Thread closures

[Guest Matrix]

I guess I'm curious about these thread closures of late. So I'm going to ask. Why?

This latest one with the Hooville News while obviously a titillating thread had more view hits than any other non locked thread on the page - and within less than 24 hours.

Obviously people were interested or they would not have kept reviewing it...

If people can't responsibly select what they view for themselves without moderation, then they probably shouldn't be in adult forums to begin with, even if, people are engaging in less than adult behavior.

This recent thread obviously had people's interest. Hence the view count.

Absent threats and abhorrent behavior(s) against nature, I think these type threads should run themselves out on their own merit, by themselves and by viewer click count and participation. They usually always do.

Just my humble opinion, but really where is the true harm in it all?

[TampaYankee]

No harm at all if you are not the target. That is the way it is in blood sports.

As I mentioned in the closed thread a final post will be forthcoming soon with the site view.

Added in edit: That post has been made in the other thread.

[lookin]

Matrix, I agree with you that I'd like to have seen that thread open a little while longer, and maybe get some more input on the question I had. (And thanks very much to those who did respond! It was helpful.) But I also have a great deal of trust in the moderators' ability to see when a thread is going somewhere they don't want it going, and complete respect for their decisions to cut it off before it gets there. They may consider it out of bounds before you and I would and, in effect, I think they're setting an editorial tone for the site that they want to own and operate.

To answer your question on 'Where's the harm?', I guess for me the harm would come if they found themselves attracting behavior they didn't want, or losing members they did want, and that could eventually jeopardize the site.

I notice that TY apologized in the other thread for closing it. As far as I'm concerned, there's no apology necessary. As we all found in August, there's plenty of room for fun inside the lines.

[TampaYankee]

To answer your question on 'Where's the harm?', I guess for me the harm would come if they found themselves attracting behavior they didn't want, or losing members they did want, and that could eventually jeopardize the site.

lookin',

You clearly capture the concerns of management.

BTW, I love your art.

[MsGuy]

"At times these two views come into conflict. We try to seek a resolution without resorting to management fiat. Sometimes that is not possible. However distasteful it may be there are occasions when we are pushed to do things we had rather not have to resort to. This is such occasion."

And if/when HoovilleRico pops up next week to announce the deed is done and to remind folks to view the carnage, what then?

----

TY, I'm glad I don't have to deal with this. I'm sorry you do.

----

Matrix, I've confessed before that I enjoy gawking a good dustup as much as anybody. Something about this one, though, struck me as unpleasant, left me feeling sad, upset.

I don't come here to feel sad or upset. I come here to have fun playing with the other posters, to look at the pretty pictures and laugh at Lookin's visual puns. Make me feel sad often enough and I'll drift away. I'd miss some of the people here, though, so maybe not.

----

Lookin, I've been thinking about your post on the locked thread ever since you posted it but nothing has quite jelled yet. It always feels good to be prodded into thinking about something I never would have thought to question on my own. Clouds, silver linings; thank you, that helps. Maybe I'll post something here later.

----

Edit: Oops, just saw that TY started a new thread for Lookin's post.

TY. you're a sweet, clever boy when you set your mind to it.

[Lucky]

I guess I'm curious about these thread closures of late. So I'm going to ask. Why?

This latest one with the Hooville News while obviously a titillating thread had more view hits than any other non locked thread on the page - and within less than 24 hours.

Obviously people were interested or they would not have kept reviewing it...

If people can't responsibly select what they view for themselves without moderation, then they probably shouldn't be in adult forums to begin with, even if, people are engaging in less than adult behavior.

This recent thread obviously had people's interest. Hence the view count.

Absent threats and abhorrent behavior(s) against nature, I think these type threads should run themselves out on their own merit, by themselves and by viewer click count and participation. They usually always do.

Just my humble opinion, but really where is the true harm in it all?

The harm in it all is exactly where you get your thrills.

[Guest Matrix]

No harm at all if you are not the target. That is the way it is in blood sports.

I don't want to beat a dead horse here, but honestly, where was, or is, this so called target? I saw no target nor did I see any blood sport action taking place anywhere. Did I miss out on some pay-per-view action because I'm not a paying member here?

From my seat, FourAces was called out on being the original Rico and other such stuff, but ONLY after FourAces chimed into the thread twice and put himself in the middle of that discussion and what was going on within it.

That doesn't make him a target, that makes him a participant in the thread. Does it not? The HoovilleRico guy might have been a cocky smart-ass about his response, but do we really censor cocky smart-ass people around here now too?

So I guess I'm confused because there was no victim here at this point and unless you want to suggest that maybe next week, somewhere and at sometime, someone was going to be exposed as something or the other - there is no victim here and there certainly has been no blood sport from what I can see.

A presumptive strike down of a thread for what it could have been or for what it might have become? Really? Is that the stance members here and management want to take?

What if this whomever, HoovilleRico guy, was gong to announce something beneficial to all - make it whatever you view beneficial to yourself here. Or even if it wasn't beneficial to all - there really was no forum rules broken here, no victim left helpless in a bloodied gutter - just a new poster, announcing a new blog, with a story of interest to all. From what he said.

So why the censorship before the act? If I posted that I was going to blog next week about someone here, would I be censored as well?

Look. This guy Julio-Hooville-Rico might have been here to stir up trouble, I just don't know. But the fact that he was censored by presumption alone, is no different than what they are doing in the State of Arizona right now. If I presume you to be an illegal alien, then I shall treat you as such and punish you with the powers that have been invested to me by the great state....etc.

Really? Is this what's happening here? Is this really where people want to go?

Because it sure does feel and look that way to me.

[Guest FourAces]

Matrix with all respect ...

If you saw a man accidentally spill gasoline on himself and at the same moment a woman standing next to him was about to light a match would you not act? I think you would.

Believe me I am not happy about any heavy handed censorship we probably can all agree that we have seen enough of that over at the other place. But once in a while its best to clean the brush away from your house before the Santa Ana winds kick in.

I cannot blame TY for not wanting anybody to use his site to promote their negative agenda.

The poster clearly came here to create problems. He starts by selecting a name that he knows will get attention then posts a link to a blog that has been inactive for several years. A blog that aimed and attacked ... come on Matrix the guy did not create a good first impression

Anyway, hope you are enjoying your holiday weekend.

Cheers!

[Guest Matrix]

If you saw a man accidentally spill gasoline on himself and at the same moment a woman standing next to him was about to light a match would you not act?

With respect as well Aces, I just don't see the gasoline or the match. Aside from the guys last post about you, there really was nothing, as I mentioned above, IMHO. And that last post, seemingly, is what got the thread closed.

[AdamSmith]

Look. In 99 cases out of 100, it is plain when someone is posting in good will, attempting to originate or further relevant dialog (even irrelevant, as I so often am guilty of) on an online forum. In the other 1/100 of cases, it is equally plain when someone is posting out of obvious intent to stir shit and inflame other posters and in general throw jellied gasoline around, without any remotest interest in inciting genuine discourse about this or that topic.

Even when threads veer into the most incendiary insults of one poster toward another, it is more than clear when posts are staying on-topic.

Some of the threads referenced directly or indirectly above have been blatantly obvious attempts to poison this forum with topic-less invective and sewage. This is 'intuitively obvious,' as the more enlightened logicians like to say.

'A thing is what it is, and not something else.' -- Wittgenstein.

[Guest twinklover]

It was quite clear to me that the thread was an announcement/threat of a forthcoming personal attack upon at least one MER poster. It's not hard to figure out "hoo".

HoovilleRico said: "Speaking of sweating, I hear the temperatures are going to get more than uncomfortably hot in the desert next week when we premiere our first breaking report on the blog.

Will Daddy be able to stand the desert heat? Will this failed two-faced revenge tactic tarnish an unlucky villainess forever? This is almost theatrical in the worst kind of way."

"It just so happens that our first report is going to shock, embarrass and probably humiliate a certain well known individual who posts on this, and of past of course, over at the Hooville forum."

With my colleagues, Matrix and Aces, I have a problem with most forms of censorship, heavy-handed or not. I have a long history speaking out against it over at Atkol, m4m and other forums, and joined EscortSpeak in its "heydey" as a kind of protest to m4m forum censorship and meltdowns. I don't take any form of censorship lightly.

The "Hooville News" thread was locked, with no further posts allowed. It was not deleted. Posts were not modified or eliminated. The administration is saying, "Move on. We won't allow our site to be used to attack and harass our members, and that includes rabblerousing announcements of a forthcoming attack." Given the longstanding ground rules and practices of the MER fourm, that's fair enough to me.

I trust this administration to act in good faith, whereas censorship at other sites seemed to be done selectively with favoritism and in the most self-serving ways.

If "HoovilleRico" goes through with his threat after Labor Day and if there is more commentary about it here, the administration will go through another round or two of this. Relax, we've all seen flame-ups before and we'll all be over it in a week or so.

[TampaYankee]

I don't want to beat a dead horse here, but honestly, where was, or is, this so called target? I saw no target nor did I see any blood sport action taking place anywhere...

So I guess I'm confused because there was no victim here at this point and unless you want to suggest that maybe next week, somewhere and at sometime, someone was going to be exposed as something or the other - there is no victim here and there certainly has been no blood sport from what I can see.

A presumptive strike down of a thread for what it could have been or for what it might have become? Really? Is that the stance members here and management want to take?

Look. This guy Julio-Hooville-Rico might have been here to stir up trouble, I just don't know. But the fact that he was censored by presumption alone.

Clearly, I give HoovilleRico more respect that you do. We have presumed nothing. Actions were based on HoovilleRico's own words of his stated intent.

It just so happens that our first report is going to shock, embarrass and probably humiliate a certain well known individual who posts on this...

You seem to not take him at his word or discount it until you see blood on the floor.

We took a wait and see attitude at the initial post to see what his intent actually was. However, after his clarification there was no uncertainty left as to his intent.

He is using our site as a resource to aid and abett his agenda against his to-be-named victim. We choose not to participate in the staging of his drama.

[Guest Matrix]

It just so happens that our first report is going to shock, embarrass and probably humiliate a certain well known individual who posts on this...

You seem to not take him at his word or discount it until you see blood on the floor.

Clearly, I give HoovilleRico more respect that you do.

Many media outlets seem to often suck people into their programming by saying or promising one thing and then conversely offering quite another when you actually tune in. So it's not always something you can bank on, to be true to word, especially when you are using it as a presumptive tool to silence a base of expressive thought through an act of protectionism for others.

Perhaps you did give more credit to HoovilleRico than I did here.

"It just so happens that our first report is going to shock, embarrass and probably humiliate a certain well known individual who posts on this..."

Many individuals in our society are personally shocked, embarrassed and even humiliated everyday through the reporting of their deeds in the media and else-where. Often times in this new age of communication it is a blogger or even a tweeter, that breaks news ahead of what was once considered mainstream media.

HoovilleRico also stated: "I also can say with confidence that after our report is published, there will be few if anyone, I expect, who will not stand up and say "well done - that mother-fucker." In some cases a few might even feel compelled to say thanks."

Perhaps here I gave more credit to HoovilleRico than you. My ying to your yang?

I don't think it's a bad thing at all for people to be exposed for there wrong-doings, even if it is shocking, embarrassing or even publicly humiliating for them.

John Edwards, Bill Clinton, Richard Nixon, the George Rekers Rentboy scandal, FoxNews Channel as a whole ( ) Martha Stewart, the catholic church and so on; are all examples of righteous embarrassment and humiliation.

Should these people have been protected through silencing the outlet which broke their story to begin with to the public?

I would have to say no and I don't think many would argue with that either.

Clearly, the situation here might be somewhat different, but we won't really know that for sure now because we have silenced an outlet before they could speak.

I have no idea about what this story might be. But what if, let's just say for argument, it is really important news about someone amongst us that has caused harm to others and perhaps can or will do so again. Perhaps a rapist, a child molester, a theif or even the cupcake scammer himself!

What if this was the only outlet for news and information on the planet?

If this was, and if the above possibilities were to be true, then we would all have been protected only from our own well being and our own personal security. And that's the truth which is also very sad.

I attempt not to change the thought of anyone here, just to expand it a bit.

I respect what has been done in this matter by TY - I just happen to have a different point of view than he does.

[Lucky]

One of the downsides of message boards is that they attract sick people who need attention, have no respect for the board or for those who post on it, are willing to go to any lengths to stir the shit, and then sit and laugh when the trouble they cause erupts. There is always someone on the board there to defend them and their right to behave in such a fashion. That someone is usually a guy who contributes nothing of his own to start with and has little stake in seeing the message board go up in flames.

Fortunately we have learned that these things do blow over, the sicko loses interest and moves on, or people lose interest in him and he has no further purpose.

The latest guy wants to post in advance that he has some dirt coming. Well, I doubt it, and if he had any good dirt, it would be out there already. Anyone can say anything- it doesn't make it true.

[TampaYankee]

There is always someone on the board there to defend them and their right to behave in such a fashion. That someone is usually a guy who contributes nothing of his own to start with and has little stake in seeing the message board go up in flames.

Based on my years in forums, I believe that is a generalization that goes way too far. I recall some of my jousting partners of years past as well as many others who believed in complete lassaiz-fare but were interesting contrbutors on their own right. I feel that it is probably the rule more than the exception.

I just believe that different poeple have different views about the subject. Certainly, there is room for disagreement on the issue without being broadly judgmental? Everyone is entitled to a view.