More gays voting Republican

[KYTOP]

I found this most interesting. Almost 1/3 of self identified gays voted Republican in Tuesday's Election. Maybe the Democrats shouldn't take the gay vote so much for granted anymore. Note the story from Politico:

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1110/44743.html

[TotallyOz]

I find this interesting as well. What do you think is the cause of so many gays moving to a more conservative party? I see the whole of America as moving more conservative but gays????

[KYTOP]

I find this interesting as well. What do you think is the cause of so many gays moving to a more conservative party? I see the whole of America as moving more conservative but gays????

I think it depends on what is the main issue for the person. When it comes to social issues (Gay rights, DADT, Gay marriage, HIV funding, etc...) I think most gays go Democratic. At the same time many gays think the Democrats are good at giving us lip service and not much else, so why be loyal. Sort of like a blow job thats not good enough to get you to cum.

But right now, social issues are not many gays primary concern. They are unemployed like so many in this country is right now and want a decent job. They are concerned about their pocketbooks, a lack of jobs, the fear of higher taxes, and a record national debt. Issues that are considered conservative issues right now. Another thing I think is with more acceptance of gays, more gays are now becoming a part of Corporate America. Obama and the Democrats are getting a reputation of being anti-business. An anti-business climate will not help businesses to start hiring again.

I may be off base but that is my view on it.

I have often said I do not vote for a straight party label and this year I voted for both Democrats and Republicans. NO ONE should take my vote for granted. I voted for a Republican against my Democratic Congressman this year. (BTW the Democrat got re-elected in my district without my vote).

[TampaYankee]

I agree with KYTOP...

I think it depends on what is the main issue for the person. When it comes to social issues (Gay rights, DADT, Gay marriage, HIV funding, etc...) I think most gays go Democratic. At the same time many gays think the Democrats are good at giving us lip service and not much else, so why be loyal. Sort of like a blow job thats not good enough to get you to cum.

But right now, social issues are not many gays primary concern. They are unemployed like so many in this country is right now and want a decent job. They are concerned about their pocketbooks, a lack of jobs, the fear of higher taxes, and a record national debt. Issues that are considered conservative issues right now. Another thing I think is with more acceptance of gays, more gays are now becoming a part of Corporate America. Obama and the Democrats are getting a reputation of being anti-business. An anti-business climate will not help businesses to start hiring again.

I remain unconvinced that there is really any news here. People vote their pocket books, even gay people. Man lives by bread alone, when there is no bread. When you have no job other issues become secondary.

Also, I suspect more people are willing to admit to their status these days than in the past, even 2006. Attitudes are changing fast and that means in accepting gays in the public place: city all, TV, Congress, relatives, sons, daughters etc. There is a ways to go but more comfort exists for gays and for people around them.

Like KYTOP, I used to vote the man, not the party. I respect is view and I once thought it was best government and practice to send the best people, even with differing principles to govern in a rational process of give and take that constitutes compromise. However, after watching the GOP put party above country in the 2008 election with Palin and since then by obstructing at EVERY turn, I have no desire to lend support to their selfish and dangerous approach to governing the country. When the Dems sieze the minority they may choose to do the same. If they do they won't enjoy my support either. I haven't seen them engage as an institution in such wholesale abandonment of sound government practice yet, just the usual fringe crazies on that edge and some threatened obsrtuctionism of SCOTUS comfirmations.

There was a time when elections and campaigns ended after the votes were counted and the two parties worked together the best they could within their principles to hammer out compromise in proportion to their voting numbers. That is why we have elections, to fine tune those numbers and change the lead party as the times call for. Not to have one party obstruct the governing process. If both parties do this the country will fail as it would have had TARP not passed with significant bipartisan support. Not much has happened by way of cooperation since then, with the GOP even failing to support their own initiatives if the other side signed on to it.

The GOP has lost my vote by their irresponsible party-over-country actions not to mention the deliberate never ending mendacity that sacrifices truth for political gain. Both sides do it but IMO the GOP has been much more egregious liars in the last few years. The GOP may regain my vote in the future if they shed their liars and political opportunism and enthusiastic embrace of the right wing wackos but I don't expect that anytime soon or maybe in my lifetime.

[Guest Conway]

Well, as a gay conservative, I will give my two cents. While I am all for the repeal of DADT and gay marriage, the GOP represents my feelings on far more issues than the Democratic Party does at the present time.

I am part libertarian and part Jeffersonian at heart believing that less government is better than more and that I am far more capable of spending my earnings responsibly and in a way that supports my community than some government bureaucrat is.

I look at a state like California that has succumbed to the lockstep of the pro-union mentality and is now a financial train wreck. I worry that our federal government will succumb to that same type of mindless dystopic leadership that I once thought only existed in the pages of an Ayn Rand novel.

I look at a federal government run by a political party that looked away as millions of Americans expressed concern and some outrage over Obamacare just a year ago. Our opinions were not nearly as important as their idealism. Health care deserved a national debate last summer and the Democrats in the Congress refused to allow us to have one.

I am offended by a President who tried to tell me that a social program that will cost billions will help reduce our deficit without raising taxes on the middle class. I wondered to myself: is he stupid or is he simply evil and corrupt?

I am outraged by the staggering debt that our political leaders have caused us to incur and I look on in disbelief as they fail, over and over again, to listen to those of us who know that our future (or a lack thereof) is tied directly to how we handle that debt next few years. While Congressional Republicans and Congressional Democrats are responsible for that debt, it was only the tea party candidates who seemed committed to reducing it in this past election season.

I feel offended when, as a response to my expression of opinion, I am called racist and my ideas "hate speech" simply because they are different than what someone else believes.

While I feel strongly about social issues (some of which would be wildly popular with some of you and some of which would be wildly unpopular with you). social issues rarely drive my decisions in the voting booth. I am concerned about the future of our country. I am concerned about a political system that lacks accountability.

For these reasons, I voted Republican and I voted Tea Party. Our system is broken and I am ready to give someone new the opportunity to make it better and more responsive.

[Lucky]

Conway, I don't accuse you of any racism or anti-this or that. I just don't think you have all of the facts. The Health Care bill was not perfect, but health care reform was desperately needed. To say that there was no debate on it, well, where were you? It was being debated all over the place. The Democrat bill won. The Republicans are now playing sore loser, but history tells us that at every turn they will favor the health care INDUSTRY over the consumer. Those fat cat lobbyists are paid by the drug companies, the insurance companies, and the medical associations. With the Republicans, the average Joe has no chance on getting a better health care system.

As for the gays voting Republican, well, I understand voting your pocket book. I understand the frustration with weak Democrat support in some corners. But remember Reagan and AIDS. When we needed the Republicans the most, they weren't there for us. They won't be there next month when DADT is voted on, and they won't be there to support gay marriage. You can take that to the bank.

[Guest Conway]

Conway, I don't accuse you of any racism or anti-this or that. I just don't think you have all of the facts. The Health Care bill was not perfect, but health care reform was desperately needed. To say that there was no debate on it, well, where were you? It was being debated all over the place. The Democrat bill won. The Republicans are now playing sore loser, but history tells us that at every turn they will favor the health care INDUSTRY over the consumer. Those fat cat lobbyists are paid by the drug companies, the insurance companies, and the medical associations. With the Republicans, the average Joe has no chance on getting a better health care system.

As for the gays voting Republican, well, I understand voting your pocket book. I understand the frustration with weak Democrat support in some corners. But remember Reagan and AIDS. When we needed the Republicans the most, they weren't there for us. They won't be there next month when DADT is voted on, and they won't be there to support gay marriage. You can take that to the bank.

I never meant to intimate that you specifically called me racist. I'm sorry if you misunderstood that.

Yes, health care reform was desperately needed. The bill that was passed was a debacle of the special interests. It helps no one and will eventually bankrupt our tax system if it is allowed to be funded. Healthcare costs are already rising dramatically for everyone as a result and the law has not even taken full effect yet.

The premise is simple. You can't cover millions of uninsured for less money than if you don't insure them.

There's a reason that Nancy Pelosi had the House covene at midnight on a Saturday night to vote on Obamcare. The little people would be asleep by then and, by the next morning, the Democratic strategists would be on the morning talk shows spinning those dumb hayseeds around so badly that they'd never have any idea what the House had just passed.

It just didn't work out the way she thought. We hayseeds were well informed on the issue. We were fucking pissed off at the way it was handled and we didn't forget it between the summer of 2009 and the fall of 2010.

As for DADT and gay marriage, the one thing that I have learned is that, after primary season ends, Democrats care as little about those two issues as Republicans do.

Don't be a sucker for the love ya during primary season approach that democrats take with the gay community.

[KYTOP]

Conway, I don't accuse you of any racism or anti-this or that. I just don't think you have all of the facts. The Health Care bill was not perfect, but health care reform was desperately needed. To say that there was no debate on it, well, where were you? It was being debated all over the place. The Democrat bill won. The Republicans are now playing sore loser, but history tells us that at every turn they will favor the health care INDUSTRY over the consumer.

Well I agree with Conway on the Healthcare bill. Republicans did have some ideas and were locked out of the debate that took place behind closed doors. Obama had one very public meeting on healthcare with the Republicans (it was actually on live TV for President Photo-op) and he ignored all their suggestions.

Have you really looked at some of the Healthcare Bill? Just getting a bill so you can say you have something is not necessary such a good idea and this one may be a disaster.Even some of the so called positives are not so much so when you look at it closely.

Examples:

1) Mandates coverage of pre-existing conditions.

Sounds great but the bill allows you to be charged 3-4 times the normal rate if you have a pre-existing condition. Then if you could possibly still afford that the increase in premiuns (but the bill also requires you to have insurance so you gotta' pay it), what is collected will not cover the total costs of those persons added into the healthcare plan group. So then the premiums for all in the group go up to cover the increased expense for the plan to cover those with pre-existing conditions. End result, an increase in premiums for everyone to pay for it. Oh, of course those increases will be blamed on the insurance companies and not the Government.

2) Mandating ALL Americans have health coverage BUT the Government will sibsidize you if you are below a certain wage. Just were the hell are we going to get the money to pay for that! Plus a true example I read in my local paper. A single mother with one child cannot presently afford her employers offered health insurance. Between rent, groceries, car payment, gas, etc.. she cannot afford it. She makes $32,000 a year and under Obamacare she will receive $1,400 per year to help her cover the insurance cost. But that is only 40% of the cost of the insurance for her and her daughter. But the law requires her to have the insurance so where does she get the other $2,100 to cover the remaining cost? From her food bill, rent, where? So now even if she could afford it, that means more money going to buy insurance and less for clothes, TV, electronics, new car, etc... So consumers have even less money to spend and yet another hit on our economy. So we add to the deficit and also reduce a persons buying power.

I personally think this provision, which is being challenged as being against the constitution, is unconstitutional. Yes we mandate you to have auto insurance but you can choose not to have a car. You cannot choose not to have a body.

3) Medicaid mandates upon the states.

The bill allows more people to be added to the state Medicaid programs by requiring the states to add anyone on Medicaid that makes below 133% of the poverty level. It varies by state but Medicaid is about 60-75% Fedreal money and the rest state money. So you will see an explosion in the Medicaid population. So even IF the Federal Government can pay for their share, where are the states going to get the money to cover their shares. The oh so great stimulus program ended up being a huge program to prop up many states budgets. So the stimulus program ends, the states have still less money BUT must cover more Medicaid costs. Look at California,and just about every other state, where are they going to get the money? More taxes?

Another problem with this is that only a limited number of healthcare providers will even accept Medicaid because they have historically low reimbursement. I use to be a healthcare provider and 2 years ago when I retired, we lost $60 on every Medicaid patient we saw. Our other patients had to be charged more to cover the Medicaid patients loses. So now there will be even more loses to be covered by the other patients and everyone ends up paying for the expansion of the Medicaid program.

I sat on a regional board helping to over see a portion of the program here in my state and we couldn't get anywhere near enough doctors to care for the the patients and forget about dentists. The wait for appointments was often long. Now we are going to throw more people into that system. Most of our providers were either government clinics, University teaching Hospital clinics, or foreign doctors. So how long are the waits going to be now? This is going to be a disaster.

4) Covers more RX for seniors on Medicare closing the so called "donut hole". So how do we pay for that when we are told the original Medicare RX plan for seniors helped create our present deficit. Plus the bill FORBIDS the Government from negotiating with the drug companies for reduced bulk pricing in exchange for the RX companies to provide for some free meds. This was a complete Obama deal with the RX companies.

5) There are no provisions in the bill to control healthcare cost.

6) The bill will reduce waste and fraud. Well I've heard that one from every President since Reagan. Don't hold you breath on that one or you will need your over-priced healthcare that this bill creates.

7) I think this bill may require the insurance and Medicaid programs to hire more people but we will probably just out source those jobs to India.

I could go on and on about this Healthcare Bill. Yes we needed Healthcare reform but this bill sucks and not in a good way!!!!

[Lucky]

KY, thanks for the info on the health care bill. I agree that it has problems. But I do think they got the best bill they could get at the time, with the hope of fixing things later. Not the best approach, no doubt.

Conway, hard to argue with your last sentence. The Dems buttfucked gays when we only needed a blowjob.

Thanks for participating as it has made for some good conversation...I am listening to what you say. Where else could I talk with a Tea Party supporter?

[lookin]

Lest we become disheartened, gents, it's good to focus on the increasing number of other countries that have been able to provide universal health care and to let their gay citizens serve openly and successfully. We will only be able to lag for so long and then we too will figure it out.

Perhaps with a twist of our own.

[Lucky]

How can we become disheartened when we see young gays like that as the future?

[BiBottomBoy]

Most Americans voted against their own self interest during these midterms. Why should gays be any different?

[Guest NeedSome]

Most Americans voted against their own self interest during these midterms. Why should gays be any different?

I agree with the premise that people are voting with their pocketbooks. But in general, for the last ten years or so I've definitely seen a growing trend of younger people becoming increasingly conservative in general (pardon that sentence construction). I see it at work, I hear it when I eavesdrop on conversations at the gym (where it's always the gays I'm eavesdropping on) and everywhere else. I'm sure there is hard research on this somewhere but anecdotally, how many others here have heard 20 and 30 somethings talk about the great days of the Reagan era? I don't see why younger gays would be any less prone to this trend than the straight population.

[BiBottomBoy]

Plus self loathing is not uncommon in really young gays.

[Guest jimboivyo]

Nothing wrong with being gay and voting republican. It's not self loathing, it's a matter of self preservation in some people's eyes. Not all republicans are bad people. If you believe that, you're as bad as those who think all gays are child molesters. Politically, I'm a centrist. I'm a Goldwater republican- less government, less tax, more personal freedom. Unfortunately, the repubs are now being run by a loud group of evangelicals, which has ruined the party for me. Government and religion have no place together in my eyes.

People are so disenchanted by the obama administration that they'll go anywhere else to find change. On the good side, at least we got rid of pelosi.

[Lucky]

Oh, face it, jimboivyo, you are a Nicholasian through and through. It comes through in all your posts!

[Guest jimboivyo]

Oh, face it, jimboivyo, you are a Nicholasian through and through. It comes through in all your posts!

it's true it's true! I also light a candle in honor of bn on a daily basis and am supporting his run as gov of Texas during the next election.

[MsGuy]

OK, you've managed to out obscure even me. What the fuck is a "Nicholasian"?

The word doesn't even show up on Google.

----

Edit: Oh, that kind of Nicholasian! Sorry to interrupt.

[BiBottomBoy]

If joining a party that wants to strip you of your basic human rights because of your sexual preference isn't self loathing, I'm not sure what is.