Oh Boy

[Lucky]

When can you call a black man a boy in the workplace without it having racial intent? Well, anytime you want, according to the United States Court of Appeals for the 11th Circuit, the top court in the South.

It seems that these justices think if you just call the worker boy, it's not racial. you have to call him something like a black boy to make it racial. Even after a nudge by the Supreme Court, the 11th Circuit on retrial refused to change their minds.

If this is what passes for justice in today's south, well what hope do Muslims have?

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/07/us/politics/07bar.html?_r=1&ref=us

[TampaYankee]

When can you call a black man a boy in the workplace without it having racial intent? Well, anytime you want, according to the United States Court of Appeals for the 11th Circuit, the top court in the South.

It seems that these justices think if you just call the worker boy, it's not racial. you have to call him something like a black boy to make it racial. Even after a nudge by the Supreme Court, the 11th Circuit on retrial refused to change their minds.

If this is what passes for justice in today's south, well what hope do Muslims have?

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/07/us/politics/07bar.html?_r=1&ref=us

There's been a whole lot of backsliding in civility and respect in this country among groups and even the goverment itself as you can see in the courts. Bush and now Obama, with Congress okaying, have abridged freedoms and right of citizens and aliens alike. They have coerced corporations to aid and abett them and then when these corporations were called by litigants, Congress passed ex post facto laws to let those corporations of the hook, presumably because they did it as a result of coercion by the Administration.

Yes, it is shocking to see this court decision but no more shocking that all the other wholesale instances of abandoned rights and freedoms.

Don't get me wrong, there have always been groups who wanted to divide peoples and deny rights and freedoms to some. What has changed is that these causes have been taken up by our Goverment and Political Parties and they choose to act against the people at large as well as defined groups for poltical reasons or perceived threats to our society. It seems those threats are succeeding if the purpose is to bring our society down from the perch that our forefathers placed it on.

[Guest Matrix]

You don't change most historical race based social injustice with laws. You change it with your daily actions and by your demonstrated example.

As with much of our darker national history, you can't erase it with a few laws on the books.

[Lucky]

That's true to some extent, but the Civil Rights Act passed after Kennedy's death went a long way towards improving conditions for blacks. (The law freeing the slaves helped too.) Gays seem to think that Hate Crime laws have some benefit, although I am not sure of that.

But your bottom line I agree with. We need to change the hearts and minds of people, and laws can only go so far in doing that.

[TampaYankee]

You don't change most historical race based social injustice with laws. You change it with your daily actions and by your demonstrated example.

As with much of our darker national history, you can't erase it with a few laws on the books.

Laws cannot change hearts and minds as Lucky puts it, but they do offer redress when no other avenue exists. That's very important. Now the government and its constituent parties are chipping away at that.

[RA1]

Doesn't it matter what one's intent is when calling anyone anything? I have called many of my friends, acquaintences and, among them, black males, boy. It was all as a matter of conversation and, in no case, referred to any thing else. Hey, guy, how are you doing is not any different from hey, boy, how are you doing, with no malice or other intent involved. So far, no one has objected, either white or black; I have to suppose they know what I mean.

Best regards,

RA1

Yes, I realize the previous history but I am trying to be "natural" and friendly. Isn't everyone?

[Guest Matrix]

Laws cannot change hearts and minds as Lucky puts it, but they do offer redress when no other avenue exists. That very important. Now the government and its constituent parties are chipping away at that.

And how is all the "redressing" really working from a law point of view? Not very well, I'd suggest.

Forced social change by law might make things look cosy and fine from the surface and make everyone feel better about themselves, but it will never cleanse the bigotry in those who possess it.

It takes generations. And generations. And then more generations.

[Guest Matrix]

Doesn't it matter what one's intent is when calling anyone anything?

Of course it does. It's just fine for another black person to call another black person a nigger in their social conversation. just as you or I might refer to one another as faggot, queer or, god forbid the terrible -"oh Mary" - in our social conversations and interactions..

But done outside of same or like parties, these terms become inflammatory.

[TampaYankee]

And how is all the "redressing" really working from a law point of view? Not very well, I'd suggest.

Forced social change by law might make things look cosy and fine from the surface and make everyone feel better about themselves, but it will never cleanse the bigotry in those who possess it.

It takes generations. And generations. And then more generations.

I'd suggest better than you suggest. Sure it is a mixed bag. But while laws wont change hearts and minds it does change behavior. Changing behavior is training for changing ways and through that ideas. Maybe you cannot teach an old dog new tricks but without codifying change in behavior through law you cannot expect newer generations to pick up new ways. If behavior doesnt change then it is passed down and learned by the younger generation. That is always the way it has worked.

You cannot seriously argue that the American Civil Rights situation would have gotten appreciably better on its own, without the civil rights laws of the 60's. If so then you live in a different world than I live in.

Did CR laws change all the hearts and minds overnight? No. Some poeple will never change. However, things are better on many fronts, better than they would have been without the laws.

While it would be nice for all to fully embrace each other it is sufficient on a practical daily basis that they only accept and tolerate each other, so everyone has similar opportunity and access to the benefits of living in society. I'll accept imperfect but practical improvements over waiting for nothing less than the achievement of perfect brotherly love.

[Guest Matrix]

You cannot seriously argue that the American Civil Rights situation would have gotten appreciably better on its own, without the civil rights laws of the 60's. If so then you live in a different world than I live in.

Of course not and that's why I stated that it takes generation upon generation for these toxic poisons to find themselves out of our society. From the 60's to this very day, and we are still struggling through this kind of stuff. although many feel more comfortable believing otherwise, we still have a long way to go.

I believe that some social crimes are so heinous that they never really go away. They might get better over time, but they never really go away.

Thank God the bible doesn't claim that all black men are murders, thieves and degenerates!

Had the government passed out as many bongs as they did gas-masks back in the 60's, things would have changed dramatically for the good and in a much shorter period of time too. #just sayin.

[Guest zipperzone]

Doesn't it matter what one's intent is when calling anyone anything? I have called many of my friends, acquaintences and, among them, black males, boy. It was all as a matter of conversation and, in no case, referred to any thing else. Hey, guy, how are you doing is not any different from hey, boy, how are you doing, with no malice or other intent involved. So far, no one has objected, either white or black; I have to suppose they know what I mean.

Best regards,

RA1

Yes, I realize the previous history but I am trying to be "natural" and friendly. Isn't everyone?

You are plainly delusional.