New Contest

[TotallyOz]

I enjoyed the last contest and am thinking of doing another one related to posting of reviews. Any suggestions? comments? grips? prize suggestions?

[Lucky]

I enjoyed the last contest and am thinking of doing another one related to posting of reviews. Any suggestions? comments? grips? prize suggestions?

For a reward, a weekend with Andre would work just fine to motivate me. After all, I have posted two reviews here, and although there are guys that have posted more, they did so because they could afford to hire more escorts than I can. See the logic there? Those of us who post the fewest reviews should be rewarded so we can afford to post another review.

[stevenkesslar]

I enjoyed the last contest and am thinking of doing another one related to posting of reviews. Any suggestions? comments? grips? prize suggestions?

If you want people to post more reviews, here's my suggestions:

1. Don't post negative reviews that are fake, or at least flag them so readers know they are likely fake. If a lot of frequent contributors, (lets say 18 reviewers and escorts, with a total of 31, 721 posts) say a review is fake, and offer ideas about how to deal with it, don't insult them by refering to their contributions as "that gawdawful threat" [sic] like some other site administrator does.

2. Don't post fake positive reviews of escorts that don't exist, like some other site does. It confuses clients who try to hire them.

3. Don't ban people who have over 1000 posts because you don't like the way they express their opinions. We're all grown ups. It would be especially bad to refuse to censor a review that is fake, and then censor a frequent contributor who is real because he has the nerve to criticize you.

4. Don't remove all cocks and asses from escort's photos, because you don't want to take the risk of getting nailed for a law that is unenforced, even though you are perfectly happy to let escorts, who you think of as your children, twist in the wind while anonymous posters trash them with fake reviews. In other words, don't be a hypocritical wuss when it comes to risk.

5. Most important, don't act like a child with a bad temper, who lashes out at people you think of as your children. It sets a really bad tone.

In my humble opinion, all of these things could have a chilling effect on people's interest and willingness to participate in your site. I happen to know another site where lots of my clients and frequent contributors pretty much don't like the administrator, and think he is whiny and isn't very bright, but everyone is afraid to say anything, because they fear they might get banned. I actually decided to stop posting on that site, because I think the guy running it lacks respect for his contributors. If I ran my escort business that way, I don't think I would have been around for 9 years and I don't think I would have gotten over 80 more or less flawless reviews.

I think honest perspectives, intelligent debate, and respect for people who take the time to contribute to a site are always a good policy. If you have that, you don't need gimmicks and contests.

If this kind of honesty is not appropriate on this site either, and if I am not supposed to be critical as well as funny or thoughtful, please let me know, and I'll silence myself before I offend you too. If candid discussion is appropriate, then I guess the prize is we all get to be grown ups participating in an intelligent, lively, funny, and appreciated blog site about the things that make us all hot and horny. There was this guy named Hooboy who created a site that did that, and I sure do miss it.

Thanks,

Steven

[TampaYankee]

...

I think honest perspectives, intelligent debate, and respect for people who take the time to contribute to a site are always a good policy. If you have that, you don't need gimmicks and contests.

If this kind of honesty is not appropriate on this site either, and if I am not supposed to be critical as well as funny or thoughtful, please let me know, and I'll silence myself before I offend you too. If candid discussion is appropriate, then I guess the prize is we all get to be grown ups participating in an intelligent, lively, funny, and appreciated blog site about the things that make us all hot and horny. There was this guy named Hooboy who created a site that did that, and I sure do miss it.

Thanks,

Steven

Steven, clearly you have strong feelings that you were moved to give voice to. I cannot respond to all of your points about other sites. What I can say is that Oz and I founded this site because the passing of HooBoy left a great void in the community and we had issues with other sites.

We wanted to establish a level playing field for clients and escorts where each side got fair and equal treatment and all individual escorts were treated equally.

We also wanted a review site that offered substantive reviews, not vague praise or cryptic slams.

Also we wanted a review site that offered honest reviews, not fake self-serving reviews. We take seriously our obligation to provide a review library with information integrity, not just endless entries of indiscriminant prose. We make an earnest effort to ferret out fake reviews whether by self-serving escorts or apparent 'clients' pushing an agenda. Our review rejection rate is better than one out of two, whether for vague or insufficient information content or for suspect credibiity. It is a fact that many of our rejected reviews (for both reasons) have appeared elsewhere.

Oz and I run a site for adults who deserve to be treated as adults and are expected to act as adults. We respect our clientele and we hope we deserve their respect.

Finally, your comments are always welcome here whether to add to the intelligent debate or to point out concerns about us, our site, or the industry. We value debate and appreciate participation by everyone.

Competition provides contributors and particpants with a choice about product quality, standards, and site ambience. In the end the contributors and particpants get what they are willing to settle for.

TY

[Lucky]

Steven, if your remarks are about Hooville and Daddy, they seem inconsistent with what you had previously posted on the subject. When and why did you change your mind?

From Steven Kesslar:

I am not assuming Daddy has reason to believe anything. In this situation, or some future one, he may not be in a position to prove anything. And part of the problem is you are right that simply by posting the review, it could suggest that Daddy has reason to believe the meeting did occur.

This is a pretty rare situation. As far as I can recall, most escorts that get bad reviews don't claim the reviewer never even met them. In a situation like that, I don't know how either side could prove anything, or why Daddy would want to get in the middle of a 3 way like that. (Unless he gets to remove sperm samples from Kristian as evidence).

To me, the value of a flag would be that it would be rare. I'm not suggesting Daddy should get in the business of judging the quality of reviews.

***********

One of the things I like most about this site is that it is mostly open-ended and collaborative. I just got spanked by Daddy because I set up a signature picture with a cock shot, and he reminded me, appropriately, that his ass is on the line for a big fine if he is found to be in violation of the law. That seems totally appropriate to me, and besides I like it when Daddy spanks me. :-) But on something like this, where there is no federal law, I like the fact that the people who contribute to the site, both escorts and clients, have a say in setting policy.

__________________

Steven

************

And just so I am very clear, my point is not that Daddy should kill negative reviews or second guess critical things that clients say in those reviews.

*****

When I was being roughed up on the message center I appreciated the people who stuck up for me, including Daddy.

*************

As I said repeatedly, you are a fair-minded judge, and I appreciate that.

I'm bending over. You may spank me if you wish.

And I promise to be quiet now.

[Guest Conway]

Very nice post, TY. You have captured the spirit and function of this site well.

Steven, let's not make this site a "bitch about daddy" site. That's what escortspeak was and, well, we all know how successful that was as a long term endeavor.

TY and Oz have worked hard to create a uniquely different site. Opinion matters here and has since day one. Personalities are secondary until such a time as posters ignore the gentle prodding of the moderators not to make them primary.

The model works well. People can agree to disagree here without personal attacks and fear of reprisals from management.

I'm certainly not aware of any fake reviews here. If there are any, the standards that TY and Oz have set here are such that they will generally be exposed.

The only favoritism I have seen here is toward Andre. And it seems based upon the fact that he is favored by the participants here because he is one awesome fuck rather than due to some relationship with the publisher.

Most awesome fuck= most favored status. That's the way it should be, right?

This site stands well on its own. We don't need to bitch about the shortcomings of other publishers to make it better.

Oz, as for the contest, I think that we should award a weekend with Andre to the guy who has missed the most opportunities to hire him due to excessive business travel.

[Lucky]

Here's one more comment that Steven made on the Hooville site:

I can't imagine my escort career without this site. Most of my time with clients these days is spent with regulars I have known for years, and almost all of them are people who found me on this site, despite the fact that I've probably had profiles up on over a dozen sites at various times. That's not a coincidence. I learned early on that this is the "thinking man's" site, and that people who actually make thoughtful decisions about who and why to hire, and are able to communicate about their sexual needs and wants, are almost always more fun to be with. People with those characteristics are attracted to this site, which is mostly about thoughts and words, not cock and ass shots like most other escort sites.

Mostly, that thoughtfulness has been reflected on this message board whenever I've tuned in or posted something. I've refered lots of people who hired me to it, both to protect them from making bad hiring decisions, and because I thought it was a cool forum to talk about all kinds of things relating to escorting and being gay.

***************

Now understand that I am not saying I disagree with everything he has to say today, but it is a very big change from what he has said before, and I am curious what brought it about. I can't think of another site to which he could be referring.

[stevenkesslar]

Very nice post, TY. You have captured the spirit and function of this site well.

Steven, let's not make this site a "bitch about daddy" site.

Couldn't agree with you more, Conway. The last private email I exchanged with Daddy had only four words, and it captures my philosophy on the subject: "Best of lucky Daddy."

In terms of a specific discussion about Daddy, since somebody mentioned the guy by name, thats really about all I have to say. I don't want to start a bitch and moan session, let alone a bitch and moan site. TY's comments are totally right on: personality should be factored out of things, whether its my personality, Daddy's, or anybody else's. Thats generally what happens when people are treated like adults, and expected to act like adults.

That also is the answer to your question Lucky. Everything you quoted me as saying about the integrity of the other site stands. There are lots of great escorts, clients and posters on that other site who have all kinds of interesting and intelligent things to say, many of whom I am learning have similarly interesting things to say on this site as well. You are a perfect example of that. I did not see a reason for my feelings about the integrity of the site administrator to get in the way of all the great things about the site itself. Why rain on everybody else's parade, or try to tear down something that so many people value? That's certainly not an escort thing to do. We're HAPPY people.

I think I am a man of my word. As your long quote of my statements reflects, I promised Daddy I would be quiet, and I have been. I do think Daddy knows best. It should not be a surprise that often times Daddy is right, and his children are wrong. That often happens in families. In a situation like that, OF COURSE Daddy is a fair minded judge. If you were a Daddy, you wouldn't want your children to feel any differently, would you? Hell, I'm sure it even works that way in the Obama family. You think those sweet kids ever question the judgment of the leader of the free world? Mostly, I will always think of Daddy as simply being Daddy. And for those people who want a Daddy, and need a Daddy.....well, there he is, for everyone to know and love.

Finally, I used to think that the idea of having multiple escort review sites was confusing. There was an efficiency to having one site that everyone went to called "Hooboy's reviews." Having said that, given the way things have played out and the various feelings that are out there about various site administrators, including my own, perhaps it best serves the interests of the community of escorts, and the people who hire them, to have a couple sites. Hopefully this raises, rather than lowers, the standard for everyone, including moi.

Thanks for demonstrating thoughtfulness, as well as sexiness.

Steven

[MsGuy]

Steven, maybe there's something going on behind the scenes I'm not aware of but I honestly don't recognise this site in your post. Aren't your points directed mostly at difficulties you have with the other site?

As to the policy on photos, it's easy say a law is unenforced when it's not your butt that's on the line. I would guestimate that a first class law firm would demand a retainer north of $50,000 to accept this kind of case, more if an AG were involved. If the current CL hoopla has taugh us anything, it's that you never can tell when an ambitious local DA or state AG is going to crawl out from under some rock and bite you in the ass. The type of pictures you are asking for would add little of value to MER but would look just lovely if presented to a jury. No point in putting nails and a prefab cross in the hands of the centurions.

P.S. Our posts crossed in the mail. You already answered my question.

[Lucky]

Steven, I was mainly surprised at your post as it seemed inconsistent with what I perceived your views to be. I am sure however that you will be most welcome here, especially with 17,936 other members to keep you company! They are mostly a quiet bunch though...

[stevenkesslar]

Steven, maybe there's something going on behind the scenes I'm not aware of but I honestly don't recognise this site in your post. Aren't your points directed mostly at difficulties you have with the other site?

As to the policy on photos, it's easy say a law is unenforced when it's not your butt that's on the line. I would guestimate that a first class law firm would demand a retainer north of $50,000 to accept this kind of case, more if an AG were involved. If the current CL hoopla has taugh us anything, it's that you never can tell when an ambitious local DA or state AG is going to crawl out from under some rock and bite you in the ass. The type of pictures you are asking for would add little of value to MER but would look just lovely if presented to a jury. No point in putting nails and a prefab cross in the hands of the centurions.

P.S. Our posts crossed in the mail. You already answered my question.

Yeah, you got my point. I like to put my tongue in all sorts of places, and the comment about not allowing photos with cocks and asses was definitely tongue in cheek. As the photo below of me makes clear, this site does allow them, which was my point. Personally, I'm very glad to have my cock back, since somebody else somewhere else took it away a few years back.

Anybody involved in escorting, whether its as an escort, or someone who hires them, or someone who runs a site that reviews them, is taking a calculated risk. All our asses are on the line. As Lucky pointed out in quoting me, one of the reasons I have placed such value on an escort review site, as opposed to the many sites that just have the hot and horny photos, is that it definitely has the effect of protecting EVERYBODY from bad situations - bad hires, bad clients, bad laws, whatever. So if somebody decides to censor explicit photos because they don't want to risk running afoul of the law, I'm sympathetic.

Having said that, just about every escort site out there, including this one, shows pictures with cocks and asses, and I am not aware that any of those sites have run into any problems. What put me over the edge is that someone would censor photos everybody wants to see, because they don't want to accept any risk, but they won't censor "information" everyone thinks is false, even if it puts others at risk, and they will censor contributors who don't speak in a way that is considered polite, even if the people who are being censored consider it hurtful. None of this is black and white, but it seemed like a situation where the calculation of risk was very one-sided. In a situation that does not seem fair, and is unalterable, there's good reason to just be quiet.

But that's just my opinion. From the perspective of someone who is always right, I'm sure everything they do is fair, and there is really no reason to try to change their mind, right Lucky? After all, since you like to hold people accountable to what they said, heres what you said in "that gawdawful threat" [sic] that summed it up perfectly: "And with all love and respect to you too, Daddy, I think your reply is beneath you. You of all people should be willing to first protect the integrity of your reviews. Having butted heads with you before, I know this is the end of the line on this subject. But I don't have to like it, no matter how many colors you've got." Sorry if I did not publicly agree at the time, but you really hit the nail on the head, especially about it being the end of the line. I can tolerate a lot of things, but not a lack of integrity, especially if that is the very value your site is supposed to add. (I do, however, love butting heads, or butts, or heads, or any combination therof). You asked the question, so theres your answer.

Anyway, in the spirit of Conway's post, I agree the best thing to do is value the unique things that THIS site offers, and support and build on its strengths, rather than using it to compare it to something else. You could argue that running an escort review site is a thankless task. To use your image, MsGuy, maybe the person doing it feels he is just constantly putting himself up on that cross, and getting nailed, with very little to show for it. Yet another reason to not spend much time and energy criticising any other site. I just wanted to feel comfortable this one is not run the same way. In that regard, Conway and Tampa Yankee said exactly what I was hoping to hear. Thanks again guys.

Now on to bigger, better, and sexier things. I just had a delicious hour of sex with a hot stud (speaking of putting my tongue all sorts of places), and tomorrow is the Day of Decision. I'll be down at the California Supreme Court and City Hall, recruiting innocents. Organize here, orgasm there. There's just so many fun things to do!

Steven

[Lucky]

I disagree with Daddy on many occasions, and I have been lucky enough to be able to tell him all of my gripes to his face. I've gotten nowhere. As for cocks with the pix, well, c'mon, we're gay. I agree that Daddy has little to fear by showing pix of guys who are clearly of age. He doesn't want to be involved in the record-keeping required, and, well, that's his choice. But it sure would spice up his site if he did. Ultimately though, we are just along for the ride. Both Daddy and Oz provide these forums to us free of charge, and while I give my opinions for free too, I hold none of the responsibility or take any of the risks.

[MsGuy]

IMO this thread is itself an example of MER at its best. Twelve posts worth of reasoned conversation and not a single sharp stick poked into anyone's eye.

However we did manage to hijack OZ's thread.

[TotallyOz]

However we did manage to hijack OZ's thread.

Well, I thought that everyone was just agreeing with Lucky's first post here that said he should get a weekend with Andre.

I have enjoyed the conversation here and EVERYONE is welcome to post or to just read here. I wish all 17k posted but that just doesn't happen. However, the rebuild of this site is looking great and I am excited about it.

Yeah, you got my point. I like to put my tongue in all sorts of places, and the comment about not allowing photos with cocks and asses was definitely tongue in cheek.

Steven, the more tongue the better. I also like things a bit cheeky! Welcome to the site and if your posts are as intelligent and well presented as above, I can't wait to read them all.

[MsGuy]

Well, the reductio of Lucky's argument is that I, not Lucky, should get the weekend with Andre because I haven't posted any reviews at all. I guess I can live with that.

[caeron]

Well, the reductio of Lucky's argument is that I, not Lucky, should get the weekend with Andre because I haven't posted any reviews at all. I guess I can live with that.

Nonsense. I've posted a few reviews, but not too many, this bear's review count is just right, and he should get a weekend with Andre.

Who votes the contest should be everybody who posts gets a weekend with Andre :-)?

[stevenkesslar]

Who votes the contest should be everybody who posts gets a weekend with Andre :-)?

Sheesh! I want a weekend with Andre. I NEVER get to have any fun!

[TownsendPLocke]

Ooooo I would LOVE to see that

[MsGuy]

Nonsense. I've posted a few reviews, but not too many, this bear's review count is just right, and he should get a weekend with Andre.

Who votes the contest should be everybody who posts gets a weekend with Andre :-)?

I concede to Caeron's superior vision. Everybody gets a weekend with Andre.

Just for the sake of clarity, does everybody get a separate weekend or do we all pile on together?

[AdamSmith]

I concede to Caeron's superior vision. Everybody gets a weekend with Andre.

Just for the sake of clarity, does everybody get a separate weekend or do we all pile on together?

He is going to be with me, ameliorating the pain of a business conference, from tomorrow evening through Saturday. I'll ask him which he prefers -- separate, or all together.

Which is actually to say: he who hesitates is lost! Much less he who sits around waiting to win a contest.

And I am unanimous in that.

[Lucky]

All very easy for Adam Smith to say, having just won the $1500 from the previous contest. So now he is having his fun with Andre, on Oz's dime! So the real winner of all of these contests is Andre. And that's as it should be.

[MsGuy]

All very easy for Adam Smith to say, having just won the $1500 from the previous contest. So now he is having his fun with Andre, on Oz's dime! So the real winner of all of these contests is Andre. And that's as it should be.

Wednesday night through Saturday? I'd wager that AdamSmith has topped up the envelope with a dime or two of his own.

[AdamSmith]

on Oz's dime!

This little excursus is not The Trip. Details thereof have yet to be decided.

Just yesterday kevin6669 sent me more photos of beautiful Thai boys from his last visit there, with notes on what $50 a night buys in that clime.

So many choices!

The Seer of Hartford notwithstanding.

[AdamSmith]

Wednesday night through Saturday? I'd wager that AdamSmith has topped up the envelope with a dime or two of his own.

A lady never discusses money.

Except to observe one should buy in bulk whenever possible.