Is Liberal now a dirty word?

[KYTOP]

I watch alot of Cable News and I've noticed that few ever use the word "Liberal" anymore. Liberals and even the news commentators now use the word "Progressive". When did it become a dirty word to be called a Liberal? Are people ashamed be Liberal or is it just a new PR campaign to rebrand?

It seems Conversatives seem to wear that label with honor, even with all the extremism that can go with the Conservative label. I remember Bush tried the Compassionate Conservative label.

For the record I am a PROUD Moderate. I walk in step to no particular party and agree with some Liberal (ahhhhhh,,,,, Sorry) Progressive ideas and some Conservative ideas. I am the guy that most politicians are scared of because I actually try to research a person and I vote for both Democrats and Republicans.Since Independents cannot vote in Primaries here in my state I am registered with one of the major parties and have actually changed my registration a few times.

[MsGuy]

IMO, conservatives have been fairly successful in inserting connotations such as knee-jerk, leftist, nanny state, eliteist and the like into the word "liberal" in the general public discourse. Liberals have been considerably less successful in associating the word "conservative" with wingnut, extremist, bigot, etc. As it's a disadvantage to have to expend one's resources constantly explaining what one is not, liberals choose other less defined words to self-identify. Hence "progressive."

Not much different from homosexuals choosing "gay" over "faggot" when you get down to it.

[Guest restless]

IMO, conservatives have been fairly successful in inserting connotations such as knee-jerk, leftist, nanny state, eliteist and the like into the word "liberal" in the general public discourse. Liberals have been considerably less successful in associating the word "conservative" with wingnut, extremist, bigot, etc. As it's a disadvantage to have to expend one's resources constantly explaining what one is not, liberals choose other less defined words to self-identify. Hence "progressive."

Not much different from homosexuals choosing "gay" over "faggot" when you get down to it.

Yeah. I was thinking when reading KYTOP's comment - well, better add "liberal" to the list of shit people could say about me.

[TotallyOz]

I guess I am a proud Liberal. But, I am open to many parties. I was leaning toward McCain until he went Kooky and picked his VP running mate. If he had picked my mayor, Michael Bloomberg, I would then have learned in their direction. I am tired of all politicians. That includes the Liberal ones. I want a businessman in the White House. Someone like Steve Jobs. Let him IPad the White House. I'd even go for Donald Trump as I can't stand him. But, I don't think he would do a worst job than anything we've had in the past. If nothing else, he would be able to add some gold touches to the White House bathrooms. My contender for the next 2012 White House is Kimbo Slice. He might whoop them into shape.

[JKane]

I'm proudly a bed-wetting liberal! Wait, I don't have to say bed-wetting?

I'd say by far the biggest achievement (maybe the only one, dubious as it is) that the conservatives have had in 20 years is masterful control of the language, shaping the argument to remove facts and insert wedges. What they've managed to do to the debate of critically important issues with brilliant labels like 'death tax' and 'partial-birth abortion' makes my blood boil. (I still giggle at how childish they sound with 'democrat party' though.)

And it's no accident. They've put an amazing amount of effort, money and research into it, over generations really, until their think-tanks produced their kwisatz haderach: Karl Rove.

I'm fine with progressive until we let them take that away from us too...

[Guest restless]

I'm proudly a bed-wetting liberal! Wait, I don't have to say bed-wetting?

I'd say by far the biggest achievement (maybe the only one, dubious as it is) that the conservatives have had in 20 years is masterful control of the language, shaping the argument to remove facts and insert wedges. What they've managed to do to the debate of critically important issues with brilliant labels like 'death tax' and 'partial-birth abortion' makes my blood boil. (I still giggle at how childish they sound with 'democrat party' though.)

And it's no accident. They've put an amazing amount of effort, money and research into it, over generations really, until their think-tanks produced their kwisatz haderach: Karl Rove.

I'm fine with progressive until we let them take that away from us too...

Years ago I read the Carville/Maitlin book about their relationship and the election, and I found her POV interesting. She brought up the whole idea of an article of faith, and how the strategy was for everyone to speak in lock step and by the end of the day whatever they were saying were assumed to be true. I never forgot that, and now I see that all the time - it's been brought to light much more with Jon Stewart playing all their sound bites in rapid succession. They have defined not only the debate, but the language used in the debate.

Tangentially related, I was inspired by Tony Weiner's breakdown on the floor the other day. He just called them out and I was like, FINALLY!! But of course it died out by the next news cycle.

I don't like the dirty play they do, but the Dems have GOT to get it together and start being more vocal about the shit the GOP is up to. And they need to start defining the language used in the debate. Every good political catch phrase in the last 20 years has been invented by the GOP. It's time.

Sorry for the rambling.

[MsGuy]

They have defined not only the debate, but the language used in the debate.

And [Dems] need to start defining the language used in the debate. Every good political catch phrase in the last 20 years has been invented by the GOP.

O.J.'s dream team waltzed him out of the court room by defining the terms of his trial. Clever pols have been using this technique ever since Alcibiades.

[JKane]

And they need to start defining the language used in the debate. Every good political catch phrase in the last 20 years has been invented by the GOP. It's time.

I agree, but you really have to consider it's not just something they can flip a switch and start doing.

The Republicans have been focus-grouping their BS for 20 years in think tanks at great expense and with continuing dedication.

[Guest restless]

I agree, but you really have to consider it's not just something they can flip a switch and start doing.

The Republicans have been focus-grouping their BS for 20 years in think tanks at great expense and with continuing dedication.

OK, but WTF have the Dems been doing, thinking about issues instead?

Only kind-of kidding on that one. There is so much good shit out there to take down the GOPs with. I wish the left had an Ann Coulter - someone who would say, "I can't imagine why the right is against gay marriage - don't they want their preachers to be happy?"

[KYTOP]

OK, but WTF have the Dems been doing, thinking about issues instead?

Only kind-of kidding on that one. There is so much good shit out there to take down the GOPs with. I wish the left had an Ann Coulter - someone who would say, "I can't imagine why the right is against gay marriage - don't they want their preachers to be happy?"

Part of the problem is that conservatives out number Liberals by almost 2 to 1.

Take a look at the lastest Gallup polls on this:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/120857/conservatives-single-largest-ideological-group.aspx

People wonder why Fox News does so good? That is easy, they have a Conservative lean that covers 40% of the population plus many of the 35% of the Moderates in the country. MSNBC constantly gets beat in the ratings because they are playing to just 20% of the population.

[JKane]

OK, but WTF have the Dems been doing, thinking about issues instead?

Only kind-of kidding on that one. There is so much good shit out there to take down the GOPs with. I wish the left had an Ann Coulter - someone who would say, "I can't imagine why the right is against gay marriage - don't they want their preachers to be happy?"

We do: somebody with FAR more wit than Ann Coulter, and a smaller adam's apple. Bill Mahr.

A huge part of the problem is that Republicans automatically fall into line behind whomever has the most money. They do this automatic lockstep.

Democrats are, well, ridiculously democratic. Leadership is nearly impossible because everybody has an opinion, and if they don't agree exactly with what the group is doing they'll split off and do it on their own.

[Guest restless]

We do: somebody with FAR more wit than Ann Coulter, and a smaller adam's apple. Bill Mahr.

Ha! That made me laugh out loud like Chris Matthews does.

[JKane]

Part of the problem is that conservatives out number Liberals by almost 2 to 1.

Take a look at the lastest Gallup polls on this:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/120857/conservatives-single-largest-ideological-group.aspx

The problem there is most people don't know what the hell they're talking about when they label themselves a conservative!

When you ask people about issues the large majority are actually progressive. Things like abortion rights, social safety net, progressive income tax, access to health care, equal rights, etc., etc.

Conservatives crowing about these kind of polls smacks of 'The American Independent Party' claiming to be the third largest party.

But it shows again how the conservatives dominate the language and therefor the debate almost totally.

[BiBottomBoy]

I want Jello Biafra to run for president.

I guess I am a proud Liberal. But, I am open to many parties. I was leaning toward McCain until he went Kooky and picked his VP running mate. If he had picked my mayor, Michael Bloomberg, I would then have learned in their direction. I am tired of all politicians. That includes the Liberal ones. I want a businessman in the White House. Someone like Steve Jobs. Let him IPad the White House. I'd even go for Donald Trump as I can't stand him. But, I don't think he would do a worst job than anything we've had in the past. If nothing else, he would be able to add some gold touches to the White House bathrooms. My contender for the next 2012 White House is Kimbo Slice. He might whoop them into shape.

[Guest NeedSome]

Speaking as proud and flaming liberal, I've always thought a very large percentage of the republican party suffers from some sort of mass Stockholm Syndrome. That so many of them fail to analyze or even question the position that the nearly-fascist wing of the party espouses really mystifies me. Maybe it's true with the dems as well, and I don't notice because I'm one of them. Who knows. But I don't mean to castigate all republicans. I have more than a few very conservative friends with whom I very much enjoy discussing (arguing?) politics. They have well thought out beliefs and can have rational, fact-based arguments that don't resort to name calling, platitudes, and stereotypes. I'm sure that there are millions more like them, but we seldom hear from them because the GOP mouthpieces can only talk about death panels and mama grizzly bears. Kills me that our political leaders have descended to such a place that they can't have a rationale discussion of the issues anymore.

If you're a liberal and tired of being attacked, I always recommend James C's book "we're right they're wrong."

I feel like singing O Canada now.

[Guest restless]

The problem there is most people don't know what the hell they're talking about when they label themselves a conservative!

When you ask people about issues the large majority are actually progressive. Things like abortion rights, social safety net, progressive income tax, access to health care, equal rights, etc., etc.

Conservatives crowing about these kind of polls smacks of 'The American Independent Party' claiming to be the third largest party.

But it shows again how the conservatives dominate the language and therefor the debate almost totally.

It's like the one - ONE - poll that not only asked if they thought Obama was born in America - they ALSO asked them if they thought Hawaii was a state. As you can guess, the numbers were not encouraging.

No one knows what they fuck they are. Everyone says they're conservative, but ask them individual issue questions and they're all flaming liberals.

[BiBottomBoy]

It's like people who love having police departments and fire departments but then claim to be anti-socialism.