Guest FourAces Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Hey guys if you want to take a look inside Foxcon China check out tomorrows Nightline. Its the first time Apple has allowed an American TV crew inside. Preview here, http://abcnews.go.com/International/trip-ifactory-nightline-unprecedented-glimpse-inside-apples-chinese/story?id=15748745#.T0JCGUrk-PU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest EXPAT Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 And as I understand it many companies use Foxconn and not just Apple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JKane Posted February 21, 2012 Members Share Posted February 21, 2012 That is very true, but I'm pretty sure it's fair to say they make the most profit off those workers' misery. And for a company that fucking had Pixar create the 'fur' texture for the photos on their software boxes *so NO animals were exploited!* the continued relationship is most at odds with what their customers *like* to think of themselves and their favorite company! But hey, they don't have enough money to do right by their workers, clearly. Foreign or domestic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest EXPAT Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 That is very true, but I'm pretty sure it's fair to say they make the most profit off those workers' misery. And for a company that fucking had Pixar create the 'fur' texture for the photos on their software boxes *so NO animals were exploited!* the continued relationship is most at odds with what their customers *like* to think of themselves and their favorite company! But hey, they don't have enough money to do right by their workers, clearly. Foreign or domestic. The problem with these stories about China is that every single company in China is like this. They have very few labor laws which is why every American company has flocked there because they don't seem to care about employee rights or doing what's right. This is across the board in China not just by one or two companies. And in this case this company isn't even owned by an American company which makes the situation much worse. It's better when an American company puts manufacturing there because their policies tend to move with the company to China so the situation is much better. And as long as their really aren't many labor laws in China, we will continue to hear stories about this because there is no employee legal recourse and people want to earn a living. And while the Republicans love a capitalistic free market, we really aren't in a free market when the rules / laws are so different country by country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JKane Posted February 21, 2012 Members Share Posted February 21, 2012 Yeah, but it seems to me if you're a company like Apple likes to pretend it is you pull a Henry Ford! Pay workers a living wage so they can afford to buy your product. Especially helpful in breaking the precious Chinese market wide open! And you become the employer of choice. Sure, conditions are shit everywhere in that hellhole, but you could become the place with workers dedicated for life, with much lower turnover, recruiting or training expenses than competitors. Or... you could make your workers so fucking miserable they throw themselves from your rooftops--for a couple more bucks profit per unit. The choice is Apple's to make and they've made it. And everyone smaller and without Apple's rabid niche following gets locked into that same path, because they do have to compete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lookin Posted February 21, 2012 Members Share Posted February 21, 2012 Far be it from me to get between you and your opinions of Apple, but I did hear yesterday that Apple agreed in January to support independent environmental reviews of at least two of its Chinese suppliers. These reviews will begin in March and are in addition to Apple's own supplier reviews. When the reporter asked a customer leaving an Apple store how she felt about paying $25 more for an Apple product if it would lead to better working conditions in China, she said she'd be glad to. According to this article, Adidas, Nike, and Patagonia also conduct such independent reviews. It seems to me that customers of these high-end brands would have less difficulty paying a premium if it resulted in better labor practices in China. It's not clear, to me anyway, how such price premiums would affect companies like Wal-Mart who are after every possible penny of savings. It could certainly cause a change in their business model. Parenthetically, I recall that Wal-Mart once prided itself on selling only products made in the USA, but that was quite some time ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest EXPAT Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Yeah, but it seems to me if you're a company like Apple likes to pretend it is you pull a Henry Ford! Pay workers a living wage so they can afford to buy your product. Especially helpful in breaking the precious Chinese market wide open! And you become the employer of choice. Sure, conditions are shit everywhere in that hellhole, but you could become the place with workers dedicated for life, with much lower turnover, recruiting or training expenses than competitors. Or... you could make your workers so fucking miserable they throw themselves from your rooftops--for a couple more bucks profit per unit. The choice is Apple's to make and they've made it. And everyone smaller and without Apple's rabid niche following gets locked into that same path, because they do have to compete. It's not quite as simple as you assume. You can't just change the benefits and compensation at your whim in China. You could do that here and of course that is most American's perspective. But having supported a manufacturing operation in China, please believe me that Apple just can't do what ever it wants. It's far far more complicated including involving the government in decisions so that other companies will not be slighted and create an imbalance. So whatever you think should be done may not be able to be done as simply as you would like. Having experienced it directly you have to be very knowledgable about the local political rules to understand. And what's worse in this case is that these companies are not even Apples to begin with. At least in my experience, my company had more than a 50% share in the manufacturing operation so we could make some cosmetic changes easier than I suspect Apple can do in this case. I suspect that they will look to change that over time. But explosive growth requires partnering in countries like China. I only ask that you not assume that things there are as simple as they might be here to change, because they aren't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest FourAces Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 For those who might be interested you can watch the Nightline broadcast http://abc.go.com/watch/nightline/SH5584743/VD55173552/nightline-221-apples-chinese-factories-exclusive It was both fascinating and quite sobering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hitoallusa Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Well I hope working conditions in China get better. Apple doesn't have to increase the price to improve the condition there and they can cover it with taxes they have not paid. I love innovation and growth but I really doubt these greedy people are happy with what they are doing. They are not happy so they get into drugs and all sorts of bad things. I don't think we are any better than our ancestors. We can look like we are better at the expense of others. These days our environment is suffering for the advancement of human rights. I am not saying that growth is bad but want to put things in perspective that people should know there is trade off and if you are too greedy then someone has to eventually suffer. I hope the advancement of technology leads to better treatment of our environment too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
