More On Rice

[Guest FourAces]

Hey guys I have a question. In my picture post yesterday I used the word rice in the subject line to describe a Asian. Ax commented that the use of the word rice is derogatory. This is new to me ... is that the case? If so I am sorry and did not mean to offend any of the Asian readers here.

[Guest hitoallusa]

You didn't mean in a derogatory way so don't worry too much. You are such a gentleman to apologize. I need to get your number too... What should I do with all these potential future husbands? Lol...

Hey guys I have a question. In my picture post yesterday I used the word rice in the subject line to describe a Asian. Ax commented that the use of the word rice is derogatory. This is new to me ... is that the case? If so I am sorry and did not mean to offend any of the Asian readers here.

[JKane]

Hey guys I have a question. In my picture post yesterday I used the word rice in the subject line to describe a Asian. Ax commented that the use of the word rice is derogatory. This is new to me ... is that the case? If so I am sorry and did not mean to offend any of the Asian readers here.

It is often used is a pejorative way, but does that make it offensive? I've seen a Prius with a massive spoiler and huge exhaust tips, the universal description among car guys is "riced out". Gay men who prefer asians are often referred to as "rice queens". Are there people deeply offended by uses like that? Is this something else we need to tip toe around? Is "cracker" ever actually offensive, but on the other hand, is "beaner" ever not?

I don't know, and I became less sure as I wrote this! Very interesting question!

[MsGuy]

I'm told by my former step-sister-in-law that 'oriental' is also offensive. Who knew?

Of course she's an academic of sorts and a real bitch to boot, so what does she know?

[lookin]

FourAces, it never crossed my mind that you meant to be offensive and this thread confirms your good intentions. I think, though, that most any word that puts all members of an ethnic group into a single box based on a stereotype runs the risk of offending someone. To my mind, Asians are individuals and no doubt would like to be treated as such. Words that lump them all together overlook that individuality and may prove offensive. At least, that's how I've come to look at it.

When I was growing up, I heard the word 'kraut' used to refer to Germans and I believe at one time it was intended to be highly offensive. Same for 'potato eaters' to mean the Irish. So I tend to avoid words like that. Besides, I'm half German and really dislike sauerkraut. Although my Irish half does indeed love me my potatoes.

Reminds me of a running joke with an old friend that any sentence that begins with the phrase "You people" is not likely to have a happy ending.

[Guest hitoallusa]

Good that she is a former step-sister-in-law.. I don't want to have a cat fight with her at a family gathering.

I'm told by my former step-sister-in-law that 'oriental' is also offensive. Who knew?

Of course she's an academic of sorts and a real bitch to boot, so what does she know?

[AdamSmith]

Suppose our 'umble town at the mouth of the Neuse River will just have to put up...

...First settled in the early 1700’s and later known as Smith Creek, the name “Oriental” was suggested by Rebecca “Aunt Becky” Midyette, wife of Louis “Uncle Lou” Midyette. Mrs. Midyette was inspired by the name of a Union Civil War ship that sank off the Outer Banks in 1862 while carrying Gideonites and soldiers from Boston to Georgia. On a trip to Manteo, she saw the ship’s name board hanging in a residence she was visiting. Taken with the name, she returned home with an idea that would change Smith Creek forever. The new name was approved in 1886. The Town of Oriental was incorporated in 1899. “Uncle Lou” served as its first Postmaster.

[caeron]

If you want to understand the issues regarding 'oriental', you can read Edward Said's Orientalism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orientalism_%28book%29 (I was an asian studies major way back in the day, and this was a big academic debate.)

The objections to the term oriental arise more from the assumptions layered over that term. Asian, or something like that doesn't carry as much baggage. Of course, over the years I've gotten a bit jaded about the political correctness of language, since I think political correctness of ACTION is much, much more important.

Rice queen is an old phrase for someone attracted to asians, and while I think it has humor, I don't think it has much sting to it.

Which is all a way of saying, yes, some people have issues with terms and care a lot. I think most don't. So I wouldn't get too caught up in it, but might want to say Asian instead of oriental. South Asian or East Asian if you want to be more specific.

[Suckrates]

I like FRIED rice !

[AdamSmith]

Edward Said's Orientalism

Lordamighty. I escaped by inches (OK, a little farther than that) getting a Lit PhD under Unca Ed. But I did in the end conclude his thumping away at his pet themes was not quite as fruitful or interesting as the -- at first glance more superficial-seeming -- aesthetic obsessions of my boa deconstructors at Jale.

Now, my later longtime neighbor Chomsky...

(Oddly, or maybe not, I have yet to sleep with (!) an Asian who takes exception to the "Oriental" label. Our LA friend splendidpup for example can spin endless hours of mutual explication of cultural to and fro out of it. Whilst we of course buggering each other silly.)

[caeron]

Well, Mr. Ed had a point, but like most who have such a perspective, I think he took it way too far. I don't think I would have wanted to get a PhD under him! Lucky you for escaping.

I agree most don't find the term oriental offensive, but since there are other safer phrases that serve the exact same purpose, I just use those.

[Guest epigonos]

At times like this I think we have carried political correctness to the point of the absurd. It says something about how uptight our society has become when certain words can NOT even be used when quoting but must be referred to as the "n-word" or the "b-word". I have in the past referred to myself as something of a rice queen and fully intend to continue doing so.

[AdamSmith]

Herewith, ta dah!, the one and only place where one can say & enact whatever in heaven or on earth one wishes, free from any least PC bidness...

http://societybilliards.com/

Everyone and everything is on the DL there.

My very most favorite place in all of Gotham.

...SHHH!

[lookin]

For me, as long as there's someone in my circle who finds a word objectionable - as one poster did - and I have it within my power to use a less offensive synonym - as I sometimes do - it doesn't seem absurd to do so. I think it shows respect for others. Of course, the amount of respect we choose to show for the feelings of others is an individual decision, and there are many shades of gray.

[Guest hitoallusa]

Love it Lookin! What a wonderful post!

For me, as long as there's someone in my circle who finds a word objectionable - as one poster did - and I have it within my power to use a less offensive synonym - as I sometimes do - it doesn't seem absurd to do so. I think it shows respect for others. Of course, the amount of respect we choose to show for the feelings of others is an individual decision, and there are many shades of gray.

[Guest FourAces]

Hey guys at the end of Obama's speech tonight family joined him on stage .. but also a few others. Anybody know who the rice is ( I joke I joke ) but does anybody happen to know who the Asian guy is? He looked pretty sexy all dressed up and standing on stage with our president

[AdamSmith]

lookin, I am with you 100%. My joking post about that after-hours pool hall in NYC notwithstanding. (Although that particular place is in fact a fascinating, if often morbidly so, sociological laboratory. Or at least Petri dish.)

To caeron's point about language vs. action ... I would have said it that way too for a long time. But it slowly has come to seem that, well, to speak IS to act, in one sense. Speaking gives form to, shapes and enacts our thoughts, imprints them on the world and others. (See for example Wallace Wattles, Think and Grow Rich, first in that long line of creative-visualization proponents: without sailing off the edge of the world, nevertheless I am finally beginning to see what on earth they are talking about, and it is proving invaluable in helping me rebuild my consulting business.)

At the same time, in therapy, especially of addictions, there is the principle that "You can't think your way into new action; you have to begin by acting your way into new thinking."

Speech is, again, such a fascinatingly complex instrument in its role as both shaper and conveyor and enacter of thought, and at the same time an instrument of direct action (cf. for example as I know you know Austin's How to Do Things with Words).