California gay marriage groups launch ballot fight

[TotallyOz]

SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - Gay rights activists hoping to win back the right to marry in California submitted a ballot proposal on Thursday for the November 2010 election -- a date deep-pocketed advocates have said is too soon.

Californians in November voted to ban same-sex marriage after courts made it legal in the spring. Advocates ever since have been debating when to challenge the ban, known as Prop 8, in the state, which is closely divided on the issue despite a social liberal reputation.

The Los Angeles group Love Honor Cherish filed a proposed state constitutional amendment that repeals the gay marriage ban and says churches would not be forced to perform any marriage.

"Marriage is between only two persons and shall not be restricted on the basis of race, color, creed, ancestry, national origin, sex, gender, sexual orientation, or religion," the proposed amendment says in part.

A new fight to win back the right is expected to cost tens of millions of dollars to mount, and smaller groups are leading the way for the 2010 challenge, hoping grass-roots success will convince and shame wary donors that it is not too soon to return to the polls.

Love Honor Cherish estimates it needs a million signatures of support by April to qualify as a ballot proposal. The state attorney general must approve the language before petitions are circulated,

Social conservatives with strong grass-roots organizers of their own say they are confident of winning again.

Californians' 2008 vote to ban same-sex marriage, months after the state's top court legalized it, bolstered the power of social conservatives and sparked nationwide protests among gays and their allies. It was followed by legalization of gay marriage in a handful of mostly Northeastern states and a court challenge aimed at the U.S. Supreme Court. (Reporting by Peter Henderson; Editing by Doina Chiacu)

http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNew...E58O09820090925

[MsGuy]

I don't know squat about the ins and outs of gay politics in California, but it strikes me that an attempt by marginal gay groups to coerce established organizations and long term donors into a repeal campaign in 2010 against their best judgment is about as sure a recipe for defeat as can be imagined. With any luck at all these groups will fail to gather the required signatures and a unified effort can be organized for 2012.

I find it difficult to take anyone capable of this kind of self-indulgence seriously.

[Guest StuCotts]

I think the moment has passed. When the iron was hot California gays let the opportunity slip by out of complacency. Now they'll have to live a long time with the consequences.

[Guest twinklover]

I live in California and followed the Proposition 8 battle and court cases closely. No on Proposition 8 was ahead in the polls until the final weeks of the election when supporters of Prop 8 ran a smear campaign about gay marriage being taught in classrooms, etc. and No on Prop 8 seemed to grow complacent and did not reassure voters. No on Prop 8 won decisively in Northern California coastal counties including the Bay Area. Yes on Prop 8 won decisively in the usual Republican counties. The surprise to me was the big enchillada of Los Angeles. One might have expected LA to vote No on 8 following the Bay Area. But LA didn't, voting about 51 to 49 Yes on Prop 8. If Prop 8 is to be overturned, the vote in LA must be reversed and that especially means convincing minority voters--Blacks, Latinos, Asians--who voted for Democrats to also vote in favor of gay marriage. There is much room to improve the vote in San Diego as well as LA. That is where the political battle will be won or lost.

Is it too soon to put this on the ballot? My gut tells me "yes." We'll see.

One of the most compelling reasons to support gay marriage is to rationalize California laws. Remember that there were many gay marriages performed after the California Supreme Court's landmark decision In Re Marriage Cases and before Prop 8 was enacted (a time period of approximately six months). These gay marriages remain legal and valid. Prop 8 was interpreted not to be retroactive. This leads to a very strange situation where there are quite a few legally married gay couples but gay marriage is banned for everyone else. Once the irrationality and unfairness of this situation becomes apparent, and once the fears of supporters of Prop 8 are not realized despite the fact that California does recognize some pre-Prop 8 gay marraiges, I think the voters will come around to approving gay marriage as a fait accompli. But it will take some time for this logic to sink into the minds of straight voters.

[MsGuy]

Can't find fault with your reasoning, Twinklover.

As a tactical consideration California Gays should understand that the electorate for the 2010 congressional elections will skew considerably older compared to that of the 2008 presidential election. Waiting for the 2012 election would lighten the load.

[KYTOP]

I think that if it is defeated again, so close to the first, that will kill its chances for several years to come. Isn't there a California Governor election in 2010? Wonder how that might affect the results and turnout?

[MsGuy]

I think you're right, KYTOP. Back to back defeats, especially if the Prop. 8 supporters increase their margin, would put paid to any effort to repeal in 2012. I'm not sure a gubernatorial election would help all that much unless the Dems manage to nominate a candidate with the ability to gin up a strong enthusiastic turnout amonst young voters.

[JKane]

I think you're right, KYTOP. Back to back defeats, especially if the Prop. 8 supporters increase their margin, would put paid to any effort to repeal in 2012. I'm not sure a gubernatorial election would help all that much unless the Dems manage to nominate a candidate with the ability to gin up a strong enthusiastic turnout amonst young voters.

I agree, I really doubt the state Dems are capable of nominating anybody exciting. I'm betting it'll be Diane Feinstein in the end... I'd sooner vote for a potted plant, myself. Who knows, the closest thing to excitement may be in the primaries!

BUT who's to say the midterms would be any more exciting? At least with the gubernatorial there'll be people pissed about the (COMPLETE lack of) direction Arnold's set for the state...

[BiBottomBoy]

Way too soon. And it's going to distract the state from disucssions on how to fix their financial woes.

[JKane]

Way too soon. And it's going to distract the state from disucssions on how to fix their financial woes.

Didn't you hear??? Arnold's got the answer!!!

Cut the taxes on all Californians making more that 1 million a year by over $100,000 dollars, that'll fix the state budget shortfall...

(I wish I was kidding, this IS his latest proposal!)

[BiBottomBoy]

How to fix the california economy:

1. Legalize gay marriage, but put a hefty tax on all marriage licenses.

2. Completely legalize pot and cocaine, with a hefty tax on both.

3. Ditto for high end escorts.