Haven for paedophiles

[Guest tdperhs]

A former deputy police chief in the Los Angeles Police Department was accused of sexually molesting two boy scouts over thirty years ago. The boys filed suit against LAPD and the Boy Scouts of America. The judge threw the case out because of the time lapse. However, significant to petitioners' argument was the claim that LAPD had ignored several signs that should have set off alarms:

 

"Lawsuits by the alleged victims contended it was "commonly known" that Kalish traveled to Thailand, "a known haven for pedophiles," that officers saw Kalish in Thailand with a young Thai boy, that both the Scouts and the police knew of past sexual abuse in the program, and that they knew or should have known that Kalish associated with a known pornographer and improperly fraternized with some of the boys."

 

For the rest of the story see:

 

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-la...2&cset=true

 

It got me thinking that, being a teacher, discussing my many trips to Thailand might not be prudent. Of course, those events happened in the 1970s and many discussions on these forums seem to indicate that that attitude about the Thailand of that era was not unjustified. In fact many of the recent threads would lend support to that belief even today. So, I think from now on, I will enjoy my trips and keep them to myself. No one's going to want to hear, "I go to Thailand on religious retreats (not wholly untrue) and my relationships are only with adults." People will believe only what they want to believe.

 

[Gaybutton]

My reaction to that is it doesn't matter what people believe about you or say about you. The only one who really knows the truth about you is you. People are gossips. People enjoy talking about others, but usually aren't so thrilled when they find the object of discussion is themselves. A great many people come to Thailand who are not in Thailand for sex or bars. A great many people also come to Thailand for precisely that. I don't think anyone is owed an explanation for your reasons for wanting to be in Thailand. It's none of their business anyhow. If they want to believe you go to Thailand for reasons they think are negative, then that's their problem, not yours.

 

That's my opinion, anyway.

[Guest buaseng]

I don't think anyone is owed an explanation for your reasons for wanting to be in Thailand. It's none of their business anyhow. If they want to believe you go to Thailand for reasons they think are negative, then that's their problem, not yours.

 

That's my opinion, anyway.

It is your problem if you are a teacher, work with young people or are in a 'sensitive' position where vetting procedures apply. Hiding one's head in the sand and refusing to acknowledge the reputation that Thailand has in the wider world is just plain foolish.

 

If I were a teacher or someone working with young people I would definitely adopt a 'don't ask, don't tell' philosophy. As the old saying goes 'mud sticks' and your livelihood could be in jeopardy.

 

GB is of course entitled to his opinion.

[Gaybutton]

GB is of course entitled to his opinion.

 

Well, I certainly appreciate that.

 

My opinion remains the same, however. You don't have to go to Thailand for people to think you're gay, a pedophile, or whatever else negative they choose to think. I don't see it as hiding one's head in the sand. I see it as 'think whatever you want and I couldn't care less. Maybe you ought to wonder what I'm thinking about you.'

[Guest buaseng]

You don't have to go to Thailand for people to think you're gay, a pedophile, or whatever else negative they choose to think. I don't see it as hiding one's head in the sand. I see it as 'think whatever you want and I couldn't care less. Maybe you ought to wonder what I'm thinking about you.'

I think you miss the point I am trying to make. It is all very well to have the 'I don't care less attitude' if what other people think of you because of your trips to Thailand is not likely to affect your job or your suitability, in their eyes, for having any sort of official position in the schooling or care of young people. And, sadly but for sure, declaring visits to Thailand can leave you open to innuendo and enhanced scrutiny because of the reputation that Thailand has as a paradise for sex tourists, especially those looking for the under-age variety.

 

The same applies if your job requires you to pass security vetting procedures where being gay could leave you, as officialdom would see it, open to blackmail and vetting clearance would therefore be denied resulting in a loss of livelihood - I was in this position for most of my working life and I was therefore most definately in the closet for all those years as a result. In this respect maybe things in the US are different but in the UK being gay definately meant that it was impossible to have a job in any form of Government security or communications or in a company connected with Government contracts of a sensitive or military nature, unless you were firmly in the closet and you closely guarded your private life within your circle of 'normal' friends and work colleagues.

 

In a Utopian world an 'I don't care less attitude' would be admirable but the world is not like that and in some walks of life one has to conform to standards which officialdom and other people set, however abhorrent those standards may be to those of us who are gay.

 

We will have to agree to differ on this subject.

[2lz2p]

The same applies if your job requires you to pass security vetting procedures where being gay could leave you, as officialdom would see it, open to blackmail and vetting clearance would therefore be denied resulting in a loss of livelihood - I was in this position for most of my working life and I was therefore most definately in the closet for all those years as a result. In this respect maybe things in the US are different but in the UK being gay definately meant that it was impossible to have a job in any form of Government security or communications or in a company connected with Government contracts of a sensitive or military nature, unless you were firmly in the closet and you closely guarded your private life within your circle of 'normal' friends and work colleagues.

 

I also held a sensitive position with a US Federal Agency. This position was subject to an initial background investigation (1972) and subsequent investigations every 5 years with the last one being just before I retired. Yes, I too was buried deep in the closet for the same reasons. However, President Bill Clinton issued two Executive Orders that prohibited discrimination based on sexual orientation - access to classified information (No. 12968, August 1995) and in employment in the Federal Civil Service (No. 11478, May 1998).

 

Although these two orders technically eliminated being gay as a bar to being employed by the Federal government or being denied a security clearance, we do have to live in the real world. I deemed staying in the closet was necessary in my circumstances.

 

Now, to the issue of this thread - being known as a frequent visitor to Thailand. For me, it had no adverse impact on me or my comfortable place in the closet. I made my first visit in 1985. Although gay venues were not numerous I found Thailand and the boys here to be wonderful. I continued to visit annually until 1992 when I increased it to twice a year (yes, I had found "the one" and yes, if interested, we are still together). Anyway, my trips were certainly something I could not "keep to myself," even if I wanted to. Prior to each background investigation, I had to list the dates and location for each time I ventured outside the USA. Although my form showed all my trips, the different "Investigators" conducting my interviews never raised the subject of why I visited Thailand (yes, they did knock on my neighbors doors to inquire if I had wild parties, etc.).

 

Personally, I think it is up to the individual and their own set of circumstances as to whether they want others to know they frequent Thailand. I can see why with the most recent international publicity about Thailand and Pattaya, someone would have reservations about disclosing their visits. So again, my feelings on the subject go with that well used phrase - "Up to you!"