Death of two (gay?) fifth graders

[MsGuy]

CNN did a segment last night on two separate cases of 11 year old boys who hanged themselves after prolonged bullying

at school. Seems the boys were labeled 'gay' by their classmates and hounded to their deaths. At least one parent repeatedly (7 or 8 times) asked the school for help and was ignored. The pictures of the last kid hit me pretty hard.

I realize that this is a darker topic than customary for this board, but the two guys with whom I would normally talk this through are both off on vacation. Hearing the reaction of others usually helps me organize my own thoughts. If I can, I'd rather avoid the other site as MinnieMoosie would inevitably throw a shovel of shit into the conversation.

For a start, I doubt either of the kids were in fact gay. And I can't see that it makes a whole lot of difference whether they were or they were not. The reluctance of the kids to seek help might bare looking at. The reaction, or lack of it, by the school personnel puzzles me. Even in my small Mid-South town, teachers are aware of the potential of law suits in this situation. I personally know of an effective intervention in a similar circumstance by a quite conservative and religious teacher. She thoroughly disapproves of homosexuality but acted out of simple compassion. One of the things I'm wondering about is whether there is any practical approach to modifying classmate behavior before this type of thing occurs.

As my lesbian friends might say, I haven't 'processed' all this yet. I'm still at the stage of reacting to a punch to my emotions. I spent my middle and high school years in a determined effort to avoid exactly the situation these kids found themselves in. Except for a searing 5 months in the 10th grade, I was successful, but this news brings back unpleasant memories. I hope that this thread will be helpful to those of you who have similar experiences just as I hope your thoughts will be to me.

[caeron]

I was sad when I read this story.

As a gay guy who got a ton of abuse in school, I sympathized. I thought of suicide quite seriously back then. It also angers me. I want to just beat these bullies with a 2x4.

[MsGuy]

I was sad when I read this story.

As a gay guy who got a ton of abuse in school, I sympathized. I thought of suicide quite seriously back then. It also angers me. I want to just beat these bullies with a 2x4.

As I read your post it occurred to me that many gay guys must have a form of traumatic stress disorder much like that acquired by soldiers in combat. I thought I had put that crap to rest 30 years ago, forgotten or forgiven all of it. But when I was looking at that 11 year old kid's face on tv, the anger and the sadness just flooded back into me. What I experienced last night matches perfectly with the emotions occasionally experienced by a couple of my Vietnam Vet friends when something in their enviroment triggers memories of the war. All these years and all that pain and gay kids are still being hounded to suicide by childish cruelty. I came out of the closet for two reasons and one was to make life a little easier for the kids following behind. Exactly as you say, Caeron, I just want to tear into them and the homophobic teachers who sat back and allowed it to happen.

Wow, I thought had calmed down. Just reading & replying to your post set me off again. I honestly didn't want this thread to turn into either a hate fest against straights or a pity session for gays. I wanted (still want) it to focus on the kids, understanding what happened and why. But going into denial about the emotions these events set loose won't work either. Maybe understanding our own reaction is part of understanding what happened to those boys.

Thanks for your post, Caeron. W/o you I would have slid back into denial about my real reaction. I don't like feeling hatred, but that's part of what I'm experiencing. I guess I need to look at that honestly too and deal with it. Lying to oneself is the worst kind of lying.

[caeron]

I used to fantasize about going back to the town I went to JR high school in and walking up to the door of one of my tormentors from that time and blowing him away.

I think a lot of us suffered through a lot of crap growing up. It's hard to come through that unscathed.

[BigK]

Very, Very sad. Teachers have a real responsibility to intercede with bullying of all types.

[MsGuy]

Very, Very sad. Teachers have a real responsibility to intercede with bullying of all types.

One of the things I'm trying to puzzle through is why they failed to act.

In both the Ed colleges in N.E. Mississippi, student teachers are taught to intervene in situations of severe bullying. Gay baiting is specifically discussed and different methods of effective intercession are covered. Whatever their personal beliefs may be, administrators at my local school district are very aware of the potential for substantial legal liabilities. They may or may not care about gay kids, but they care about their budget. I find it difficult to believe that these kids' schools are any more backward or conservative than the schools here. This isn't 1970.

To me it just doesn't seem credible that the schools' failure resulted from lack of knowledge or from lack of training.

[MsGuy]

I used to fantasize about going back to the town I went to JR high school in and walking up to the door of one of my tormentors from that time and blowing him away.

I think a lot of us suffered through a lot of crap growing up. It's hard to come through that unscathed.

Somehow in my 30's all that stuff started fading away. I hope it was the same for you. In my 20's, I crawled out of my foxhole and began seeking out gay friends. And I came out to my family and straight friends. No courage there, I just could not figure out how to stay in the closet and survive.

If suicide is still an issue for you (I hope it is not), you might try something that proved very helpful for me 35 years ago. I sat down and visualized that scared, desperate bewildered 15 year boy I was back in school. I remembered how ignorant he was about what was happening to him and how he could see absolutely no honorable path out of that horror. For that clueless kid there was only the bare hope the outside world might not be his small town writ large.

I thanked the kid for somehow struggling through all that pain. I thanked him for giving me my life. And I promised not to betray his struggle by giving up on my own.

Typed out here all that seems awfully nutty, but try it, it worked for me. Back then I didn't much like or respect that kid. Now I'm kind of proud of him for handling things as well as he did.