Was Bush better president than Obama?

[TotallyOz]

We really are a country of idiots. By only 2 percent, a recent CNN poll shows that Obama is a better President than Bush.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/10/08/cnntime-poll-was-bush-better-president-than-obama/?iref=NS1

[alanalt]

Personally, I think they're comparing apples and oranges when one compares a 2-term past president's 'success' to that of a current incumbent who's not yet half way through his first term. So for my part, I'd have refused to answer the question.

But addressing Oz's comment, I think it's less a case of Americans being 'idiots' and more a case of expectations being so much higher for Obama and they're conspicuously not being met. Lots of Obama voters flocked to his cause because they genuinely believed he could change the 'system' and what they see after 2 years is a Washington and national political scene that's just as hyper-partisan and schizophrenic today as it was in 2008. So it's no wonder that lots of people are disillusioned. Obama sold himself as a once-in-a-generation political figure and has proven disappointingly ordinary. I don't think anyone really saw Bush as ever being 'great', so when he failed to live up to expectations, the only people who were 'outraged' were the folks that had hated him from the get-go. And on the few occasions where Bush rose above expectations (as in the immediate post 9/11 period), people were so darned amazed that it gave him a popularity 'cushion' that lasted a lot longer than anything Obama ever had...

Having said that, it's definitely too soon to write Obama's political obituary. British PM Harold Wilson used to say 'a week is a long time in politics' and Obama has more than 100 weeks before he has to face the voters personally. But he's going to have to change his game plan a lot in order to win in 2012 and if he fails the re-election test that Bush passed, well then it will be a lot harder to argue against the 45 odd percent who picked Bush in this poll!

Alan

[TampaYankee]

We really are a country of idiots. By only 2 percent, a recent CNN poll shows that Obama is a better President than Bush.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/10/08/cnntime-poll-was-bush-better-president-than-obama/?iref=NS1

You cannot rely upon poll snapshots to answer a question like that. All they tell you is that people are unhappy right now. Completely understandable. The hold whoever is in power responsible whether it is totally their fault or not. Whether anything can be done right now or not. It is a measure of unhappiness. I conjecture that if McCain had won the country would be one hell of a lot unhappier than they are today. Does that matter to everyone? Not really. They rail against what is, not what might have been. However, if they blindly throw people out of office they may well get the opportunity to be even more unhappy. Actions have consequences. The Fat Cats will be smiling and the middle class will the fucked. But that is the status quo most of the time anyway.

I believe that history will record Bush as one of the worst, if not the very worst of all the Presidents and I do not make that statement lightly or out of poltical ideology. All one needs to do is consider;

Iraq, the deliberate misreading and biasing of intelligence to support war entry

Afghanistan, leaving the real war against terror to wither on the vine while war was pursued against an imaginary enemy for oil and politics

Iraq, failure to plan and staff effectively for the post Iraqi-Army-defeat to stabilize the country and secure the vast weapons caches rather than leaving them to the insurgents for IEDs and unlimited troop weapons. This includes staffing government posts with myriads of people with little relevant experience but with the right religious and political credentials. (Think Brownies all over the place.)

Katrina, abandoning citizens to starvation, disease, exposure and criminal elements while patting Brownie on the back, leaving 1800 plus to die.

Iraq, Filling the coffers of American Industry cronies Bechtel, KKR, etc from the funds supporting the Iraq war, while leaving contractors to electrocute our troops in showers and detain amercian female citizens who had reported sexual abuse while employed to support the war effort.

lining the pockets of industry and wall street with tax breaks going to the richest of the rich.

facilitating the selling the country to China

facilitating sending jobs overseas and underwriting that through tax breaks for those businesses doing it

pushing deregulation of Wall Street and Big Business while they steal investors blind, ultimately causing the greates financial meltdown since the Great Depression and robbing the middle class of savings and jobs in unbelievable magnitude

committing illegal searches and siezures and intimdiating Amercian communciations corporations to perform said illegal seraches and then seeking ex post facto laws to legalize prior illegal acts

leading through persuasion or intimidation Congress to pass search and siezure laws that skirt the Consitution guarantees.

Commiting war crimes by ignoring the Geneva conventions to use torture interrogation techniques

... and I haven't even broken a sweat to come up with these items. They were off the tip of my head. Given a little time and research I'm confident I could come up with a few more items to include in the brief.

Anybody who argues that Bush was anything but a travesty is... well, I'll temper my remarks at this point as their might be some misguided and ill-informed that might lurk or post here.

It is nonsensical to compare eight full years of Bush with six of them terrible failures to a not even two year Obama record. Anyone foolish enough even comtemplate that question at this point in the Obama administration is more desirous of proclaming political agendas than objective accomplisments and their impact on the country. The only thing substantively to be taken from such polls is that people are unhappy with the times and present circumstances.

Can this really be surprising since Bush and Wall St dropped an A Bomb on the US economy BEFORE Obama came in leaving a very big hole to climb out of. The deeper the hole the longer it takes to climb out. Where is the suprise? Yet people expect it to happen overnight. It ain't happening overnight no matter who is in the Whitehouse or Congress. However, that doesn't mean that it cannot be screwed up to take even longer. I predict one thing though... if and when the GOP takes the helm the recovery will be much faster and fatter for the rich than for the middle class. You can take that to the bank.

[MsGuy]

This includes staffing government posts with myriads of people with little relevant experience but with the right religious and political credentials. (Think Brownies all over the place.)

"Think Brownies all over the place." Perfect! TY, sometimes you come up with a real gem. May I quote you down at my truck stop coffee shop?

[lookin]

TY, I've got a crick in my neck from nodding agreement with your post, line by line. The only point I'd add to your list is the deterioration of international relations under the Bush administration. On September 12th we had the largest outpouring of American support I can recall. Within a year, it had been squandered.

I think the problem with the American electorate is a belief that all problems are caused by the federal government and should therefore be solved by a different federal government, and preferably within a matter of days or weeks. We lack the perspective of a decade-long depression, and we no longer realize the importance of being part of an international community. Worse, there is virtually no one left in the national media to remind us. It appears we are living in a fantasy world.

Like you, I felt that whoever got the Presidency two years ago would be in for a tough slog. I'm amazed we've clawed back as much as we have, and will be pleasantly surprised if we avoid another backslide or two. Obama's done more than I hoped, and faster than I expected. McCain, in my opinion, would still be looking around for something to fix. Hell, he'd probably have spent his first two years trying to clean up after Palin.

I'm really hoping we don't do a knee-jerk housecleaning in November. If we do, I expect private industry will grab hold of the federal government and hang on tight, and it will be many years before average American citizens will again get a place at the table.

And there may not be much left when we do.

[BiBottomBoy]

What people really mean is that they are more broke now than they were under Bush.

[TampaYankee]

The only point I'd add to your list is the deterioration of international relations under the Bush administration. On September 12th we had the largest outpouring of American support I can recall. Within a year, it had been squandered.

Whoa, yeah... how did I overlook that one. He did a 180 fron the old man. Bush I built the greatest international coalition for the First Gulf War since WWII I believe. He was extremely effective at building international consensus as W was at destroying international consensus. Sometimes it is hard for me to imagine at how badly Bush II chose to be at international relations.

Another obvious one is turning a budget surplus on the day he entered into office into a screaming budget deficit they day he left office. This by the historically fiscally conservative Republicans holding the White House and Congress.

It is obvious to me anyway that Bush II was in way over his head. This is the problem when a political faction chooses an inferior candidate to front for them as they take over the power structure of the country. This is the real danger of Caribou Barbie and the other Tea Party clowns. Yeah, their backers will line their pockets with their useful idiots in office but those idiots will do all sorts or drastic damage before their term is up. I guess that doesnt matter to those who profit.

Worse, there is virtually no one left in the national media to remind us. It appears we are living in a fantasy world.

Unfortunately, this is very true and very very disturbing for moving ahead on the American Political Front on a rational basis.

With the plethora of news and faux news outlets the competition is very keen to acquire politicans and political personalities for interviews and comments. Rather than challenge guests with penetrating questions the outlets serve up softballs so as not to offend those guests who they hope to see return in the future. Thus all kinds of political crap is promulgated unchallenged for what it is.

In the old days there were three broadcast outlets and the newspapers that didnt have to worry about catering to guests in order encourage return visits. They were the only game in town and the press served its legitimate purpose. Today, the 'press' seek ratings and advertising. Unvarnished informing of the country has no place in the current 'press' model even though some would have you believe there has been no loss of fidelity in the press' mission. Hogwash!!

Much of the 'new press' has become polarized catering to a political sector and highlighting the politics and politicians of a sympathethic stripe. This looks politically driven and to some extent it is but underenath the ratings and ads are not to be missed as a prime motivator.

Even so-called middle of the road press outlets pull their punches in order not to offend guests so they will return.

How does all of this contribute to an informed electorate? It doesn't. It works to misinform the electorate or bias the electorate intentionally or not, but that is ok if it builds ratings and sells advertising. The electorate has to read beyond the news outlets and piece together what is going on in the country from non-poltical stories from unbiases sources. Such unbiased sources willing to pursue the hard issues and call fraud when it is presented by either side are fewer and more obscure every year. Most of the electorate doesnt have the time or take the time to ferret out the real story. So the game is to have parties and groups sway the electorate without pretty much any signgificant impartial press to challenge it.

That is the kind of press that seeks out polls comparing a less than two year president steering us through the worst economy in 80 years to an eight year fiasco. That is what substitutes for a press that challenges both sides about their positions and policies.

Nowhere does the Constitution guarantee us an informed democratic republic.

[Lucky]

Bush also gave us Alito and Roberts. Dangerous men, especially Roberts, as he intends to turn the country over to the plutocrats and systematically dismantle our liberties. He is the most anti-American Chief justice...ever. Probably a Muslim too.

[BiBottomBoy]

I heard that Chief Roberts is actually a cactus.

[Guest zipperzone]

I heard that Chief Roberts is actually a cactus.

Well he IS thorny.

[BiBottomBoy]

If he's not a cactus why hasn't he held a press conference to say he's not a cactus. Or shown us his birth certificate so we can be sure his parents were not cactus?

Also, why hasn't Clarence Thomas said whether or not he raped and killed a young girl in 1991, if he didn't do it?

I'm not saying that either thing is true about either justice, I'm just asking the questions.

[Lucky]

I don't think a politician has to respond to every crazy thing said about him. But to answer the question of the thread, Bush did a better job of fooling the people than Obama is doing. I am going to be a fierce advocate of Obama's re-election. That's to thank him for living up to his promise to be a fierce advocate of gay rights.

[BiBottomBoy]

Lucky,

So you are saying it's Obama and not Thomas who raped and killed a young girl in 1991?

[BiBottomBoy]

I just realized that not everyone might get the joke I'm making:

So, I'll throw out some links:

http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Professor_Glenn_Beck#The_1990_rape_accusations

http://gb1990.com/archive/

[Lucky]

I have no idea either, but someone told me that you were a transexual mafia henchman in Paris who runs a big gambling den for straight women into kink.

Don't bother defending yourself, I already believe it is true!

[BiBottomBoy]

It is true.

[MsGuy]

It is true.

The truth finally comes out! You had me fooled into thinking you were living somewhere down in Provence.

[BiBottomBoy]

The Jackal has many places to hide.

[KYTOP]

We really are a country of idiots. By only 2 percent, a recent CNN poll shows that Obama is a better President than Bush.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/10/08/cnntime-poll-was-bush-better-president-than-obama/?iref=NS1

I think the jury is still out and Obama has at least 2 more years. But honestly so far I'm not inpressed and am starting to regret my vote.

[BiBottomBoy]

I think it's clear to pretty much everyone now that we should have nominated and elected Hillary.

[caeron]

I agree. I wish we'd elected hillary.

[Guest zipperzone]

I agree. I wish we'd elected hillary.

Blame it on Oprah. As a woman, her endorsement of another woman would have probably tipped the scales for Hillary, but no, she had to play her race card.

[BiBottomBoy]

Very true.

Oprah is to blame.