I want to by things NOT made in China=really I do

[TownsendPLocke]

But it is sooooooo dificult to find affordable(not cheap-just priced within reason)well made goods from the US and EU.

We need to get this country(and I am being "America First" here folks-sorry)back to where they are actually making more than they buy.I really strive to buy US made goods(and yes-I do drive an American made car)but sometime the greed factor of US based manufacturers is just too much.

Let's take shoes as an example.Up to a decade ago there were many US based shoe manufacturers.Now you will find a handfull.And of that handfull 2 make something other than sneakers(there might be a few more-but in my limited search that is what I have found)One prices its goods pretty well,but it has a very limited stock.The other has great looking shoes but at prices 3-5 times what comparable foreign made shoes sell for.

So my choices are ugly shoes,expensive shoes,or foreign made shoes-and with my fat feet that rules out EU made shoes which leaves us with Chinese made shoes.

Are you looking to keep your dollars at home to support your team?How is that going for you?

[Guest Conway]

Townie, I grew up in the textile belt of our nation. Our towns were full of non-union textile plants that provided good livings for many of our friends and neighbors. Beginning in the mid 90s, the labor jobs began disappearing- or, should I say, moving to Mexico and China as union organizers began encroaching on these plants.

The reality is that US Manufacturing was killed by two distinct things:

1. What I call the Walmart effect in which we (meaning consumers)want everything for a few pennies less than we can get it somewhere else.

2. The reality that Union labor has made all US products disadvantageous in cost to its foreign competition.

#2 is the reason that I have a problem with the current "auto bailout". In my mind, the US auto industry's model is broken. The foreign manufacturers who have opened plants in the US have proven that they can build as good or better a product with a better profit margin than US manufacturers can. No bailout is going to change the competitive advantage that Toyota, Honda, Nissan and BMW have in this country over our own domestic auto industry.

Both labor and management are going to need to play a serious role in supporting our auto industry with wage and benefit cuts if we're going to ever address that competitive advantage,

[TownsendPLocke]

Conway while I am no great fan of greedy union bosses making a buck off of anothers labor I have always believed that happy workers treated well(and sometimes that means beating the Unions at the benefits table)wil have no reason to look for Union representation.

But our US based"free market"economy does not believe in guaranteing that labor is respected and that certain standards(other than a laughable minimum wage-and even that is hated by free market republicans)so the Unions have been given this opportunity to step in and profit.

But of course this profit is short lived.As the plants and companies close or are allowed to move off shore the jobs evaporate and the union fees decline.But the Union bosses are as stupid and greedy as the empolyers and the legislators that have allowed the jobs to disapear.

Moving jobs back to our shores-and I am talking about manufacturing jobs not service/professional jobs-has to be priority number one IMO.The bailouts congress is handing out with wild abandon are a perfect opportunity to require the folks taking the "loans"to bring the jobs back to our shores.

[caeron]

I'm also a bit dubious of unions, but have little sympathy for companies that treat workers as expendable and then are surprised when their workers unionize and are hostile to the company.

I get the wonder of free markets, but I'm selfish and worry that we're bleeding out our nation to raise the standard of living for others. If the golden goose dies, what then? I have no answer though. I think most of the cures proposed are far worse than the disease.

[Guest Conway]

I agree with both of you with regard to labor. I would rather pay a bit more for an item made in the US by Americans. However, the inbalance between labor and management has become so fragmented, that it is hard for me to ever see them working together again.

Case in point would be the current "auto bailout" that is in the news.

The Japanese car manufacturers have proven that they can build a better product in American factories by hiring non-union American workers. The average US based Toyota auto worker makes $30 per hour. While the average GM worker makes $28 an hour. Wjhen one factors in the cost of benefits, particularly life pensions and healthcare for life, the total cost for a Toyota worker is $48 per hour while the total cost for a GM worker is $60 an hour.

The UAW basically crashed and burned the "bailout" because it failed to give in to concessions on lifetime healthcare and pensions for its members. The southern Republicans who led the opposition to the bailout did so because they recognized that the US Automaker's model was broken and that the infusion of bailout money had to be made with the understanding that both management and labor would have to contribute to the future profitability of the business by giving up outrageous executive compensation and long term pension and healthcare benefits.

I think that's a good move. Lifetime healthcare is unheard of in this country today and will become more obsolete as we move toward nationaliztion of healthcare.

[caeron]

I agree that the Healthcare issue is a back breaker for Detroit. We need to address this with some form of national healthcare. As someone who has a nice HMO, I don't want to lose what I've got, but it just isn't right that many do without anything at all. Companies can't carry this burden alone, it has to be addressed federally.

[Guest Conway]

I'm blessed with a great health plan through my job too. But, the reality is that my company hasn't made the commitment to pay for that health care for me through my retirement as the auto industry has for its current crop of retirees. At some point, I'm going to have to be reliant on Medicare if I cannot afford to pay my own way.

In Medicare, we have a national health plan for older Americans. No auto industry retirees would be without coverage if this private coverage went away.

It appears that the only way that these necessary changes are going to take place is through a Chapter 11 reorganization. That's why I prefer bankruptcy over a bailout. BK is a more appropriate vehicle to correct the ills of badly run businesses than a government bailout of the industry that doesn't address the root problems of the fundamentally unsound business.

The whole auto bailout thing kind of confounds me because it addresses excessive executive compensation (and rightfully so). But, it doesn't address excessive employee benefits that are a greater drag on both earnings and the company's liquidity. To truly turn around a fundamentally broken business model , like Chrysler or GM, you have to address both.

Throwing money at poorly run businesses is not the answer.

[Guest Conway]

Moving jobs back to our shores-and I am talking about manufacturing jobs not service/professional jobs-has to be priority number one IMO.The bailouts congress is handing out with wild abandon are a perfect opportunity to require the folks taking the "loans"to bring the jobs back to our shores.

The first step in that would be to repeal NAFTA. All that NAFTA did was provide US businesses with an opportunity to send jobs to Mexico to be performed at lower wages. I kind of laughed during the most recent election at all of the fingerpointing between Democrats and Republicans over NAFTA. After all, it had wide bi-partisan support when it was passed and ratified by a Republican Congress and the Clinton Administration.

Unfortunately, the jobs moved overseas by the companies bailed out are service jobs, largely in the banking industry. The problem with the American Auto industry is not that it is sending manufacturing jobs overseas. But, that its operating model here in the US is fundamentally uncompetitive with the model run by foreign manufacturers in US plants.

The era of big labor is about to come to an end as a result of this crisis.

[caeron]

I too have to wonder what I'm going to do about healthcare after I retire. I have a couple of pre-existing conditions that are likely to drive my premiums sky high in the private market. I think it would be great if we could get to the point where we all have a solid base of care, and then we can buy kicker policies to upgrade that.

[caeron]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/13/us/13smi...eld.html?ref=us

Interesting article on the unionization of the smithfield ham plant. Much he-said she-said, but in general it seems the company was really nasty about the unionization.

This quote I think really echoed the sentiments we expressed here:

“It feels great,†said Ms. Blue, who makes $11.90 an hour and has worked at Smithfield for five years. “It’s like how Obama felt when he won. We made history.â€

“I favored the union because of respect,†said Ms. Blue, who is black. “We deserve more respect than we’re getting. When we were hurt or sick, we weren’t getting treated like we should.â€

You wonder if this would have been an issue at all if the company had just treated their employees well.

As a manager, people talk all the time about how they want more money, but what they really respond to is positive feedback and feeling valued. (provided their money is reasonable, of course)

[Guest Conway]

For those of you who are finding it hard to understand the problems that exist with both labor and management, read the following article that appeared on the Fox News website (its ok, I won't tell anyone that you clicked on it). It seems that the UAW has been operating a resort and golf course at a substantial loss for the past few years using the hard earned dues of its members.

Now, it likely comes as no surprise to nearly all of you that I am pro-management for the most part. But, this clearly illustrates how broken both labor and management are in this misguided industry that GWB decided to throw $17B in his last days in office.

Saving the industry is going to take sacrifice- sacrifice from management in the form of salary and bonus concessions and sacrifice from labor in ending the pure waste within their own ranks as illustrated in the article:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,472304,00.html