More Retirement Visa Information

[Guest buckeroo2]

I am not sure how my quote which you highlighted and your question are related. Do I apply for what in Pattaya or BKK - if you are asking about where I applied for my retirement visa - I did that on 2 separate occasions and both times I did it at Pattaya Immigration.

 

 

do you apply in Pattaya or Bangkok, buckeroo2?

 

Although here on a retirement visa, I still work outside the country. I buy quite a lot of things here using credit cards which bill me in HK$ and never appear on my Bangkok account. Having to remit 800,000 Bt. is therefore a real pain in the butt, even tho' it's only once a year.

Totally agree, Gaybutton. What about people who are fully retired here and have some cash in the stock market or unit trusts. The market here grew 100% over 12 months a few years back. I understand that 'income' does not count towards the Bt. 800,000. even though it was generated from funds which originally had been remitted from overseas!

 

Last point. Surely there should be two rates for inward remittances - one for those who are renting accommodation and therefore must commit some part of their remittance in rent etc., and a lesser amount for those who actually own their accommodation? But I suppose this is an exercise in futility as the rules ain't gonna change.

 

[Guest Hedda]

I must be very dense

No more so than the people making all these silly rules. To recapitulate for us dense people:

 

In Pattaya, you need nothing more in the way of financial assets to obtain or renew your retirement visa than Thai bank documents proving you have 800,000 baht on deposit, preferably for 90 days before you apply, if it's your first time. To be safe, I make sure I have the 800,000 in there for 90 days for my renewals, just in case I get that one bitchy lady who seems to enjoy finding problems with paperwork.

 

If you are using the embassy certification of monthly income to qualify for the visa, you will probably also have to show documents that you have a Thai bank account, although you are not required to have 800,000 in that account. That's presumably shows you are not a lying gypsy with a fake passport and forged embassy letter.

 

Now that you presumably understand this, you can rest assured it will be changed soon.

[Guest wowpow]

"It is one or the other, plus the letter from the bank" GB

 

I am sure that it can also be a mix of the two. The income requirement is 65,000 baht a month and the lump sum is 800,000 baht. A mix of the two is allowed e.g. pension 32,500 a month and lump sum 400,000 baht. Each requires the appropriate conditions and paperwork.

 

I have never met anyone who has applied using a mix.

[Guest Asmerom]

"It is one or the other, plus the letter from the bank" GB

 

I am sure that it can also be a mix of the two. The income requirement is 65,000 baht a month and the lump sum is 800,000 baht. A mix of the two is allowed e.g. pension 32,500 a month and lump sum 400,000 baht. Each requires the appropriate conditions and paperwork.

 

I have never met anyone who has applied using a mix.

What kind,delightful and helpful people you all are. Not one bilious reply. Thailand must be a real boost to the spirit. The boys, the sun,the food, the sand. ( Is that in the right order?) Or is it that GB has chased away the few mischievous trolls and jinns, who occaisionally crawled out of the woodwork? I feel much less dense this morning having completely grasped all those so clearly explained rules and regulations. Many thanks for all your efforts. I look forward to being re-educated when everything inevitably changes.

Asmerom. UK

[Gaybutton]

is it that GB has chased away the few mischievous trolls and jinns, who occasionally crawled out of the woodwork?

 

Applying for the retirement visa can seem complex and confusing, but it really is not. It's actually quite simple once you make up your mind whether to do it by having the 800,000 baht or the proof-of-income statement. Wowpow is probably correct that it can be a mix, but I also have never met anyone who tried it that way.

 

As for the trolls, I meant what I said in an earlier post about keeping this board a "troll free environment." We're simply not going to put up with any more of it. Also, to clarify matters, most people seem to assume that I'm the one who makes those decisions. At least I'm usually the one who receives the complaints and/or the thank-you messages. The fact is there are three moderators on this message board. I'm only one of them. Both GayThailand and Stef are the others. Although we are each authorized to act unilaterally, we have never done so. When a problem poster gets dumped, it is by agreement of all three of us.

 

There have been a few problem posters who have recently had their posting privileges revoked. I have a feeling they are reading this message. If you are one of them and you believe that I unilaterally removed your posting privileges, feel free to contact GayThailand and Stef and find out for yourself whether I acted unilaterally or all three of us agreed to get rid of you.

 

In short, if you come to this board and act like a troll, then expect to be treated like one.

[Guest gwm4sian]

"It is one or the other, plus the letter from the bank" GB

 

I am sure that it can also be a mix of the two. The income requirement is 65,000 baht a month and the lump sum is 800,000 baht. A mix of the two is allowed e.g. pension 32,500 a month and lump sum 400,000 baht. Each requires the appropriate conditions and paperwork.

 

I have never met anyone who has applied using a mix.

 

I renewed late last year using a mix. The proof of income letter left me a bit short, so i was required to show at least 120K in a Bank account. An interesting side point is that the balance in the bank account when using the mix method doesn't have to have been there for 3 months. Also, wasn't asked for ATM card. Did it at Jomtien, application processed in under 10 minutes.

 

The previous year I used the 800K method, but thought I would try out the mix this time around - hassle free. Got the proof of income letter from the Hon British Consul in Pattaya

[Gaybutton]

Got the proof of income letter from the Hon British Consul in Pattaya

 

Thank you for that information. You just settled a question nobody else was able to answer.

 

Most of us know that the US embassy requires nothing other than an oath that you are telling the truth to get the proof-of-income statement. Nothing has been said about what the British requirements are. Can you tell us what, if anything, the British Consul requires?

[2lz2p]

At a December Pattaya City Expat Club (PCEC) meeting, the Honorary British Consul indicated that he looks at various documents. As I recall, he did not say it had to be a specific document, but did mention they could include bank statements, letter from pension provider, etc. He also said that he places a British Embassy Stamp (no charge) on copies of the documents. He went on to say that Pattaya Immigration would probably start requiring Embassy stamps on copies of supporting documents. The following are excerpts from the PCEC weekly Newsletters, which for some will be clarifying things and for others, it will probably still be considered a muddying of the waters -- whatever, this was what was reported (I have omitted the Honorary Consuls name since, as I recall, identifying people by their name violates posting rules for some boards):

 

(12/16/07 Newsletter)

 

RETIREMENT VISA UPDATE

[Gaybutton]

2lz2p, what the British consul says might very well happen. If it does, I don't see it as a big problem. It shouldn't be difficult for people to obtain the necessary documentation unless they are trying to live in Thailand on less than the minimum requirement. Even then, if it's a choice of coming up with convincing documents or being forced to leave Thailand, then I'll bet most of them will come up with the documents somehow.

 

This is yet another one on my "I Don't Get It" list. I've never understood why a proof-of-income statement is what the Immigration office wants in the first place. My logic tells me that a requirement to show the immigration office proof-of-pension documentation, instead of the proof-of-income statement should have been in place long ago. I can understand why they might want that documentation notarized by the embassy, but the Consul is right. The whole thing is about proving that you have income enough to support yourself in Thailand without becoming a financial burden on the Thai government.

 

When it comes to pensions, I also don't get the reason why it is necessary to come up with documentation annually. I don't see why it should be necessary to show pension documentation more than once, when first applying for the retirement visa. People's pensions either go up each year or at least remain the same, don't they? I've never heard of anyone's pension being decreased annually (unless they worked for Enron - then having to show valid documentation would make some sense).

 

Oh well, if that's the documentation they'll eventually want, then we'll just have to provide it.

 

[2lz2p]

Gaybutton,

 

I agree with you -- especially about having to show (prove) the income every year - as you say, it usually stays the same or goes up. But, if that is what they want, then that is what I will provide.

 

I do have funds transferred to my Thai bank account - set up an automatic transfer some 5 years ago before moving here so that I would transfer at least the 800k into Thailand during the year.- just in case Immigration wanted such proof. They never did, but it appears that has or may change. However, with the Baht going from 42 (when I came here to live) and the current hovering around 33, it no longer equals the 800k. Rather than transfer in more funds, I have been using my US bank ATM card.

 

I have no problem with showing documentation to support the Embassy letter, but my concern is the Honorary British Consul (HBC) saying they may require an Embassy stamp on such documents -- for our UK friends, that apparently is not a problem since the HBC has such a stamp. He says that he does not charge for applying it to copies of the documents. Further, he says he writes "as seen by" on the copies, which is different from representing the documents are authentic. Also, I gather from talking with some other Expats that are not American or British, that most of the other Embassies do check documents before issuing their Embassy letter.

 

But, I think the US Embassy has no desire to take on such responsibility. Instead, they use their usual Notarial service to notarize a signed statement of their citizens as to the amount of pensions income -- and, yes, I do know some Americans that live on Social Security of less than the required monthly amount signing and affirming the Embassy letter, on which they have stated they actually receive more - enough to meet Immigration requirements.. For those of us that can prove the amount, my guess is that to get an "Embassy stamp" we would have to make a copy of our document(s) and write something on them such as, " This is a true and accurate copy of the original document." and then signing it in front of the Embassy official and having them notarize it -- which doesn't prove anything, but would probably be acceptable to the Thai authorities since it would have the "stamp." The only difference between the "as seen by" used by the HBC and a "notarial" stamp by the US Embassy, is that Americans would have to pay for the stamp ($30 for first notarization and $20 for each additional, if I recall correctly). Also, if using Bank Statements, would each one have to be "stamped?" That could get expensive.

 

The HBC also said that he thought if your Thai bank book shows you deposited from foreign funds the required amount during the year, that would be sufficient without the need for any other documentation (or Embassy stamps).

 

Having said all of that, so far, I haven't heard anyone at the Expat club meetings say they were required to provide any documentation other than the Embassy letter when renewing -- haven't heard from anyone making their first application. Personally, I am going to transfer additional funds before my next renewal to ensure my Thai bank book shows I have deposited at least 800K in hopes that if additional documentation is required, that will be enough.

 

 

[Gaybutton]

a "notarial" stamp by the US Embassy, is that Americans would have to pay for the stamp ($30 for first notarization and $20 for each additional, if I recall correctly). Also, if using Bank Statements, would each one have to be "stamped?" That could get expensive.

 

Those numbers are correct. Let's hope it doesn't come to that. I seriously doubt that even the Thai immigration officials would come up with regulations that would require people to have to spend hundreds, perhaps thousands of dollars to get loads of individual documents notarized annually. If they do, I would think the US embassy would intervene somehow, either with a letter that would certify the documents have been checked and certified or a flat fee for those requiring documents for immigration purposes.

 

That would make at least some sense. That's what scares me.

[Gaybutton]

Here's some more information:

 

Yesterday I was with a friend who applied for the retirement visa. He entered Thailand on the 30-day limitation you get when you arrive at the airport without first having obtained a visa. He had no problems getting the retirement visa. He had all the necessary documentation including the proof-of-income statement from the embassy, but before granting the visa the Immigration office needed to first convert his visa-on-entry to a Type "O" visa. That was no problem either, except they charge for that.

 

So, he ended up having to pay the fee for a Type "O" visa first, and then also had to pay the fee for the retirement visa. 3900 baht by the time he was through.

 

In other words, to get the retirement visa you don't have to go through getting a Type "O" visa first before entering Thailand, if you're eligible for the retirement visa, but you'll still end up paying the fees.

 

Actually, since you have to pay the fees anyway, it seems much easier to just take care of everything at the immigration office. That way you don't have to send your passport off to a Thai embassy or consulate first and then wait for your passport to be returned, along with filling out the application, obtaining a money order, providing a return envelope and postage, etc. You can simply do the whole thing on the spot right at the Immigration office without any of the hassles.

 

The Immigration officer will tell you what additional document copies he needs (just more copies of some of the documents you already copied to get the retirement visa), which you can get right next door at the photo shop (in Pattaya), and then there is a short application to fill out. The Immigration officer does the rest. He'll stamp in the Type "O" visa on the spot and then take care of the rest of the documentation for the retirement visa. You still have to return the next day, however, to pick up your passport with the retirement visa in place.

 

Because Immigration now requires a new proof-of-income statement each year when you renew the retirement visa, assuming thats how you are going to do it rather than the 800,000 baht option, yes they do keep the original instead of just a copy.

 

Now, one more thing that will probably provide a feeling of relief for many of you. They do require a copy, front and back, of your ATM and/or credit card. However, after simply taking a glance, the Immigration officer herself blacked out the numbers, all the numbers, not just the last four digits and the three-digit security code. For those of you who were upset over the possibility that somebody could take the information and wipe out your bank account or charge up your credit card, obviously that's not going to happen. Just why, then, they want a copy at all is just another item on my "I Don't Get It" list, but at least now you don't have to worry about someone from Immigration accessing your ATM or credit card information.

 

Also, at least at the Pattaya Immigration office, if you're going in the morning, get there before 11:30 AM. We arrived at 11:45 and took a number, but they close up shop at noon and start again at 1:00. They hadn't called our number by noon, so we had to wait an hour until they reopened. Oh well, lunch at Dick's Cafe while we were waiting was very nice . . .

 

For those of you who have access to a car, my friend wanted to get the proof-of-income statement, the letter from the bank, and get to the Immigration office all in one day. We left Pattaya for Bangkok at 5:00 AM so we could get to the US Embassy right at their 7:30 AM opening time. Why so early? After all there's no traffic problems getting to Bangkok at that hour. The trouble is, once you get to Bangkok the traffic problems in the city have already started.

 

Also, we had to figure out where we could park the car. One of the toughest things to do in Bangkok is finding somewhere to park anywhere near where you're trying to go, especially if you're trying to go to the embassy, and even more especially if you're not familiar enough with Bangkok to have a good idea where to find a place to park at all. Not only that, but if you have to park far enough away from the embassy, or wherever you are going, that you'll need to take a taxi, it has to be a place easy enough for you to be able to tell another taxi later how to take you back to the location of wherever you parked.

 

We didn't have any luck finding a parking place near the embassy, so we went to the Siam Center, parked in their parking lot, and took a taxi to the embassy. The Siam Center charges 20 baht per hour to park and a taxi from there to the embassy was about 50 baht.

 

We were back in Pattaya and at the bank to get the letter at 11:10. By the time we got the letter and got to the Immigration office, it was 11:45. If we were a lousy 5 minutes earlier getting to the Immigration office, we would have been called before their noon lunch break, but it didn't work out that way. At least we were the first ones called when the lunch break was over.

 

I can tell you that driving to and from Bangkok is much easier now if you are taking Route 7 to get there, rather than taking Route 3 through Si Racha and Chonburi. Route 7 is the expressway most taxis now use to get to Suvarnabhumi Airport. For a very long time there were always major traffic delays because of the construction on the expressway. Most of the delays were at the detours around the several overpasses that were under construction. Two of those overpasses are still under construction, but the rest of them are now open. We experienced no delays at all.

[Guest gwm4sian]

Thank you for that information. You just settled a question nobody else was able to answer.

 

Most of us know that the US embassy requires nothing other than an oath that you are telling the truth to get the proof-of-income statement. Nothing has been said about what the British requirements are. Can you tell us what, if anything, the British Consul requires?

 

 

In my case I showed him the annual letter my pension fund sends out saying "this year your pension will be xxx"

 

 

For anybody contemplating getting a retirement visa i would recommend http://www.wpcoe.com/visa/ as essential reading.

 

Note: if you can, download the appropriate forms from the immigation department in word format. These are very easy to fill in on your computer, and can then be printed off. It seems that Pattaya like the clarity of this, as opposed to scruffy handwriting.

 

 

 

[Gaybutton]

Note: if you can, download the appropriate forms from the immigation department in word format. These are very easy to fill in on your computer, and can then be printed off. It seems that Pattaya like the clarity of this, as opposed to scruffy handwriting.

 

I'd like to be absolutely sure of this. Have you, or anybody you know, actually filled out, downloaded, and submitted the form in this manner? If yes, was there any problem about Immigration accepting it?

[Guest gwm4sian]

I'd like to be absolutely sure of this. Have you, or anybody you know, actually filled out, downloaded, and submitted the form in this manner? If yes, was there any problem about Immigration accepting it?

 

Yes I have personally. I did my initial retirement visa that way, then last years renewal, re-entry permits and all my 90 day reports like that.

 

Other than signing the forms, the only time i was asked to write anything extra was last years retirement renewal, where the officer at Jomtien asked me to write on my phone number, apologising that the form had not been updated yet.

 

The only proviso is that where a form has 2 pages print them out back to back on a single sheet of paper.

 

Advantages: saves time and effort, and you keep a record on your computer.

 

[Guest GaySacGuy]

Can anyone tell me what the letter from the bank says??? I have gotten one, but since it was in Thai I had no idea what the letter said. Seeems I keep having to sign things that I really have no idea what they say!!