Guest FourAces Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 WOW I feel like I am reading comments from the moral minority here. Since when is the use of the word boy translate to "pedophile?" Sounds as if some people here are uncomfortable with their own sexual preferences. And I won't mention any names but one lucky poster here has always had a long grudge about the word boy. Going back to that other site and how one described the "Asian boys" as "boys." Though I believe that lucky poster finally came to terms that it is a very common phrase associated with the Asian male. Boy Toy has been part of the gay slang for many decades. Does it mean twink? It can. But it can also mean man as well. It has no more alliance to young as Men For Rent as to old. Sometimes change can be good ... even healthy. If OZ and TY feel that MER needs a facelift and a name refresh to reach a larger audience then they should do it. After all how many times have several here complained about lack of reviews or posters??? More people hopefully will equal more participation. It also allows OZ to bring on new features that might not make sense under the current format. Regarding the logos none really blow me away however 57 and 124 do have some merit. Good luck OZ with the new site. I am certain I am not the only one excited to see what is to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lookin Posted July 21, 2012 Members Share Posted July 21, 2012 Despite the tantalizing hints, I'm not clear on the final vision OZ and TY have for the site. My guess is that it's more than a name change and a new logo. I expect there will be some advertising and promotions to significantly build traffic, which suggests that those who are here now will become a minority. If it works, and traffic increases tenfold, our opinions will become much less important than the opinions of the many new members. Whether we like the new site identity or not won't matter very much. We will not be the target audience for the new site. On the other hand, if traffic merely doubles, and many of today's stalwarts drift away, it may not be worth the effort to rebrand the site. And if new traffic doesn't double, the site may even become less populous than it is today. I'm sure OZ and TY have thought through the different scenarios and it will be interesting to see what happens. For me, the pleasure of being here has always revolved around the folks I'm likely to run into on a daily basis. That will continue to be more important than the logo at the top of the screen. As an outsider looking in, I'd be tempted to leave the site name as is and do a healthy slug of advertising just to see if it works. That way, I wouldn't run the old folks off until I was pretty sure I could bring some new folks in. Just a few random thoughts. Always fascinating to watch the marketing mavens ply their trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lurkerspeaks Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 what about something along the line of www.workingboys.com? would that satisfy people while still using the word "boy"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CharliePS Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 what about something along the line of www.workingboys.com? would that satisfy people while still using the word "boy"? The connotations of "workingboys" are more acceptable to me than "boytoy." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CharliePS Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 I agree with Lookin that Oz is probably thinking about more than just a new name and logo for the site, which would change the nature of this MB as well. If the other site's MB is like a huge banquet, this one is more like a dinner party, where I expect to encounter familiar acquaintances. I enjoy both kinds of meal, but banquets are more useful as fundraisers, and Oz may be tired of hosting dinner parties for the usual guests. Like many older folk, I don't adjust easily to change, but change may be good as well as bad, and in any case, it is inevitable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TampaYankee Posted July 21, 2012 Members Share Posted July 21, 2012 We appreciate your comments as always. You have given us a banquet for thought. We are mulling over your feedback. We take it to heart. As you know site participation has been limited to a smaller but very high quality group of steadfast individuals. We appreciate the loyalty and select nature of that group. As you also know we have tried earnestly to generate more interest and increased traffic for the site. When I say 'we' I include many of you who have participated over and above the usual effort and sought new blood as well. We thank you for that. Those efforts have been up and down but in the end never really achieved lasting success. So, if we haven't been able to attract more traffic with the present scheme it seemed the alternative was to broaden the site appeal in the hope of attracting a larger audience. The issue with that is how do we retain the flavor of the site while broadening it to include additional flavors that gay men would find attractive. Part of that has to do with first impressions and part with content. Thus we are looking for a name that would have broader interest appeal followed by additional content to augment the forums and escort information. Think of a cinema going from one screen to maybe two or three. The same genre of movies are still run on the original screen while maybe another screen is dedicated to a second genre and maybe a third etc. They all share a common lobby, in this case the forums. How to accomplish this without affecting the first screen requires choosing the other genres with careful planning. You have given us your feedback and we take it seriously. I don't quite know how this will end up yet but it is important to get your feedback along the way. If it was obvious then we would have done it long ago. So, please bear with us for now and continue the feedback as we continue this effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members citylaw1 Posted July 21, 2012 Members Share Posted July 21, 2012 what about something along the line of www.workingboys.com? would that satisfy people while still using the word "boy"? I like that name! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members axiom2001 Posted July 21, 2012 Members Share Posted July 21, 2012 wrong choice for a new name. the 'boy' thing is played out in gay circles and reads far too young for the variety of men who escort. don't be so inclusive with this re naming. the logo needs to not be as porn slick as this site. consider there are many who hire who don't want all of these pop up porn ads to litter their screen or have a gigantic cock flood the page the moment they surf here. Less is more. I like your take on this. The "boy" thing bothered me because I like men of a variety of ages, and as you mentioned, the escorts who advertise come in all ages, etc..... DO NOT LIMIT yourself. It'll cut down on traffic from a variety of angles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members citylaw1 Posted July 21, 2012 Members Share Posted July 21, 2012 We appreciate your comments as always. You have given us a banquet for thought. We are mulling over your feedback. We take it to heart. As you know site participation has been limited to a smaller but very high quality group of steadfast individuals. We appreciate the loyalty and select nature of that group. As you also know we have tried earnestly to generate more interest and increased traffic for the site. When I say 'we' I include many of you who have participated over and above the usual effort and sought new blood as well. We thank you for that. Those efforts have been up and down but in the end never really achieved lasting success. So, if we haven't been able to attract more traffic with the present scheme it seemed the alternative was to broaden the site appeal in the hope of attracting a larger audience. The issue with that is how do we retain the flavor of the site while broadening it to include additional flavors that gay men would find attractive. Part of that has to do with first impressions and part with content. Thus we are looking for a name that would have broader interest appeal followed by additional content to augment the forums and escort information. Think of a cinema going from one screen to maybe two or three. The same genre of movies are still run on the original screen while maybe another screen is dedicated to a second genre and maybe a third etc. They all share a common lobby, in this case the forums. How to accomplish this without affecting the first screen requires choosing the other genres with careful planning. You have given us your feedback and we take it seriously. I don't quite know how this will end up yet but it is important to get your feedback along the way. If it was obvious then we would have done it long ago. So, please bear with us for now and continue the feedback as we continue this effort. I commend your efforts here. Actually listening to the members is the first step. Have you considered a big party with the escorts as the main attraction? I think that increased escort participation will go a long way towards increasing traffic. How to fund this is certainly a separate conversation. I really like the "workingboys.com" angle better than the Boy Toy name. I'm not concerned about ISP issues, etc., but, this may exclude the older escorts? That being said, a site that attracts younger users might be a good idea. The lack of escort reviews is probably related to the lack of mobility issues. When I started with Hooboy I was like 30ish. I really think the days of younger participants has stalled or even ended. The Erik McCalisters, Adler in his day, etc., added flavor the the site. I also remember younger contributors, as well as more controversy. The "alerts" and "banning" have made any real discussions or an occasional argument impossible. Woodlawn, Doug69, Erik McCalister, Glutes, and many more have disappeared, and I'll probably be next. There are many on here and Daddy's that applaud banning and censorship. Clearly they are in the outspoken minority, in that all of the controversial closed and banned threads are ALWAYS the most popular. A few examples of what I believe was a more interesting time: http://www.message-f...9282#post389282 http://www.message-f...8670#post388670 http://www.message-f...7435#post387435 http://www.message-f...1315#post501315 http://www.message-f...1580#post381580 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members citylaw1 Posted July 21, 2012 Members Share Posted July 21, 2012 One escort cried in front of me because he hated clients treating him as a piece of meat. Let's respect service providers. Walmart might be more rewarding? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members citylaw1 Posted July 21, 2012 Members Share Posted July 21, 2012 Jim, if you think we are not listening, you don't know us very well. However, we must get more traffic to the site. It needs a chance to move to the next level. A name like boytoy is fabulous and will open the site up to a bigger audience. IMHO, for those that are offended by the use of boy, I wonder if they use rentboy? Or, do they avoid that site? What about a site called son's guys? If one would go to a site called Daddy's Review, why not Son's? Then, if you ok with Son's, why not boy? Just curious. Seriously, I am trying to understand the issue with the word boy. It is a pretty common term in the gay community from rentboys to boytoys to boysnextdoor etc. I still prefer workingboys.com, but I totally understand your logic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members citylaw1 Posted July 21, 2012 Members Share Posted July 21, 2012 A prime example of over regulating and deadening interesting participation. Simply moving a thread to control something: http://www.message-f...9742#post809742 Killing a thread because you want to kiss up to a wrongdoer: http://www.message-forum.net/showthread.php?88434-Im-back!&p=808954#post808954 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest EXPAT Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 A few examples of what I believe was a more interesting time: http://www.message-f...9282#post389282 http://www.message-f...8670#post388670 http://www.message-f...7435#post387435 http://www.message-f...1315#post501315 http://www.message-f...1580#post381580 Really? I would have no interesting in reading or responding to any of those threads. I would leave a site that had a lot of that. Oh, wait, I did leave Daddy's site just because of those type of threads. They are just back and forth crap that means nothing in reality other than a waste of time. IMO of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lurkerspeaks Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 ok. ok.. to take my "workingboys" idea a step further.. it could be an "all encompassing" site for escorts.. could have a profiles section for paid profiles such as rentboy, a review section for reviews.. a forum section for discussions. That way, by having the paid profiles on the same site as the forum, it MIGHT get more escorts to participate in the forum discussions. In fact, maybe make it as part of the escort profile signup that they HAVE to signup for the forums. Granted, many/most might not use the forums, but if we get a few to use it,then it has done the trick (so to speak) Along with the paid escort profiles, how about a section where club/sauna owners could have/update ads for stripclubs/saunas/boybars, etc around the world.. ads there would be taken out on a monthly or bi-monthly time to ensure they are kept current and updated. Ok...who else has ideas to compliment MY idea??? or TY and OZ, should I just put something in my mouth to keep me from talking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotallyOz Posted July 21, 2012 Author Share Posted July 21, 2012 I appreciate all the ideas and suggestions. The site has never made me money. It is a passion for me. Every penny I have made from it I put back into the site for advertising, contests, etc. The change is not for making more money (though that would be nice) it is for getting a bigger audience and more participation. Participation needs to come from escorts, clients, forum posters and other readers. You can’t run a successful site from some great forum members or just with some great escorts or just with good reviews. As we have seen, the reviews are not what they were years ago. Few come in and I refuse to go the route of writing 3 or 4 bullshit reviews of a few sentences myself every day just to make the escorts happy they got a review or to trick members into thinking a review was submitted. Yes, I know other sites do this but it has not happened here and it never will. Instead, we have tried to concentrate on high quality real reviews from real clients. We have been loosing that battle over the years. The site needs a shot of participants not just in the forums but also from escorts posting profiles and reviewers posting reviews. To do this, it will take more than just a rebuild of the site. I can do that and TY and I had talked about this for a while. But, we have also had ads on LA and NYC magazines, which a great deal of money was spent with limited if any results. If I thought that advertising would solve the problem, I would happily dip into my retirement fund to do this. It might work for a short time but at the rates the magazines charge; it won’t last long if the site doesn’t bring in revenue to pay for them. I can’t keep dipping into my own pocket for this site. Years ago, I wanted to change the name to Hooboy.com and one long time poster go very upset and thought I was defaming Daddy by doing this. (Something I thought was comical, as the two have nothing to do with each other.) Since then, we just tried to make some contests and we did advertise for a while in order to get more participation and it did not work. Very recently, I got an offer to buy boytoy.com and this was while TY and I were still discussing the direction for the site. Before that, we were going to name the site CList.com and make its primary focus on listing places and escorts. Ex. Top 10 bars in Rio or Top 10 Bottom Escorts in USA. When boytoy came open for purchase (not a cheap amount). I jumped at it. I will use the name to make money. It is easy to do with a name like boytoy and I honestly believed that everyone would love the name. The fact they don’t has really thrown me for a loop that I was not expecting. Does that mean I have abandoned the idea? No, it doesn’t. I will use the name for a site and it is such an amazing name that it will be successful. There is another site called houseboy.com that has tons of houseboys that I thought would be perfect to combine with this site. My thought was to make profiles for: escorts, houseboys, boytoys, clients and just forum users. So, yes, I wanted to greatly expand the base and make it a much more interactive site with many more users and posters and admirers of men. We had worked on incorporating a major addition to the forums, which would have listings for all cities around the world and let all gay owned or gay friendly business post their information. We also wanted to do reviews of other gay websites and have talked to professional writers and porn people that were willing to help us get started in this. So, basically I wanted to create a massive site that everyone on this forum would love, as the major complaint I get is that the forums are slow or not enough people are posting. Yet, whenever I try to do something to improve this, like the recent contest, I get people upset and threating to leave, quite posting, etc. It seems to be a cycle that is consistent every time I try to make some changes, which I think, will improve the site. I do not blame anyone for this. It is just the way it seems to be. Names are not as easy as many of you may think. I pay great amounts of money for good names and often times upwards of 100k for most great names. I do believe that this site really needs a good name. I am just not sure that Male Escort Review is a name that will bring in escorts (esp. those that don’t want to be reviewed) or escorts who don’t want to be associated with a site that has escort in its name. Yes, escorts have told me that both of the above are reasons they don’t want to be on the site. Suggestions like workingboys.com are great. But, it has been taken since 2003 as most domain names that have any meaning are. I know this as I buy names every day of the week. I have bought literally thousands of these names over the years and it is VERY rare to ever find a name that is a common term that is available. So, trying to use boytoy was simply for me a way to put more of my money into a site that I love and I want to be successful. It really saddens me that many think that the name brings up connotations of pedophilia. I just don’t understand and perhaps part of that is my belief in the sexual revolution of gay men being able to do what they want with other consenting adults without judgments. I do not judge a drag queen as less than an escort or a person that calls himself a twink less than someone that likes to get pissed on. I guess I am just too liberal and open-minded. I also guess part of my background in calling the boys that live with me in Thailand boyfriends and “boys” also makes some wonder why I use that term. Both of them are over 27 and some on this board don’t understand why I call them boys. As I met Lucky’s boyfriend a few times, I would also describe him as a boy and he is close to my age. The term for me is just something I use for someone younger than me or even sometimes someone older than me. I even use the term for my friend Firecat on occasion and he is a bit older than me. I guess I just don't relate the term "boy" in the way some of you do. I am not upset at all with this discussion and I do truly value and appreciate all comments and suggestions. I assure you, we will try our best not to hurt or offend anyone with anything we do and I am glad many of you are participating in this discussion. With that said, it seems like many do not want a change at all. If that is the case, please tell me a way that I can get the site to the next level without me spending more money that I won’t recover. I do not mind spending money if I think that somewhere down the line there is a possibility of recovery. We value each and every one of you! We appreciate all you do for the site and for this community! And, we appreciate your comments about this or anything else we do on the site. We are a community and we do not just willy-nilly make changes that will offend people and alienate the community. That is one of the main reasons I said in my first post, we are considering a name change but nothing has been decided. Please continue to give your input and advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lucky Posted July 21, 2012 Members Share Posted July 21, 2012 Oz, that's a very informative post. It shows both that you are listening to the guys here, and also how hard you have been working on the site. I appreciate it, and hope that your efforts bring good results. I had not realized how much work was involved. As a side note, the bf just turned 52. Yes, he was a boy- the cutest one in town-when we met almost 30 years ago, and I doubt that he would mind being referred to as a boy now! Well, as long as it was said with affection! citylaw1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members citylaw1 Posted July 21, 2012 Members Share Posted July 21, 2012 Oh, wait, I did leave Daddy's site just because of those type of threads. They are just back and forth crap that means nothing in reality other than a waste of time. Didn't you just post on Daddy's 3 hours ago? Forgive me in advance if I have you confused with another EXPAT from Los Angeles.: http://www.message-f...8809#post808809 Total Posts Total Posts 1,752 Posts Per Day 0.11 General Information Last Activity 2 Hours Ago Join Date 12-31-1969 Referrals 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CharliePS Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Oz, I appreciate your explanation of what you would like to do, and why. I have almost nothing invested in this site, since the only use I make of it is to read a couple of the fora and occasionally post in them; therefore, I have no interest in change, whereas you have an understandable desire for it. If things work out as you expect them to, it will be a very different site, and I hope that it is successful for you. But we have very different feelings about the title you have--for good reasons--proposed, and I hope you understand that my unwillingness to participate in that site has nothing to do with my personal feelings about you and TY, whom I continue to like and respect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members xenophile Posted July 21, 2012 Members Share Posted July 21, 2012 I'm just a mostly-lurker and occasional poster, but count me squarely in the anti "boy" name camp, I'm really so fucking tired of the whole youth-worship gay ethos, 32+ y/o "bois", and while I don't associate it with pedophilia (that's manufactured outrage worthy of our jackass politicos) pandering to that side of gay taste still seems somewhat craven and cheap. I'll certainly stick around no matter what, there are all of 2 male escort forums to choose from, after all, and this is my favorite discussion topic. Curses be, that there is such a vast disparity between male and female escort sites. I have no dog in this fight, and as someone said there's rentboy, hourboy, boys2rent, justusboys and hundreds of "boy" sites of every stripe, all the good names are taken, please don't stoop to some nonsense like boyz4ritenow, you may have to shell out a bit for a quality name (or pull a good one from your squatter's horde...). The current name is all about "review"s so hopefully something a bit more generic and welcoming, I vote for "men", some rentmen variant would be my favorite sweet spot. Have some of those creative Indian brainiacs suggest a few, some worthy witty wording would be awesome! Good luck with the search! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TampaYankee Posted July 22, 2012 Members Share Posted July 22, 2012 The lack of escort reviews is probably related to the lack of mobility issues. When I started with Hooboy I was like 30ish. I really think the days of younger participants has stalled or even ended. The Erik McCalisters, Adler in his day, etc., added flavor the the site. I also remember younger contributors, as well as more controversy. The "alerts" and "banning" have made any real discussions or an occasional argument impossible. Woodlawn, Doug69, Erik McCalister, Glutes, and many more have disappeared, and I'll probably be next. There are many on here and Daddy's that applaud banning and censorship. Clearly they are in the outspoken minority, in that all of the controversial closed and banned threads are ALWAYS the most popular. Cityline1, daresay no one knows Doug 69 and Woodlawn, who was Regulation before that and had alteregos like Pickwick to name one, better than me. Anyone who was around HooBoy's in those days knows that. I engaged each in several very tough, sharp exchanges during those years. Those exchanges were exciting in a way that a knife fight is exciting. However, we did not tend to wallow in name calling, we engaged sharp back and forth of views based on fact and opinion that sought to discredit the opponent's argument and its intellectual underpinning. There was little quarter given. Not that I was the only one, there were several others, as well, that contributed to the mix, including an escort in that time who was as intellectually and argumentatively challenging as anyone I recall participating on the boards -- I fail to recall his name now. And yes there were a number of very sharp escorts who participated on the boards from time to time. Not many but a few who were particularly resilient in their egos, attitudes, and feeling of security. Most would not submit themselves to the controversy, and often abuse, because they felt it affected their livelihood. We do not ban such discussion as long as it remains in forum policy bounds. We ban agendas and stalkers and never-ending gratuitous cheap shots. Some may find that interesting but usually not the targets and usually not me. I got over playground taunts a while back. So bring on the intellectual exchanges with sharp edges if you can find someone with the passion to join the fray but please don't stir up passions with cheap name calling that goes nowhere else. I'm not singling you out as an example, only using you as a rhetorical device to make my point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CharliePS Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Cityline1, daresay no one knows Doug 69 and Woodlawn, who was Regulation before that and had alteregos like Pickwick to name one, better than me. Anyone who was around HooBoy's in those days knows that. I engaged each in several very tough, sharp exchanges during those years. Those exchanges were exciting in a way that a knife fight is exciting. However, we did not tend to wallow in name calling, LOL. TY, I think your memory is getting a bit fuzzy. Don't you recall regulation's screaming names at people who contradicted him, until his eventual hysterical breakdown online in which he called me every obcenity he could think of? He disappeared for a little after that, and then returned as woodlawn and avoided any interaction with me. I believe the escort you remember was Ethan from DC, who paraded his intellect as proudly as his enormous cock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest EXPAT Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Didn't you just post on Daddy's 3 hours ago? Forgive me in advance if I have you confused with another EXPAT from Los Angeles.: http://www.message-f...8809#post808809 Total Posts Total Posts 1,752 Posts Per Day 0.11 General Information Last Activity 2 Hours Ago Join Date 12-31-1969 Referrals 1 That was three days ago and it was one of only 3 or 4 posts I've made in 2 years since I left. I went on earlier today just to look because you had mentioned that Scott Adler had returned and I was curious what he had to say now. But in general I no longer choose or want to post on that site. I think the dialog is very unhealthy and frankly doesn't interest me. And the post that I responded to that you linked above was about a play coming to LA that I would be interested in seeing since I was unaware of it. And just because the blocked threads are the most popular doesn't make it a healthy discussion or one that someone should participate in. . .especially me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest FourAces Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 OZ I have never seen a site owner explain in such detail their plans to expand the site ... while trying to please everyone ... it was painful to read. You have been very successful in your Internet ventures. I understand that this site means more to you than a pay check. That you really want to make it special ... no make it spectacular. So with all respect to everybody involved my strong suggestion is to go with your plans do not let a few hold back the growth of this site any longer. The Internet moves on and so should MER / BoyToy / FourAces Site or whatever you shall name it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest EXPAT Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 I agree. Do what you must. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hitoallusa Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Actually I like Four Aces.. What about Four Aces Review... OZ I have never seen a site owner explain in such detail their plans to expand the site ... while trying to please everyone ... it was painful to read. You have been very successful in your Internet ventures. I understand that this site means more to you than a pay check. That you really want to make it special ... no make it spectacular. So with all respect to everybody involved my strong suggestion is to go with your plans do not let a few hold back the growth of this site any longer. The Internet moves on and so should MER / BoyToy / FourAces Site or whatever you shall name it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
