Members MsGuy Posted November 22, 2010 Members Posted November 22, 2010 So now they are saying we have 4 Republican votes to repeal DADT in the Defense Authorization Bill if it makes it past filabuster and 2 Republican votes for cloture (maybe)!!?? And that Obama has strong armed the Armed Services Committee and Sen. Reid into keeping repeal in the bill (for now). I've been up and down on this DADT repeal roller coaster to the point my head is spinning. I've gotten to the point I'm deliberately trying not to get my hopes up. So does anyone have any information as to what Dick Lugar and Susan Collins (the 2 potential Repubican votes for cloture) are up to? Are they serious about voting for cloture if Republicans are allowed to offer a reasonable number of amendments or are they just blowing smoke up the collective ass of gay friendly Republican and independant supporters with no real intention of ever allowing an up and down vote on DADT? Anybody got any idea? I'm way past being bumfuzzeled on this. Quote
Members TampaYankee Posted November 22, 2010 Members Posted November 22, 2010 Not to worry much more... the waiting is almost over. Give it three more weeks -- two past Thanksgiving Week. I suspect that Lugar and Collins have said what is reported. I also expect that they will come under extreme pressure from McConnel, Kyl and McCain. It remains to be seen if they weather that storm. I believe the key is Collins. Lugar will follow through if he has one other to make 60. Else why get burned at the stake in a losing cause. He's fed up with the 'Just Say No' GOP tactics. This Nuclear Treaty is really going to separate him from the pack. Quote
BiBottomBoy Posted November 22, 2010 Posted November 22, 2010 What's happening is that the GOP is dealing with the reality that their future lies with keeping Libertarian voters on their side, because they've figured out they don't need to pander to the crazy christians anymore to get their vote, but do need Libertarians to come out and vote for them. And the Libertarians are very against DADT. The timing on this is that they need some of the new libertarian congressmpeople to vote with them to raise the debt ceiling in January and this is a way to throw them a bone. Quote
Members RA1 Posted November 22, 2010 Members Posted November 22, 2010 I hate it when anyone panders to the "crazy Christians". I would personally much prefer that Libertarians become a recognized 3rd party and start "pandering" to whatever constituency might exist for them. That would generally but not specifically include me. Best regards, RA1 Quote
Members Lucky Posted November 22, 2010 Members Posted November 22, 2010 If DADT gets repealed, it will probably be because of Senators, not the president. I don't see Obama as willing to use up any political capital for us, despite his campaign pledge to be a "fierce advocate for gay rights." Quote
Members lookin Posted November 22, 2010 Members Posted November 22, 2010 I think Obama set the strategy, including asking Secretary Gates for the military's report by December 1st and requesting Congress to pass the legislation. I agree that he could have issued an executive order to repeal DADT, but his present strategy involves all three branches of government. If successful, it should not be open to any further challenges. I'm not sure the same would be true of an executive order. The good news is, we should know by New Year's Eve if his strategy worked. If it doesn't, I expect he'll try something else. I believe him when he says that DADT will end on his watch. Must admit to some mixed feelings about the whole issue, as I would like to see our military reduced substantially. If all our gay service members resigned in protest, it would be a start to the reduction in armed forces that I'd like to see. Maybe they could each bring a fellow soldier along with them, and get some of the straight guys back in circulation too. Quote
Members TampaYankee Posted November 22, 2010 Members Posted November 22, 2010 What's happening is that the GOP is dealing with the reality that their future lies with keeping Libertarian voters on their side, because they've figured out they don't need to pander to the crazy christians anymore to get their vote, but do need Libertarians to come out and vote for them. And the Libertarians are very against DADT. The timing on this is that they need some of the new libertarian congressmpeople to vote with them to raise the debt ceiling in January and this is a way to throw them a bone. No disrespect intended, but I sometimes wonder if we live on the same planet. Then I remember you live in France and I understand everything again. Quote
BiBottomBoy Posted November 23, 2010 Posted November 23, 2010 LOL For all of their Ayn Rand bullshit, a lot of the Tea Party people are actually pro gay rights. Quote
Members Lucky Posted November 23, 2010 Members Posted November 23, 2010 Libertarian tend to favor gay rights as well. The government out of the bedroom and all that. Now that we will be going to war in Korea, I might volunteer. I liked lookin's pix of the gay soldiers. Can you imagine a straight soldier wearing that supertight t-shirt? hehe, the answer is yes- muscle guys all like to show off. Otherwise, why bother? Quote
BiBottomBoy Posted November 23, 2010 Posted November 23, 2010 It's because so many of the Tea Party people are libertarian that the GOP is going to have to give in somewhat on gay rights. Otherwise they risk a third party that splits the right wing vote. Quote
Members TampaYankee Posted November 24, 2010 Members Posted November 24, 2010 If DADT gets repealed, it will probably be because of Senators, not the president. I don't see Obama as willing to use up any political capital for us, despite his campaign pledge to be a "fierce advocate for gay rights." I believe the best approach is legislative repeal. It takes all of the wind out of the critics about executive fiat or judicial activism. The people's representative voice is hard to label as a slight of hand approach thwarting the will of the people. Quote
Guest Hoover42 Posted December 18, 2010 Posted December 18, 2010 Hell just froze over.... The Senate just voted 65-31 to repeal DADT. Now it goes to Mr. Obama to sign. Quote
caeron Posted December 19, 2010 Posted December 19, 2010 My dad who was a career officer called me with the news. He was so excited that the people he served so long with were finally going to do the right thing. I was very touched. I was offered a ROTC scholarship back in the day, but turned it down because I wasn't going to lie to serve my country. Quote
Guest zipperzone Posted December 19, 2010 Posted December 19, 2010 I don't understand something. So it passed in the Senate - thank God - and it now just has to be signed by the President. Why then are the news networks reporting that it will take several month to implement? I don't get it. Once it's law, what's to "implement". And that snake oil salesman McCain is still saying he will work to reverse it next year. It must have really pissed him off when his wife (who has all the real $$$ in the family) came out publicly recently defending the repeal. McC can't be very bright as he is still claiming that gays in the military will be a "distraction". Then again..... speaking of distractions, he picked Caribou Barbie! Quote
Guest Hoover42 Posted December 19, 2010 Posted December 19, 2010 [...] now just has to be signed by the President. Why then are the news networks reporting that it will take several month to implement? Even if Mr. Obama signs the bill, the law allows the President and both the civilian and military officials to phase in the changes when they're ready. I believe they can take as much time as they like, just as long as they can show that they are implementating the changes, however long that takes. Quote
Guest zipperzone Posted December 19, 2010 Posted December 19, 2010 Even if Mr. Obama signs the bill, the law allows the President and both the civilian and military officials to phase in the changes when they're ready. I believe they can take as much time as they like, just as long as they can show that they are implementating the changes, however long that takes. Changes? What changes? Yesterday you were drummed out if you were gay. Today - not so much. What's to "implement" for Gods sake? How do you "phase in the changes"? I must be very thick - I just don't get it. Quote
Members TampaYankee Posted December 19, 2010 Members Posted December 19, 2010 miracles never cease! Finally, some moderate Republicans crawl out from under the thumb of Mitch McConnell. Now hopefully we will see the exercise of some independent character for START too. Lest we get carried away that some Republicans finally have ended the policy of 'Just Say No', it is very disappointing that DREAM went down in flames. It highlights the lofty principles of some Republicans and a few Democrats that those principles can be so easily shelved depending on the political winds. Separates the statesmen from the politicans. I have in mind specifically those GOP Senators who have, in the past, sponsored DREAM legislation. Quote
Guest Hoover42 Posted December 19, 2010 Posted December 19, 2010 Changes? What changes? Yesterday you were drummed out if you were gay. Today - not so much. What's to "implement" for Gods sake? How do you "phase in the changes"? I must be very thick - I just don't get it. You're preaching to the choir, zipper Based on my own military experience, the military has tons of training material and mandatory courses on sexual and racial discrimination, so I'm not surprised that they might want to delay implementation of AAT (~DADT, lol) to give them time to prepare new training material to help officers and enlisted abide by the new policy. Quote
Guest zipperzone Posted December 20, 2010 Posted December 20, 2010 You're preaching to the choir, zipper Based on my own military experience, the military has tons of training material and mandatory courses on sexual and racial discrimination, so I'm not surprised that they might want to delay implementation of AAT (~DADT, lol) to give them time to prepare new training material to help officers and enlisted abide by the new policy. What a load of BULLCRAP - Not you Hoover - the military....... Quote
