too. You asked essentially why do people do "shady" or slightly unethical things. The short answer is: money and greed also ties into that. From movies to news stations to banks and everything else in between, money rules the world nowadays. News networks now must worry about how to consistently attract viewers so they can get money from the almight advertisers. Banks are the same way. They have people who expect that they will see a "return" on their investment. Everybody has to make a profit nowadays. You have to be able to say "I made you xxxx money" although frankly they will most likely say that it wasn't enough money. Greed rules our world today and we spend most of our waking hours trying to figure out how to get a few more bucks for ourselves. From cheating on taxes to embezzling some funds from a "pension", we all just want to get as much money as we can. Besides (we say to ourselves) we deserve it. We've worked long and hard in our life and for what? We barely have a 401k and we're one payment from living in the street. So we think why not? Nobody is ever going to find out, right? I mean it's a "victimless crime", isn't it? Plus it will make us so much happier in our lives. People are greedy, selfish bags of meat that worry about not much more than where their next dollar bill is coming from. So as these people fan out into society, they bring their "stellar" ethics with them into the workplace. They keep repeating "Nobody is going to find out" and "I owe this to myself" enough so that eventually they learn to believe it. Do they get caught? Rarely..unfortunately. However I firmly believe that if our country took a tougher stand against the greedy people of the world then these things would either become MUCH better hidden or reduce the problem somewhat. I still believe that if somebody was convicted of stealing at least a million dollars from any people by use of fraud or the like then the death penalty should be an option as punishment for them. Trust me...the amount of greed and runaway ethics issues would decrease most likely because really nobody wants to die just to get a million dollars illegally...well drug dealers do but white collar criminals would freak out at that option. However I do take my hat off to you Hitoall. It's good that you still wrestle with the problem of ethics. The world of ethics today is vast and far-reaching I did both of my papers on social media networks and gave examples of how these social networks can do things which should scare most people but often they rarely think about. Ethics has changed drastically over the years. The quiz show scandal of the 1950s would barely raise eyebrows in today's society. Rupert Murdoch's alleged misuse of his power probably will cause people in another 50 years to ignore it as easily. Why does it happen? Because we're selfish and we want our share of the pie ...and we will get our share of the pie no matter what we have to do to get it. Quote
Guest hitoallusa Posted November 30, 2012 Posted November 30, 2012 Well even though I win they will probably find loopholes and get away with it.. What I am trying to do is to find out who was actually behind the fradulent program and why some employees particiapted in the shady business.. I'm try to understand and add it to my book.. I don't think death wont be end of anything and I might be able to find the greedy guys involved in the fradulent product in my after life... They better be ready for me there if I don't get it resolved it In this life..I will get to the bottom of this.. I always try to achieve my goal if I can't I will pursue it in my after life... I won't be bored in heaven... Quote
Members TampaYankee Posted November 30, 2012 Members Posted November 30, 2012 So I'm preparing a lawsuit against a major bank. I feel sad for people working for that bank. Things they have to do to keep their jobs and get paid.. The only way to bring change is for that bank to go out of business but since it's too big to fail, it's unlikely to happen. I wonder whether people at the top can sleep at night by promoting their employees do such a thing. Will I win? Not sure but I want to give it a try. Calouste Gulbenkian, known as Mr Five Percent in the oil industry... was a persistent negotiator who would not give up... Maybe if I am persistent enough then I might be able to win the case.. Not after money but want to find out who and how such a fraudulent program got started and promoted. There must be an explanation.. I want to know... I've said it many times and I'll say it once more (at least), unbridled (unregulated) capitalism is corrupt. That is the long and the short of it. It has one goal which is to accumulate wealth. Sometimes that involves creating wealth. More often it involves getting it from other people. Capitalism has the capability to do great good and to do great harm. It all depends how it is used and for the benefit of whom. Quote
Members Lucky Posted December 1, 2012 Members Posted December 1, 2012 "So I'm preparing a lawsuit against a major bank." I did not know that you were a lawyer. Quote
Guest hitoallusa Posted December 1, 2012 Posted December 1, 2012 Well it is a misleading.. I'm a plaintiff for a lawsuit against a major bank.. I'm not a lawyer... "So I'm preparing a lawsuit against a major bank." I did not know that you were a lawyer. Quote
Members Lucky Posted December 1, 2012 Members Posted December 1, 2012 So who is preparing the lawsuit- you or a lawyer? Quote
AdamSmith Posted December 1, 2012 Posted December 1, 2012 If you can tell it without compromising your case, how did the bank wrong you? Quote
Guest hitoallusa Posted December 2, 2012 Posted December 2, 2012 Both.. I usually come up with a summary and we start from there ... We will see.. [quote name=Lucky' timestamp='1354343070' post='71360] So who is preparing the lawsuit- you or a lawyer? Quote
Guest hitoallusa Posted December 2, 2012 Posted December 2, 2012 I wil let you know when we meet.. If you can tell it without compromising your case, how did the bank wrong you? Quote
Guest hitoallusa Posted December 2, 2012 Posted December 2, 2012 I like to think about the future of our society.. I do think we will evolve into a better, more efficient and much more advanced society.. That society is only possible when we understand how the current system works and finding ways to improve it. I want to understand the psychology of these bankers who make fraudluent products and what makes them possible to get away with them. You might right TY but I want something deeper... Bail outs will happen again again because they hold the market as hostage.. We need reform but its hard to do it because most people are not informed properly by the media.. Maybe I will get to the bottom of this or not but through law suits I will be able to get them to disclose answer to some of the questions I want to ask... Whatever answer they give is valuable to me since I will be to get more answers and figure out what went on. The person who did it needs to be accounted for or at least exposed so that it doesn't happen again.. I've said it many times and I'll say it once more (at least), unbridled (unregulated) capitalism is corrupt. That is the long and the short of it. It has one goal which is to accumulate wealth. Sometimes that involves creating wealth. More often it involves getting it from other people. Capitalism has the capability to do great good and to do great harm. It all depends how it is used and for the benefit of whom. Quote
AdamSmith Posted December 2, 2012 Posted December 2, 2012 I wil let you know when we meet.. You are aware of my consulting rates...?! Quote
Guest hitoallusa Posted December 2, 2012 Posted December 2, 2012 Lol.. I can't afford your high rates... Just a sit down meal with me at a local salad place with a cup of organic tea will not be enough dear? You are aware of my consulting rates...?! Quote
AdamSmith Posted December 3, 2012 Posted December 3, 2012 Lol.. I can't afford your high rates... Just a sit down meal with me at a local salad place with a cup of organic tea will not be enough dear? ...Before the taking of a toast and tea. In the room the women come and go... http://people.virgin...2/prufrock.html Quote
Guest hitoallusa Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 The bank accepted my request and gave my money back without even going to court. The problem is that they will not provide the documents that I have requested since those documents will incriminate them and in the end I will end up with more money if this goes to trial. Things got settled even before my lawyer did any work so I don't have to pay anything and not to speak of high consult fee I would have to pay to our AS if this went to court. The last employee I spoke at the bank kind of understood my points. She was instructed to tape our conversation by her supervisor since there was a talk of lawsuit and I knew what they were doing it so I didn't say anything that can be used against me and was extremely nice to the employee. I feel sorry for her because if they treat their customers like this then I bet the working conditions will be really bad. I think her voice quivered in the end of our conversation. Not so sure whether these bankers will be happy after they make money like that. Quote
Members TampaYankee Posted December 12, 2012 Members Posted December 12, 2012 Color this one a victory. Quote
Guest hitoallusa Posted December 13, 2012 Posted December 13, 2012 Well I have to be fair if I did the same thing in a foreign country I don't think I would have won. The bank did their risk analysis well and made a reasonable decision. After all they can't risk losing if this goes to court. I will never know the inner workings of the program and people involved. I hope they can find an alternative investment that they can make reasonable money rather than participate in shady activities. The problem is that most people in the industry want to make money and rise to the top... That fierce competitive environment also makes people do wrong short sighted things to survive. Who can possibly blame them if they are doing it to feed their family? Quote
AdamSmith Posted December 13, 2012 Posted December 13, 2012 I follow TY in saying good for you for fighting this and getting a good outcome. And in a way that did not eat up your peace of mind for months or years, as chasing them through the courts can surely do. Quote
Members BigK Posted December 14, 2012 Members Posted December 14, 2012 Now that this matter has been settled, could you describe the scam? Quote
