Biden?

[BiBottomBoy]

Let's look at some of the things Joe's said about The Chosen One:

"I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy."

"a one-term, a guy who has served for four years in the Senate. ... I don't recall hearing a word from Barack about a plan or a tactic."

[Guest Conway]

I view the choice as a clear swing and a miss. Biden brings no voters to the table who weren't already in Obama's camp. He does nothing to deleiver rural Pennsylvania, rural Florida and rural Ohio. Without electoral victories in those states, Obama cannot win.

Kaine or Bayh would have provided a much greater potential of delivering those voters.

Obama has still failed to do what he needs to to capture the middle America vote that is so critical to his success on election day.

[BiBottomBoy]

Obama's campaign has been a clear series of swings and misses since Pennsylvania.

I can't believe the dems are actually going to blow this thing. Biden is an arrogant moron - and picking an inside the beltway white male will:

1. Piss off the Hillary people

2. Piss off the people who went for Obama because they wanted change.

3. Give the GOP lots of chances to trash Obama's decision making ability.

I want a floor fight at the convention.

I view the choice as a clear swing and a miss. Biden brings no voters to the table who weren't already in Obama's camp. He does nothing to deleiver rural Pennsylvania, rural Florida and rural Ohio. Without electoral victories in those states, Obama cannot win.

Kaine or Bayh would have provided a much greater potential of delivering those voters.

Obama has still failed to do what he needs to to capture the middle America vote that is so critical to his success on election day.

[Guest Conway]

This is a curious excerpt from an article from The State Newspaper of Columbia, SC in 2006 when Biden was still in the race for the Democratic nomination:

"Biden noted Delaware was 'a slave state that fought beside the North. That's only because we couldn't figure out how to get to the South — there were a couple of other states in the way."

I'm not sure how well that will go over with Obama's core supporters in the African American community.

[BiBottomBoy]

It's as though Obama wants to piss people off.

I can only assume that he's surrounded by really politically inexperienced douchebags who have been giving him awful advice for the past few months.

I think I'm going to go to Cafe Press and start making up Hillary '12 T-shirts and see how they sell.

This is a curious excerpt from an article from The State Newspaper of Columbia, SC in 2006 when Biden was still in the race for the Democratic nomination:

"Biden noted Delaware was 'a slave state that fought beside the North. That's only because we couldn't figure out how to get to the South — there were a couple of other states in the way."

I'm not sure how well that will go over with Obama's core supporters in the African American community.

[BiBottomBoy]

McCain is already running an ad about it:

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type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

It's as though Obama wants to piss people off.

I can only assume that he's surrounded by really politically inexperienced douchebags who have been giving him awful advice for the past few months.

I think I'm going to go to Cafe Press and start making up Hillary '12 T-shirts and see how they sell.

[BiBottomBoy]

Let's try that again!

McCain is already running an ad about it:

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name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="

type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[KYTOP]

Biden comes across as being arrogant and mean spirited. I thought in the Democratic debates he talked down to the others as if he thought they were idiots. His foreign policy experience is good but Obama takes a chance that Biden will over shadow him in that area, making Obama seem even less experienced. Biden also brings no other states to Obama'a side that he does not already have. Bayh would have gotten him the Republican state of Indiana and Kaine could have delivered Virginia.

[TotallyOz]

I am just at a total loss for words. What a fucking idiot this man is. The obvious choice was Hillary but he didn't have the balls enough to put her on the ticket. For the first time in my adult life, I don't think I'll have the balls enough to vote for a Republican but refuse to vote for Obama, so I am now at a loss as to what to do other than have great sex the day I am suppose to vote and sit my fat ass at home and watch the tele.

[BiBottomBoy]

Me too.

I always assumed that I'd vote for ANY democrat this time around - but Obama is making me question that.

It's not his policies it's the choices he's making during his campaign that make me wary of him being commander in chief.

I am just at a total loss for words. What a fucking idiot this man is. The obvious choice was Hillary but he didn't have the balls enough to put her on the ticket. For the first time in my adult life, I don't think I'll have the balls enough to vote for a Republican but refuse to vote for Obama, so I am now at a loss as to what to do other than have great sex the day I am suppose to vote and sit my fat ass at home and watch the tele.

[TampaYankee]

Not my first choice, Richardson was. However, very acceptable choice and a head above most others IMO. (Maybe we come from different planets? )

Bayh was at best a parochial choice with no guarantee of delivering IN -- a weak campaigner to boot. Same parochial choice with Kane, maybe with a better chance to bring VA along but with the added issue of being new on the scene sell.

Hillary never a contender. The combined ticket would soar among the Democratic primary voters, at best, pulling maybe 35 to 40 million voters. Far short of the 80+ million needed to win. Hillary still has the highest negatives save Bush and Cheney of any politicos out there. I know her believers cannot see that but the pollsters do. As late as this week 49% would never vote for Hillary.

[Guest EXPAT]

PLEASE PLEASE remember the bigger picture. We must elect a democrat if only for the federal court justice and supreme court justice seats that will become vacant. We CANNOT afford any more right wing conservative judges. Regardless of how we feel, as a gay community we can't afford any other choice.

[BiBottomBoy]

You'd prefer an incompetent democrat who will be bullied into middle of the road conservative judges over a republican who will be bullied into middle of the road conservative judges?

Sorry, I'd rather Hillary who would have the pull and the balls to push through real judges.

If I have to wait four years for that, fine. It's better than waiting eight years which is the other alternative.

It's all beside the point now anyway. He can't win.

PLEASE PLEASE remember the bigger picture. We must elect a democrat if only for the federal court justice and supreme court justice seats that will become vacant. We CANNOT afford any more right wing conservative judges. Regardless of how we feel, as a gay community we can't afford any other choice.

[Guest Conway]

PLEASE PLEASE remember the bigger picture. We must elect a democrat if only for the federal court justice and supreme court justice seats that will become vacant. We CANNOT afford any more right wing conservative judges. Regardless of how we feel, as a gay community we can't afford any other choice.

Honestly, I'm not sure that you should be so concerned about McCain in that regard. Whoever is President, be it McCain or Obama, is going to have to deal with a Democratic plurality in Congress. The next Supreme Court nominee will likely be a compromise candidate no matter who nominates him or her. I envision both McCain and Obama nominating philosophical moderate like Sandra Day O'Connor or Anthony Kennedy as opposed to a more idealistic justice like Clarence Thomas or a Ruth Bader Ginsburg.

[BiBottomBoy]

I'll vote for whichever candidate pledges to nominate Judge Judy.

Honestly, I'm not sure that you should be so concerned about McCain in that regard. Whoever is President, be it McCain or Obama, is going to have to deal with a Democratic plurality in Congress. The next Supreme Court nominee will likely be a compromise candidate no matter who nominates him or her. I envision both McCain and Obama nominating philosophical moderate like Sandra Day O'Connor or Anthony Kennedy as opposed to a more idealistic justice like Clarence Thomas or a Ruth Bader Ginsburg.

[TampaYankee]

PLEASE PLEASE remember the bigger picture. We must elect a democrat if only for the federal court justice and supreme court justice seats that will become vacant. We CANNOT afford any more right wing conservative judges. Regardless of how we feel, as a gay community we can't afford any other choice.

EXPAT, you are right on. Some cannot see the big pictiure or don't really care to. IMO there is a cult of personality dedicated to Hillary or Bust. They are perfectly willing to cede the courts, foreign policy blunders, taxes, health care, ..., you name it, to the higher cause of resurrecting Hillary in '12. There really is nothing else to explain it.

Any Democrat progressive or liberal who really believes that what, under four more years of Bush/McCain policies, will happen to the Supreme Court or taxes or foreign adventurism or what won't happen to health care, alterntive energy programs, the middle class economy, etc... that all of that doesn't outweigh waiting four more years for Hillary proves my point. I think that will be a great mistake on their part. It also has the added benefit of punishing all those too stupid to see the rigtheouness of Hillary from the beginning and their failure to annoint her candidacy accordingly.

I am an Independent and by nature a Jeffersonian democrat. Generally, I favor the rights of individuals over groups. Generally, I also believe that divided government does the least damange. The Bush Years highlight that in spades.

I have come to support both a Democratic Congress and President this year primarily because I believe the damage done to the country under Bush single-party-government is severe enough and the threat to our individual freedoms threatening enough, and the potential for tipping the Supreme Court for a generation heinous enough to warrant immediate corrective or blocking measures.

Corrective measures that won't be made by McCain/GOP administration. To fail to change the direction of the last eight years is to support continued travel down the wrong road and worse to cement so many of the policies and actions that I find abhorrent. The Supreme Court will be cooked for a generation with at least two and maybe more vacancies to be filled. More jobs exported, more oil imported, Big Oil fatter and fatter, alternative engergy still a cottage industry, deficits growing, beach front enclaves in Iran, the rich richer, the middle class poorer...

What a lovely picture... the country will be so desperate in four years that they will have to overcome their abhorrence of Hillary won't they? Hmmmm.... is there a baby and bath water argument underlying that argument?

Unfortunately, for me anyway, in four years the Dem Congress will have been feeding at the trough long enough that their taste for special interest money and support will have overtaken any real sense of outrage about the deeply flawed Republican policies of the past that they failed to overturn in the face of a Republican Adminstration. Of course they will attempt to use partisan poliltical advantage to cement their place at the trough -- they will be busy with their own catering to special interests and big business. The time for divided government most likely will have returned, for me anyway. Reclaiming the Supreme Court and lost freedoms will have to wait on a younger generation. The lives and monies spent in foolish foreign adventures will be gone. Alternative energy solutions will be four years further away -- maybe eight? The debt of our children will be higher. Why should I bother about that? I could go on... I have gone on. Enough.

[firecat691614502759]

I only wish I wrote the response from Tampa.

Amazing the number of smart people who have no idea the damage that idiot Bush and Cheney have done to this country. If Mickey Mouse was running against McCain, I would vote for Mickey.

The man is a right wing conservative who agrees with 95% of everything done in the last 8 years by Bush. Just because he supported the surge , they would like us to forget that he was Gung Ho behind us going to Iraq. He was with all the Neo Cons about being welcomed with roses and them paying for the war with their Oil etc etc etc.

His judgement was completely wrong and if Saddam was still in power we would have the counter balance to Iran that we need. And please don't anybody give me the baloney about Saddam being a terrible person and killing his own people. We don't care about that ,if we did we would stop the killing in Africa where more people get killed in a month then Saddam killed in years.

And how can anyone say it makes no difference on about the Supreme Court. The Democrats will have complete control of the Senate after tis election and a Democratic President will get who he wants on the Supreme Court.

I watch the business channel frequently and am amazed at how they also don't want to look at History either. They would prefer a Republican. How hard is it for these idiots to check the stock market figures. Under idiot Bush for the last 8 years the stock market is up a total of 5%.

Savings accounts pay more then that. Under Clinton the market was up 300% Under Old man Bush for 4 years the market was up 50%. Takes areal brain surgeon to figure who we are better off with????

[BiBottomBoy]

I'm not a fan of either Obama or McCain - but I have noticed that McCain doesn't talk about Jesus as much as Obama does. And I've noticed he's not an arrogant prick who is going to do his acceptance speech in a football stadium.

Anyway, it's a moot point. While I'd love any democrat to win, it's clear that Obama can't seal the deal. He lost seven of the last eight primaries and has been tanking in the polls ever since.

He is a young first term senator who is out of his league and his advisers are steering him on a losing path.

It sucks, but at some point in the game you have to admit it when your team fucked up and look forward to the next game.

I only wish I wrote the response from Tampa.

Amazing the number of smart people who have no idea the damage that idiot Bush and Cheney have done to this country. If Mickey Mouse was running against McCain, I would vote for Mickey.

The man is a right wing conservative who agrees with 95% of everything done in the last 8 years by Bush. Just because he supported the surge , they would like us to forget that he was Gung Ho behind us going to Iraq. He was with all the Neo Cons about being welcomed with roses and them paying for the war with their Oil etc etc etc.

His judgement was completely wrong and if Saddam was still in power we would have the counter balance to Iran that we need. And please don't anybody give me the baloney about Saddam being a terrible person and killing his own people. We don't care about that ,if we did we would stop the killing in Africa where more people get killed in a month then Saddam killed in years.

And how can anyone say it makes no difference on about the Supreme Court. The Democrats will have complete control of the Senate after tis election and a Democratic President will get who he wants on the Supreme Court.

I watch the business channel frequently and am amazed at how they also don't want to look at History either. They would prefer a Republican. How hard is it for these idiots to check the stock market figures. Under idiot Bush for the last 8 years the stock market is up a total of 5%.

Savings accounts pay more then that. Under Clinton the market was up 300% Under Old man Bush for 4 years the market was up 50%. Takes areal brain surgeon to figure who we are better off with????

[TampaYankee]

Honestly, I'm not sure that you should be so concerned about McCain in that regard. Whoever is President, be it McCain or Obama, is going to have to deal with a Democratic plurality in Congress. The next Supreme Court nominee will likely be a compromise candidate no matter who nominates him or her. I envision both McCain and Obama nominating philosophical moderate like Sandra Day O'Connor or Anthony Kennedy as opposed to a more idealistic justice like Clarence Thomas or a Ruth Bader Ginsburg.

When is compromise not compromise?

I don't know about you but I'd rather be on the offensive rather than the defensive. The President proposes. The Senate can only approve his nominees and no other.

The people tend to view obstructionism in a dim light. While the Dem base will hang in with the Congress obstructing, most of the people won't and whoever prevails has to have the people in the middle. There will be compromise alright but on the President's terms. The first guy may go down but the second will go through and I guarantee he will not be to the Dems liking. Nevertheless, the President will be seen to have gone half way. If the Dems don't 'show compromise' the political fall out accrues to the Dem Congress.

Yes, I'd rather be on offense over defense on the political football field. (That is the present problem for the Obama campaign. But that can change from week to week -- and it must.)

[BiBottomBoy]

The thing is that Obama hasn't done anything yet that would make one thing that he is capable of going on the offensive.

When is compromise not compromise?

I don't know about you but I'd rather be on the offensive rather than the defensive. The President proposes. The Senate can only approve his nominees and no other.

The people tend to view obstructionism in a dim light. While the Dem base will hang in with the Congress obstructing, most of the people won't and whoever prevails has to have the people in the middle. There will be compromise alright but on the President's terms. The first guy may go down but the second will go through and I guarantee he will not be to the Dems liking. Nevertheless, the President will be seen to have gone half way. If the Dems don't 'show compromise' the political fall out accrues to the Dem Congress.

Yes, I'd rather be on offense over defense on the political football field. (That is the present problem for the Obama campaign. But that can change from week to week -- and it must.)

[JKane]

PLEASE PLEASE remember the bigger picture. We must elect a democrat if only for the federal court justice and supreme court justice seats that will become vacant. We CANNOT afford any more right wing conservative judges. Regardless of how we feel, as a gay community we can't afford any other choice.

Even further than that, lost among all this nattering naysaying (seriously, get OVER Hillary) Biden is a constitutional law professor and there are a lot of things that need to be cleaned up with the wreckage Bush has left the checks and balances (not to mention Justice Department) in.

So many times these last couple months I've wished somebody big on Obama's side would stand up and call out McCain and his cronies on their shit, so I'm ecstatic we have somebody so well-suited to the task, and it being the guy that had the wit to end Juliani's career by describing his answers to everything as "a noun, a verb and 9/11" is a great bonus. Especially as McCain's people keep trotting out his time as a POW--while nobody in the press ever makes mention of McCain's flip-flop to supporting torture.

[manticore]

"I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy."

Everyone quotes that unfairly; there should be a comma after African-American.

Biden's remark was regrettable, but it wasn't as bad as it looks without the comma.

For a full explanation, with audio of the remark in question, see here.

[Guest StuCotts]

I think all the din around the choice of a vice presidential candidate is created by the media to give themselves one more molehill to make into a mountain.

In the last analysis, nobody in that position has ever been instrumental in winning or losing an election. Eagleton doesn't count because that ship was already sinking. Even Bush I, who picked the dimmest bulb he could find, won his first election. And when he lost his second one, it had nothing to do with the fact that Quayle came out of his four year term as clueless as he went into it.

[Guest JamesWilson]

You'd prefer an incompetent democrat who will be bullied into middle of the road conservative judges over a republican who will be bullied into middle of the road conservative judges?

Sorry, I'd rather Hillary who would have the pull and the balls to push through real judges.

So you would rather vote for McCain (or not vote for Obama, which amounts to the same thing) because Hillary didn't win?!?

BBB, if the US voters elect a Republican after 8 years of GWB, I think that the rest of the world will vote 95% in favour of kicking you all off the planet!!!

[BiBottomBoy]

Convince me that Obama is a better choice.

So far they both look like douchebags to me. McCain seems like the more honest douchebag, but douchebags they both seem.

I'd love to hear a defense of Omaba that doesn't involve "change", "not a republican" or "charismatic."

So you would rather vote for McCain (or not vote for Obama, which amounts to the same thing) because Hillary didn't win?!?

BBB, if the US voters elect a Republican after 8 years of GWB, I think that the rest of the world will vote 95% in favour of kicking you all off the planet!!!