College to Ask About Sexual Orientation

[OneFinger]

Elmhurst College put a question on its admissions application that won’t appear on any other school's application.

"Would you consider yourself to be a member of the LGBT (lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgendered) community?”

That optional question makes Elmhurst the first school in the country to ask applicants about their sexual orientation or gender identity, the Chicago Sun-Times reports.

Full Article

So, would you answer that question on a college application? Is it really any of their business?

[Guest hitoallusa]

Well I think the university's intent is to figure out its student demographics so they can better serve their students. They might consider opening a course on gay issues or organize university activities to help minority students. I don't think they mean any harm. If someone asks me and I will answer it. I am a proud member MER (Most Esteemed Reviews). I don't want to be kicked out of the school even before I go to my first class.

Elmhurst College put a question on its admissions application that won’t appear on any other school's application.

"Would you consider yourself to be a member of the LGBT (lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgendered) community?”

That optional question makes Elmhurst the first school in the country to ask applicants about their sexual orientation or gender identity, the Chicago Sun-Times reports.

Full Article

So, would you answer that question on a college application? Is it really any of their business?

[TotallyOz]

I would have not problem with this question if it was from a good liberal arts school which I knew did not discriminate. However, I don't think I would answer this question honestly at most schools in the South. Regardless of how many gay and lesbian groups there are on campuses, there are still bigots and racists in the administration and it only takes one to see an application and put it in the denied list.

[Guest hitoallusa]

Well college admission is a group decision. It is not decided by one person. Schools in the South has a good system in place to prevent discriminate against minorities.

I would have not problem with this question if it was from a good liberal arts school which I knew did not discriminate. However, I don't think I would answer this question honestly at most schools in the South. Regardless of how many gay and lesbian groups there are on campuses, there are still bigots and racists in the administration and it only takes one to see an application and put it in the denied list.

[TotallyOz]

Well college admission is a group decision. It is not decided by one person. Schools in the South has a good system in place to prevent discriminate against minorities.

You don't think one admin can deny an applicant? If you answer that question that one administrator cannot derail an application, I'd suggest you ask a few people in higher education.

[Guest hitoallusa]

It's a group decision. No one administrator has an authority to do that without other people noticing it.

You don't think one admin can deny an applicant? If you answer that question that one administrator cannot derail an application, I'd suggest you ask a few people in higher education.

[marcanthony]

It's a group decision. No one administrator has an authority to do that without other people noticing it.

Without a doubt, one person can derail an application. They may not have the "authority", but I can guarantee you it is commonplace.

[Guest hitoallusa]

Yes one person can derail an application as much as one can get into a car accident in a life time. I'm not being confrontational here. I am trying to defend hard working southern college officials who strive to create a friendly environment for students to learn and grow. I have personally witnessed that. No professional administrator will do that. I have faith in the system, although it's not perfect but it doesn't happen a lot as you claim. It's a group decision based on a set of criteria.

Without a doubt, one person can derail an application. They may not have the "authority", but I can guarantee you it is commonplace.

[Guest CharliePS]

Elmhurst is a small private college in the Chicago suburbs. Two-thirds of the students are women, and if I remember correctly from my youth, it used to be an all-female college. It is affiliated with the liberal United Church of Christ, but I think it was originally affiliated with one of the more conservative Protestant denominations that were absorbed into the UCC in the 1950s and 60s. It has never had a strong academic reputation. A majority of the students major in business or education. I wonder if someone in the marketing curriculum came up with this as a way to raise their profile for recruiting students.

[Guest hitoallusa]

That's a good possibility why they put the question in their application form.

A majority of the students major in business or education. I wonder if someone in the marketing curriculum came up with this as a way to raise their profile for recruiting students.

[TotallyOz]

I went to one of the 7 Sister schools. It turned coed the year I started and was one of less than 20 males in the school for over a year. The college was east coast liberal and I would not hesitate putting that I was gay on my application (but I wasn't open back then). However, I know too many college administrators and I just got off the phone with 2 of them and they both said that if you go high enough up the food chain, that an admin most certainly can detail any admission decision.

[marcanthony]

Yes one person can derail an application as much as one can get into a car accident in a life time. I'm not being confrontational here.

I completely agree you are not being confrontational, but I do believe you are being naive (and wrong LOL)

[Guest hitoallusa]

They can detail any admission decision based on a set of criteria. They will not reject someone for being gay. It can happen but it's not a common practice and it's highly discouraged. If your statement about racists and bigots is correct then there should be no african americans in southern colleges. My former computer guy was gay and everybody loved him. Things are different in the South now.

I went to one of the 7 Sister schools. It turned coed the year I started and was one of less than 20 males in the school for over a year. The college was east coast liberal and I would not hesitate putting that I was gay on my application (but I wasn't open back then). However, I know too many college administrators and I just got off the phone with 2 of them and they both said that if you go high enough up the food chain, that an admin most certainly can detail any admission decision.

[TampaYankee]

Well I think the university's intent is to figure out its student demographics so they can better serve their students. They might consider opening a course on gay issues or organize university activities to help minority students. I don't think they mean any harm.

I think your view would be more credible if they were polling students not applicants.

If they are seeking to recruit gay students then they should say so on their application along with other minorities they actively seek. If not then they should not inquire at all.

Also, often it is quite easy for a single adminstrator with clout to deny admission. Any college worth attending has many more applicants that slots available. If the administrator finds it undesirable to outright veto an admission on his own then it is quite easy to steer an admission away from one student to another based on any number of tangible and intangible considerations.

[Guest hitoallusa]

But once again, it is done within a certain set of valid criteria. They will not deny a student based on sexual orientation. If it happens, It will be an isolated incident. Student body leaders also participate in the selection process and monitor how it works. It is an open system and I don't clearly understand why some people here think a single administrator can out weigh a committee consisted of at least 10 people. Even student leaders participate in the process and if they have problems with it they can go to the board of governors. Are we talking about the accredited US schools here? I am pretty sure. Either I am insane or really ignorant. Maybe both. Can anyone privately email me the name of the school where a single administrator can outweigh a committee's decision? If it is a good school then they seek talented students because in the long run it helps the school. That's why they offer scholarships to those extreme smart people to come to their college. One's sexual orientation doesn't never matter at all and one single administrator can't simply goes against the committee monitored by students and faculties. If you work at a college where a single administrator can do that then the school is not competitive and it's future is dim.

Also, often it is quite easy for a single adminstrator with clout to deny admission. Any college worth attending has many more applicants that slots available. If the administrator finds it undesirable to outright veto an admission on his own then it is quite easy to steer an admission away from one student to another based on any number of tangible and intangible considerations.

[Guest CharliePS]

I recently had an interesting conversation with a kid who was accepted at a small conservative religious college in Pennsylvania, without a personal interview, because he had an excellent academic record and his father was a respected banker. The kid could be spotted as light in his shoes from quite a distance. Once he was in, they simply made his college experience uncomfortable enough that he transferred out as soon as he could. Although I don't know if he would have answered the question if he had been asked on the application form, it could have saved him from a wasted year.

I doubt that Elmhurst is trying to avoid gay students. More likely, they are looking for free publicity, and being the first school to do something controversial is a way to get their name in front of potential students who might otherwise never have heard of them.

[Guest CharliePS]

But once again, it is done within a certain set of valid criteria. They will not deny a student based on sexual orientation. If it happens, It will be an isolated incident. Student body leaders also participate in the selection process and monitor how it works. It is an open system and I don't clearly understand why some people here think a single administrator can out weigh a committee consisted of at least 10 people. Even student leaders participate in the process and if they have problems with it they can go to the board of governors. Are we talking about the accredited US schools here? I am pretty sure. Either I am insane or really ignorant. Maybe both. Can anyone privately email me the name of the school where a single administrator can outweigh a committee's decision? If it is a good school then they seek talented students because in the long run it helps the school. That's why they offer scholarships to those extreme smart people to come to their college. One's sexual orientation doesn't never matter at all and one single administrator can't simply goes against the committee monitored by students and faculties. If you work at a college where a single administrator can do that then the school is not competitive and it's future is dim.

Having been involved in the academic world for many years, I am well aware of the disconnect between the formal structure of committees, principles, rules, procedures, etc., and what can actually happen when an administrator wants to ignore them for some reason. I have served on hiring committees that have rejected job applicants, only to have an administrator offer legally binding contracts to the applicants anyway, even though they didn't meet the specific criteria in the job description. I have also seen a highly recommended candidate turned down solely because a powerful board member learned she had a female partner. I have seen end runs around stated goals because the administrator had an unstated goal. I have seen committee members or lower level administrators talked into doing things they didn't approve, because they feared personal consequences. Administrative theory and practice are not always the same.

[BigK]

Having been involved in the academic world for many years, I am well aware of the disconnect between the formal structure of committees, principles, rules, procedures, etc., and what can actually happen when an administrator wants to ignore them for some reason. I have served on hiring committees that have rejected job applicants, only to have an administrator offer legally binding contracts to the applicants anyway, even though they didn't meet the specific criteria in the job description. I have also seen a highly recommended candidate turned down solely because a powerful board member learned she had a female partner. I have seen end runs around stated goals because the administrator had an unstated goal. I have seen committee members or lower level administrators talked into doing things they didn't approve, because they feared personal consequences. Administrative theory and practice are not always the same.

I attended a Jesuit University and even in the early 80's we had a Gay/Straight Alliance.

[Guest hitoallusa]

My point is that you can't generalize a few isolated cases and say that it's a common practice. And I can't believe a real CEO or a board member will publicly proclaim that he or she denied a gay applicant because of an applicant's sexual orientation. It is a really stupid thing for a person at such a high position to say publicly and if you had been directly involved in the process, since you know what goes in a board meeting then you should have done something about it. Is it also possible that a disgruntled applicant

just made a false accusation to ease the pain of

rejection? We will never know. If all hires are done like that then that company will eventually fail because it's losing great talent that can help the company. It's A poor leadership exercise and It's better for the candidate to go someplace else.

[BiBottomBoy]

I think 95 percent of all students - straight or gay - will say "yes" to this question just to increase their chance of admission.

[Guest CharliePS]

I just read an article in which the college explained that one of their reasons for asking is that they want to extend their scholarships for underrepresented minorities at the school.

[BiBottomBoy]

This just bolsters my theory that really smart straight kids will claim to be gay to increase their chances of getting in and getting scholarship money.

I mean what is the college going to do - make them suck cock in front of them to prove it?

[marcanthony]

This just bolsters my theory that really smart straight kids will claim to be gay to increase their chances of getting in and getting scholarship money.

I mean what is the college going to do - make them suck cock in front of them to prove it?

haha... your scenario is a variation on a theme of the premise for the movie "Soul Man", the C. Thomas Howell movie where he pretends to be black so he can get accepted to Harvard. I am remember the movie being pretty stupid, but it was that typical lead the crazy double life thing and come to regret your choices (think Mrs. Doubtfire, lol). Anyway, I can see the recipient of the "Sterling Allsworth scholarship for underserved minorities" being awarded to some blond haired blue eyed kid from the burbs who pretended to be gay to get a scholarship and having all his friends ask him "what minority are you". Or having the University using the recipients' images for their marketing only to find parents discovering that their straight kids are actually "gay" when they see the commercials. Or then having mixers for all the scholarship recipients and having the straight pretenders getting hit on by the real gay kids.

haha... we should make a movie! "Gay for College Pay"

[BiBottomBoy]

College can cost 30k or more a year. I'm sure even some of the most conservative parents out there would be happy to have their kid pretend to be gay if it got him a scholarship.

[marcanthony]

College can cost 30k or more a year. I'm sure even some of the most conservative parents out there would be happy to have their kid pretend to be gay if it got him a scholarship.

haha... you are showing your age (or your time spent in Europe). Average private college now is 40K for undergrad. The Ivy League, Stanford, etc fraternity is 60K all in for a year, leading it to be a quarter of a million if you finish in the standard 4 years. Ultimately, it's an unsustainable model for higher education, especially since many of those go off to grad school. Not sure what kind of life people will lead if the average professional begins his or her career with 400K of educational debt...