More Retirement Visa Information

[Gaybutton]

Today I was helping a friend obtain the documents necessary in order to obtain the retirement visa. One of our stops was his bank, to get the letter required by immigration. He was asked if he is going to apply for the visa with use of the proof-of-income statement from the embassy. The answer was yes. The next question was whether he already has the statement. The answer was he is going to the embassy to get it next week. He was then told that he needs to get the letter after obtaining the proof-of-income statement. That's because Immigration will not accept the letter from the bank if it is more than one week old.

 

I did not know that before. I did not know there is a one week limitation on the letter from the bank. The advice was to obtain the letter either one day before or on the same day he intends to apply for the retirement visa.

[Guest TOQ]

Today I was helping a friend obtain the documents necessary in order to obtain the retirement visa. One of our stops was his bank, to get the letter required by immigration. He was asked if he is going to apply for the visa with use of the proof-of-income statement from the embassy. The answer was yes. The next question was whether he already has the statement. The answer was he is going to the embassy to get it next week. He was then told that he needs to get the letter after obtaining the proof-of-income statement. That's because Immigration will not accept the letter from the bank if it is more than one week old.

 

I did not know that before. I did not know there is a one week limitation on the letter from the bank. The advice was to obtain the letter either one day before or on the same day he intends to apply for the retirement visa.

 

There is a one week limit on the bank letter but in acutally they really like the letter to be dated the day you apply for the visa or one day before. I would suggest you update your book the day you go to apply and make a copy of the main bank book page and at least the last page of book showing the update. BTW, if you are using an embassy letter it is good only for 90 days. They dont tell you that either.

 

john

 

[Guest A Rose By Any Other Name]

Today I was helping a friend obtain the documents necessary in order to obtain the retirement visa.

 

You have a friend? Well, I'll be damned.

 

Anyhow, I ran into this same problem myself. It has actually been a rule for years now that you must have the bank letter before in a timely fashion (I think they told me one week last time I went). I think they are trying to discourage people from "sharing funds" to give the illusion that someone who doesn't have the money -- actually does. Is this what you were trying to do with your friend, GB?

 

TR The Rose

[Guest wowpow]

G.B If you friend was getting his retirement visa using a statement of income from his Embassy why would he need a letter from the bank. Maybe I have missed out on some new requirement?

 

Perhaps he was using a mix of the two?

 

I have no idea why they ask for the letter to be written within a few day of applying particularly now that they demand that the money has been in Thailand for 3 months.

[Guest A Rose By Any Other Name]

G.B If you friend was getting his retirement visa using a statement of income from his Embassy why would he need a letter from the bank. Maybe I have missed out on some new requirement?

 

Perhaps he was using a mix of the two?

 

I have no idea why they ask for the letter to be written within a few day of applying particularly now that they demand that the money has been in Thailand for 3 months.

 

That's just it, Wowpow. And if Gb hadn't deleted my last comment you would have seen that something strange was happening in this transaction. I would venture a guess that money is being transferred from one person's account to another to give the impression that this person has enough money to retire in Thailand. This happens quite often and is in fact the reason why the Thai government tries to crack down on retirement visas.

 

TR The Rose

[Gaybutton]

G.B If your friend was getting his retirement visa using a statement of income from his Embassy why would he need a letter from the bank? Maybe I have missed out on some new requirement?

 

Apparently you have missed out. That regulation has been in place for quite some time now. Anyone who is obtaining or renewing a retirement visa, who is also using the proof-of-income statement from the embassy, is required to produce a letter from his Thai bank. That letter, from what I understand, certifies that one's income is generated from a foreign source. I don't know why that letter is required, but that's what Immigration requires nevertheless. Without the letter they will not grant the visa.

 

I don't know what the letter actually says. It's written in Thai and I can't read Thai. I've never bothered to have the letter translated. It's just another piece of paperwork Immigration requires. All you have to do is go to the bank (usually you have to go to the branch where you opened your account) and ask for the letter for Immigration. 200 baht later, which is the fee most banks charge, you have the letter, whatever it says.

 

[Guest jomtien]

You only need the letter from the bank if you are using the proof-of-income statement to get the visa, but don't have 800,000 baht in your bank account.

 

 

I believe this is incorrect. I keep 800,000 B in my account and also need the letter from the bank. The letter states it came from outside the country. This lets them know the 800,000 B didn't come from selling hair gel on the beach.

 

 

 

[Gaybutton]

I believe this is incorrect. I keep 800,000 B in my account and also need the letter from the bank. The letter states it came from outside the country. This lets them know the 800,000 B didn't come from selling hair gel on the beach.

 

That is something I didn't know. It was my understanding that the letter requirement applies only to those who don't have the 800,000 baht in their Thai bank account.

 

I have now edited out the portion of my post that contained the misinformation, so there should be no confusion now. Apparently, since they asked for the letter from you too, it is required of everyone.

[Guest Trongpai]

If you bank at the Bangkok Bank, Silom branch don't go to the service hall where you take a number and wait. You go straight to counter number 54 in the main hall, it's labled strangly, "Accounts of the Deceased". No numbers here, I guess your numbers up if your dead. It's 100B and took me 5 min. if I don't count the 30 min I spent in the service room waiting for my number to be called and told I was in the wrong room.

[Guest wowpow]

Can I try to summarise the "letter' requirements as I understand them.

 

If applying, with proof of income affidavit from an Embassy, then a recent letter from your bank is require saying that income is coming from abroad. Is there any requirement for Bank passbook copies? Presumably they want to see if the income is coming into Thailand.

 

If applying with 800,000 baht in a bank account, for over 90 days, then they require a recent letter from the bank stating the current total, the length that that over 800,000 has been there and that it came from abroad. They also require sight of the passbook and photocopies of all pages.

[2lz2p]

A common misconception has been that you need a letter from the bank only when using the 800K+ in the bank to qualify. There have been several postings off and on on various message boards from people who were using the Embassy letter and were surprised when Immigration told them to get a letter from their bank. I used the 800K for my initial extensions and the Embassy letter ever since (will be getting my 5th renewal next time I go). I have always had a bank letter for each renewal.

 

I'm not sure what the letter states (as Gaybutton says, it is in Thai). But, I do not believe it shows anything more than bank account number and the balance as of the day the letter is written (in looking at my copy of the last bank letter, the only numbers on it correspond to the date, account number, and balance in my account on the date indicated). I have always obtained it on the date or the day before I applied for renewal.

 

In the past (including my last renewal), Pattaya Immigration was continuing to accept copies of Embassy letters on income and allowing you to reuse it again the next year - they did look at the original, but took the copy. The Honorary British Consul for Pattaya, who provides those letters for British citizens, has stated that Pattaya Immigration is now requiring the original be submitted and they will not accept any over one year old. However, based on several reports posted on message boards as well as comments made to me by friends and associates who have renewed in the past 2 or 3 months, Immigration is taking the original, but still accepting those that are 1, 2, and 3 years old. My guess is that they are taking the old originals of people who were allowed to use a copy the last time. Although I used a copy last time, I plan to get a new one for my next renewal (still a few months away).

 

The Honorary Consul has also said that the 800k in the bank for 3 months is only needed for initial application. He said it can be less than 3 months if renewing. He also has recently reported on a new requirement to provide photocopies of either an ATM or credit card and that it is permitted to black out sensitive numbers.

 

 

 

 

[Guest Hedda]

I'm not sure what the letter states (as Gaybutton says, it is in Thai).

It says: "Thanks for the business. Your usual 20% is available for pick-up anytime."

 

I have one other comment regarding the requirement that the source of the bank funds be identified as coming from overseas. As far as I know, the standard bank letter does not state that information. I was told by my bank that the coded entry in your passbook, which immigration requires you copy, identifies funds which originate as deposits from overseas sources.

 

 

[Guest wowpow]

Ouch! The mystery deepens.

 

I renewed my retirement Visa in July. I am aware that rules at all Immigration offices change and Pattaya more than most.

 

I enquired nearly three months before renewal and was told that the three months lodging of the 800,000 baht was required for renewals. The officer also said " and now no extensions". I presumed that this meant that previously they had allowed extensions to the retirement visa but no longer.

 

I had rather hoped that the credit card/ATM card photocopy requirement would have been dropped by now. It goes very much against the grain - even though this is illogical - you give out your credit card number and Direct debit card number every time you make a purchase. Even though I am learning not to ask the logic behind actions in Thailand I really am bemused by this one. What on earth can they want the number for? Do they have access to bank records and use them to trace where the card has been used?

[Guest fountainhall]

the requirement that the source of the bank funds be identified as coming from overseas. As far as I know, the standard bank letter does not state that information. I was told by my bank that the coded entry in your passbook, which immigration requires you copy, identifies funds which originate as deposits from overseas sources.

 

I will be renewing my one year visa late next month and have come up against a problem that may only apply to a few Bangkok-based retirees. For various reasons I bank with HSBC which does not issue passbooks. Savings accounts are linked to a checking account and so I only get a monthly statement on which both balances are listed. I have been advised by an Immigration lawyer to get the bank to certify as "true copies" the November statement which itemises the incoming Bt. 800.000 remittance and the upcoming January statement, plus providing the usual letter certifying the savings account balance as of the day before I make the application. For some reason, any balance in the checking account, it seems, does not count!!

 

As if that's not enough, I have to copy the outgoing remittance confirmation from HSBC in Hong Kong to confirm that Hong Kong dollars were remitted AND the incoming remittance advice showing the same amount and the rate of exchange calculation by the bank!

 

I guess I must be crazy because this all seems much more than a case of belt and braces!

[Gaybutton]

The rules seem to change as often as the weather. Unfortunately, every time the rules change, someone comes up with something more absurd than the rules had been. Most of these changes end up on my "I Don't Get It" list. If all this is because they want some sort of proof that your income source is outside of Thailand, fine. I really don't see what difference it makes whether your money is coming from inside or outside of Thailand. Maybe you're lucky enough to have a sugar daddy giving you all your money right here in Thailand, which could easily mean that you've got plenty of money, but it all comes from within Thailand. Just because your money might be coming from within Thailand, that doesn't necessarily mean that you're working illegally in Thailand. Even if you are working illegally in Thailand, the usual Thai salary doesn't exactly generate enough income to keep the average "farang" living in the style to which he is accustomed.

 

Ok, they want a new proof-of-income statement from the embassy each year? Fine. I'll go to the embassy and get it. They want a letter from the bank? Fine. I'll go to the bank and get it. They want copies of ATM and/or credit cards? Fine, I'll give it to them. I don't know why they want these things and so far I have heard no stories about anyone giving their banking or credit card information to Immigration and then finding their accounts wiped, so I'm not afraid of giving them the information. When they come up with even more rules, I'll follow them. Different Immigration offices have different rules? Fine. I'll follow whatever rules they have.

 

All I ask is that they clarify what the rules actually are. I don't want to even try to get anyone at Immigration to explain the reasons for the rules. That's because no matter how many Immigration officers you ask, you'll get a different answer every time. You'll probably get a different answer even if you ask an Immigration officer to explain one day, and then go back and ask the same officer the same question the next day. The common denominator is that none of the answers will make sense anyhow.

 

Look at the bright side . . . it's only once a year.

[Guest buckeroo2]

In regards to the bank letter or passbook showing that the money in my Thai bank account is coming from an overseas source - that is not the case with me. I have had a Siam Commerce bank account for 8 years and the only time I ever had money deposited from overseas was when I bought my condo 8 years ago. Since then, while in Thailand, I withdraw money from my US based account via an ATM and I deposit some of that money in my Siam Commerce account as needed. No money is ever deposited in my Thai bank account from overseas - I have received my Thai retirement visa on 2 separate occasions with no problems in regards to overseas transfers of money. I use a proof of income letter from the US Embassy to satisfy the income requirement. The letter from the Thai bank merely verifies the information from your passbook - - dates , account number, balance, etc.

 

The rules seem to change as often as the weather. Unfortunately, every time the rules change, someone comes up with something more absurd than the rules had been. Most of these changes end up on my "I Don't Get It" list. If all this is because they want some sort of proof that your income source is outside of Thailand, fine. I really don't see what difference it makes whether your money is coming from inside or outside of Thailand. Maybe you're lucky enough to have a sugar daddy giving you all your money right here in Thailand, which could easily mean that you've got plenty of money, but it all comes from within Thailand. Just because your money might be coming from within Thailand, that doesn't necessarily mean that you're working illegally in Thailand. Even if you are working illegally in Thailand, the usual Thai salary doesn't exactly generate enough income to keep the average "farang" living in the style to which he is accustomed.

 

Ok, they want a new proof-of-income statement from the embassy each year? Fine. I'll go to the embassy and get it. They want a letter from the bank? Fine. I'll go to the bank and get it. They want copies of ATM and/or credit cards? Fine, I'll give it to them. I don't know why they want these things and so far I have heard no stories about anyone giving their banking or credit card information to Immigration and then finding their accounts wiped, so I'm not afraid of giving them the information. When they come up with even more rules, I'll follow them. Different Immigration offices have different rules? Fine. I'll follow whatever rules they have.

 

All I ask is that they clarify what the rules actually are. I don't want to even try to get anyone at Immigration to explain the reasons for the rules. That's because no matter how many Immigration officers you ask, you'll get a different answer every time. You'll probably get a different answer even if you ask an Immigration officer to explain one day, and then go back and ask the same officer the same question the next day. The common denominator is that none of the answers will make sense anyhow.

 

Look at the bright side . . . it's only once a year.

 

[Bob]

Ok, a somewhat unrelated question but: What do you really have to show the US embassy to obtain the so-called proof of income letter. For somebody that's retired, you're not really earning income in the wage sense so, if you just show the embassy copies of investments (IRA accounts, mutual fund accounts, etc.), is that enough?

[Guest Hedda]

"What do you really have to show the US embassy to obtain the so-called proof of income letter. "

Nothing. The short form you fill out simply asks you to declare your monthly income with no details, questions, supporting information or documentation required.

[Guest fountainhall]

while in Thailand, I withdraw money from my US based account via an ATM and I deposit some of that money in my Siam Commerce account as needed. No money is ever deposited in my Thai bank account from overseas

 

Do you apply in Pattaya or Bangkok, buckeroo2?

 

Although here on a retirement visa, I still work outside the country. I buy quite a lot of things here using credit cards which bill me in HK$ and never appear on my Bangkok account. Having to remit 800,000 Bt. is therefore a real pain in the butt, even tho' it's only once a year.

 

Just because your money might be coming from within Thailand, that doesn't necessarily mean that you're working illegally in Thailand.

 

Totally agree, Gaybutton. What about people who are fully retired here and have some cash in the stock market or unit trusts. The market here grew 100% over 12 months a few years back. I understand that 'income' does not count towards the Bt. 800,000. even though it was generated from funds which originally had been remitted from overseas!

 

Last point. Surely there should be two rates for inward remittances - one for those who are renting accommodation and therefore must commit some part of their remittance in rent etc., and a lesser amount for those who actually own their accommodation? But I suppose this is an exercise in futility as the rules ain't gonna change.

[Bob]

Nothing. The short form you fill out simply asks you to declare your monthly income with no details, questions, supporting information or documentation required.

 

I was planning on just having 800,000+ baht in my account in Chiangmai but it would seem the easiest thing to do is just get the embassy letter. Sounds like they'll certify anything you say on the form.

 

Isn't this a very easy way for those without the necessary income or assets to get around the immigration rule in the first place? Or do you also have to show them a bank book with the income coming in per month (and/or the 800,000 baht)? Confusing.

[Gaybutton]

Isn't this a very easy way for those without the necessary income or assets to get around the immigration rule in the first place?

 

Yes it is, and that's what makes all these other rules, in my opinion, ridiculous. I can't speak for embassies other than the USA embassy, but all you have to do there is fill out the very short form, pay them their 1200 baht, and swear before a notary that you're telling the truth. That's all there is to it. They neither require nor ask for any documentation whatsoever other than your passport.

[Guest wowpow]

Presumably it is illegal to swear and get notified to something known to be untrue.

[Gaybutton]

Presumably it is illegal to swear and get notified to something known to be untrue.

 

Of course it is. So is riding on a motorcycle without a helmet. I'd be willing to bet there are plenty of people who swear to whatever income they want, whether it is true or not. I have yet to ever hear about anyone ever ending up in trouble over it.

[Guest Asmerom]

Of course it is. So is riding on a motorcycle without a helmet. I'd be willing to bet there are plenty of people who swear to whatever income they want, whether it is true or not. I have yet to ever hear about anyone ever ending up in trouble over it.

I must be very dense but even after reading all the messages in this thread I still don't know if ONE or BOTH the following are required :

a) Proof of Income.

b) Bank Deposit of 800,000 baht.

Can some understanding poster help?

Asmerom

[Gaybutton]

I must be very dense but even after reading all the messages in this thread I still don't know if ONE or BOTH the following are required :

a) Proof of Income.

B) Bank Deposit of 800,000 baht.

Can some understanding poster help?

Asmerom

 

It is one or the other, plus the letter from the bank (not more than one week old), valid passport, documentation that shows where you live and the address, your Thai bank account book (updated, preferably the same day), two passport photos with white background, copies (front and back) of your bank's ATM card or credit card, and a filled-out "Application for Extension of Temporary Stay in the Kingdom" (available at the information counter in the Pattaya Immigration office).

 

You can see a copy of the "Application for Extension of Temporary Stay in the Kingdom" form at http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?au...&showfile=7 . I suggest using the downloadable form for information purposes only. I don't know whether the Immigration office will accept it. Maybe they will, but you're probably better off filling out and original one that they give you at the Immigration office.

 

I suggest going to the little photo shop adjacent to the Immigration office first. They'll make sure you have all the necessary documentation, will make all the necessary copies for you, will make the passport photos for you if you don't already have them, and will make sure you are going in with everything you need, properly filled out.

 

Don't forget to dress properly. If you go in wearing a tank top and shorts, they'll send you home and refuse to provide service for you until you show up appropriately dressed.