Guest wowpow Posted June 30, 2007 Posted June 30, 2007 I was there last week and talking to a boy that I have known for a couple of years.I did not plan to off him. A waiter asked me if I wanted to buy the boy a drink and I said "No thank you I give boy tip" and I said to the boy, who has limited English "I will give you tip if you want to buy drink with that money you can". Then my favourite waiter came and sat with us and I was busy, removing his shirt, I glimpsed a waiter motioning to the other boy and he said "Whisky and soda" and the waiter ran off without catching my eye.I said to the boy "I not buy drink for you if you want one you pay" and gave him 200 baht. He ran off to the bar arrived a matter of seconds after the waiter. The drink arrived with a bill and I said "I am not paying for that I did not order" the waiter who was still with me gave the bill back to the waiter who brought the drink. The drink served looked much smaller than mine and no hint of a brownish whisky colour. I had a sip. It was diluted Spry with no hint of whisky. I saw the boy who ordered the drink had disappeared and then came back and talked to the owner.He looked glum.I felt unhappy so I tipped the waiter, I was molesting, generously, paid for my, untouched drink, and left. On the way out I asked the boy if he had to pay for the drink and he shrugged. I thought I had better leave it until I cool down and left. Back in Bangkok this week I was sitting in Dick's Cafe next to Future Boys. I saw the boy going to work and he told me that he has to pay 220 baht for the drink but the boss gave him time to pay as he had no money. I asked about the money I had given him and he said "I have to give my friend because I borrowed money from him". Now I know that he does not have to pay the full 220 baht because at that bar they get 100 baht kickback if a customer buys them a drink. Later I saw the Mamasan who I have known for years - since he did a magnificent f*** show at the old Jupiter bar. I told him what happened. He said my boss make decision and I could see that I had got nowhere. I told him that I would not go to his bar again because they made me unhappy and I go to bars to be happy. Also there so many of the staff smoke that it makes little difference if the customers do as well. He said "all the bars are the same". He told me that I drink too much which was odd as I don't these days. I gave him a nice tip and told him sorry it would be the last time. Question - should I give money to the boy who has to pay for the diluted Spry? If so how much 220 baht or 120 baht? I am tempted to go into the bar when the boy is dancing and stuff bug bucks into his briefs as a sort of FU to the bar but they will just laugh. The owners always win over bar boys. ---------------------------- I recently found out a new rule if you go to A-Bomb bar and off a boy the fee is 300 baht. If you book one to come round the fee is 400 baht because you did not buy a drink? Quote
TotallyOz Posted June 30, 2007 Posted June 30, 2007 I would have been equally pissed but I really doubt that the bar made him pay 220 for the drink. That sounds like BS to me and I don't believe it. I have know of many bars who charge an extra 100 baht for boys that you off that you did not buy them a drink. I don't think that is exclusive to ABomb. I have had the same thing happen many times as I have offed numbers of boys in one setting. My way around this was to order a whiskey and then let them all drink from it. They don't care how many drink this drink. They really make their cash off the drinks and the offs but if you are known you should also not be required to pay the extra fee. I have known farangs to wait until closing to take off a boy so they don't have to pay the fee or buy a drink. I much prefer to go in early and get the boy or boys I want for the evening. I also make it clear if one doesn't drink, I'm not paying an extra fee for that. Your experience at Future Boys reminded me of a trip I took with one of their boys years ago. I had offed him for 20 days to go around Thailand with me. It was like my 2nd trip to Thailand. I was willing to pay the fee for each day but they tried to add on more cash for long term off. I told them to fuck off and they would take the regular fee price or I would just keep the boy and he would not work there again. They took the fee and the manager apologized for the mamasan's request. Aparently, she was trying to get some extra for herself. Quote
Gaybutton Posted June 30, 2007 Posted June 30, 2007 I have a couple reactions to this. The first is for GayThailand. Why even tell anyone at the bar that you are taking the boy "off" for a long period of time? Why not just give the "off" fee to the boy each day and tell him to take care of it himself? That way you wouldn't be involved at all. Wowpow, I think you should have given the boy 20 baht. You didn't order the drink, but you gave him 200 baht to buy a drink if he wanted one. If the drink was 220 baht, then you had already covered 200 baht of it, hadn't you? If there was an issue, then why didn't you talk to the owner yourself and tell him you were served a drink you didn't order? I've learned that it's best not to get involved with these sorts of disputes. I understand that you don't intend for the boy to end up having to pay, but if a waiter comes over to me with a drink I didn't order, then I wouldn't even let him serve it. I would tell him I didn't order that and would tell him to take it back. If my bill comes and that drink is on it, I would tell him to take it off the bill. An honest mistake is one thing, but this sounds to me like it was intentional. Quote
Guest pete1969 Posted June 30, 2007 Posted June 30, 2007 WowPow, I am still uncertain as to why you are chalking this incident up to a "greedy bar owner." From what I can ascertain from your tale, you told the boy he could order a drink with the money you gave him, the boy ordered a drink, the waiter tried to give the bill to you and you told him to give it to the boy, and the boy was made to pay for the drink (if he was actually made to pay for it, it was with his 100 baht kickback being taken off the price). At that point it became a situation between the staff of the bar, and you were totally out of it as you were not made to pay for the drink nor even hassled about it by the staff once you told the waiter you did not order the drink. So, why even worry over it or care about the disposition? How is the owner even involved in this transaction? Why should he have to pay for it? You told the boy he could order a drink if he wanted to pay for it. The boy tested you to see if you would pay for it and since you did not, I'm still not seeing any logic as to why the owner should have to pay for it. Owners have to be careful that the staff don't pull this trick of ordering drinks without the customer's consent, and the best way to stop that is to make the staff pay for drinks they ordered in this fashion. If I were the owner and this happened, I'd make the boy pay for the drink too. I'm just curious as to the logic here or if I am missing something. Pete Quote
Guest wowpow Posted July 1, 2007 Posted July 1, 2007 Well it looks as if this may run. Pete 1969 Firstly lets look who was hurt. The waiter who asked for an the order - probably not, the boy - definitely, the owner not in the incident but maybe long term, me the customer hurt no miffed yes. The rights and wrongs - from a Western viewpoint Naughty -The waiter was definitely out of order surreptitiously taking an order from a boy with a customer who was not aware that it was happening. Naughty - The boy may have though he was being dumped when I was playing with the waiter friend. Did he think he would get what he could and order the drink knowingly or did he not understand what I had said about tips? Maybe he should have told me about his kick back. Naughty - The bar or waiter when asked to cancel the order refused. Naughty - The Owner for serving boy drinks of watered Spry (cost maybe 5 baht selling 220 baht ) and refusing to resolve the situation equitably. Foolish - Mamasan for not doing anything when I subsequently told him the full story. Good - The waiter that I was entertaining who stopped the bar insisting that I pay. pete1969 - The reason that I care about the disposition is because I like the boy and it saddened me that he was the one forced to pay up for virtually nothing. ----------------------------------------- GayThailand. I have no reason not to believe what the boy and subsequently the Mamasan told me. If you think it is BS and don't believe it that's up to you though rather unkind to say so. I am not aware of any bars that charge a higher off fee for a boy if you have not bought him a drink. It may have happened but I did not notice. As the off fees are never published it's hard to know the correct price. I wonder if this lovely pink colour will be legible - here goes Quote
Guest hans030 Posted July 1, 2007 Posted July 1, 2007 but what is a normal fee to off a boy for 2 weeks? Well it looks as if this may run. Pete 1969 Firstly lets look who was hurt. The waiter who asked for an the order - probably not, the boy - definitely, the owner not in the incident but maybe long term, me the customer hurt no miffed yes. The rights and wrongs - from a Western viewpoint Naughty -The waiter was definitely out of order surreptitiously taking an order from a boy with a customer who was not aware that it was happening. Naughty - The boy may have though he was being dumped when I was playing with the waiter friend. Did he think he would get what he could and order the drink knowingly or did he not understand what I had said about tips? Maybe he should have told me about his kick back. Naughty - The bar or waiter when asked to cancel the order refused. Naughty - The Owner for serving boy drinks of watered Spry (cost maybe 5 baht selling 220 baht ) and refusing to resolve the situation equitably. Foolish - Mamasan for not doing anything when I subsequently told him the full story. Good - The waiter that I was entertaining who stopped the bar insisting that I pay. pete1969 - The reason that I care about the disposition is because I like the boy and it saddened me that he was the one forced to pay up for virtually nothing. ----------------------------------------- GayThailand. I have no reason not to believe what the boy and subsequently the Mamasan told me. If you think it is BS and don't believe it that's up to you though rather unkind to say so. I am not aware of any bars that charge a higher off fee for a boy if you have not bought him a drink. It may have happened but I did not notice. As the off fees are never published it's hard to know the correct price. I wonder if this lovely pink colour will be legible - here goes Quote
Guest fountainhall Posted July 2, 2007 Posted July 2, 2007 A waiter asked me if I wanted to buy the boy a drink and I said "No thank you I give boy tip" and I said to the boy, who has limited English "I will give you tip if you want to buy drink with that money you can". These kinds of situation are always frustrating and end up spoiling a fun evening out. But I doubt if the boy really had any clue at all of the implication of what he was being told (above). Even if spelled out for him, any Thai with just basic english will almost always interpret this as "I will give you tip" and "I will buy you a drink". So I feel sorry for the boy who has lost a lot of face with his employers and peers - and a decent tip. I frequently hear farangs - long time residents as well as visitors - making what they think are helpful comments/suggestions without realising that the boys haven't the faintest clue what they are really saying. I find the only way to avoid such situtations is to speak relatively slowly, use very simple phrases, don't link one action with another, and be 100% clear. Or learn Thai! Quote
