TotallyOz Posted June 4, 2008 Posted June 4, 2008 Looks like Obama will get the nomination and it appears he has the delegates needed. As a die hard Clinton fan, I am now at a crossroad. I am not angry in the least. I also don't know that I can cast my vote for Obama. I have not voted Republican my entire adult life. I am not sure I can vote for McCain. Stay at home? I have never done that. Perhaps this will be my first time to cast a non vote. Yes, I am a bad democrat and a bad liberal. Quote
Members JKane Posted June 4, 2008 Members Posted June 4, 2008 Maybe now that Hillary is out the race you can listen to Barack without that frame around him and see what the rest of us find so inspiring. I loved the couple minutes I heard of his speech tonight, about being Americans first and raising the level of political discourse. Give him an honest chance, I think he'll grow on you. Quote
AdamSmith Posted June 4, 2008 Posted June 4, 2008 A rabid Hillary supporter, I find that with all of tonight's developments (and speeches), Barack is beginning to grow on me. And I am of 2 minds about it. I don't like it, but despite myself, I am starting to try on and enjoy the emotional stance of, well, if he is the one to grind McCain into the dust, good enough. Etc. I find this both troubling, and a little relieving. Odd... Quote
Members TampaYankee Posted June 4, 2008 Members Posted June 4, 2008 I also don't know that I can cast my vote for Obama. I have not voted Republican my entire adult life. I am not sure I can vote for McCain. Stay at home? I have never done that. Perhaps this will be my first time to cast a non vote. I faced a similar dilemma in 2000. Neither of my choices, McCain & Bradley, made it to the general election. I sat out that election -- the only time in my life. I came to regret that very much as we were saddled with the worst and most damaging president in the history of our country IMO -- not that my vote would have changed anything. (Side note: McCain 2008 bears no resemblance to McCain 2000) For all who consider sitting out this next election ask yourself this question: Am I willing to sacrifice my constitutional Right to Privacy? Not only is this the lynch pin to Roe v Wade, it has been the lynch pin for striking down the anti-sodomy laws, laws that criminalized homosexual behavior, over the last two decades. Make no mistake, the so-called strict constructionists have been striving for decades to overturn this 'derived right' since the original Roe v Wade, stare decisis be damned. They are on the cusp of getting a 6-3 or 7-2 majority that would prevail for the next 20 - 30 years. Don't rely on a Democrat Senate to hold the barbarians at the gates either. The president proposes, the Senate disposes. Thus, though the Senate can stop an appointment, ultimately it must live with a Presidential choice. Witness the Roberts/Alito cases. At last, having the end-game in sight after decades, do not expect the strict constructionists to blink. At best, a stand-off would leave the Supreme Court a crippled undermanned court that would leave most decisions handed down to be interim only -- waiting to be resettled when a full court is seated. This is not an acceptable long-term circumstance as many other important cases will need to be definitively resolved by the court. There are many other important issues for sure. For many, some of those issues may rise above the Right to Privacy: paying a few dollars more or a few dollars less in taxes, presenting a more diplomatic or more militaristic foreign policy to the world in defense of oil supplies over alterantive fuels. Keeping the best medical care that money can buy even if only those with money or those who have none can access it, provided it is not a preexisting condition. Lots of issues. Maybe some of those are more important for others although I do not see any so consequential over the long term as the right to keep the government from intruding in my private life, IMO. Rights have always been less important for the majority than for the minority. Quote
Guest Conway Posted June 4, 2008 Posted June 4, 2008 I guess that I am a bad Republican in that I am probably much more uninspired by John McCain than even the most fervent Hillary supporter is by Obama. Like many of you, I find Obama charismatic and full of hope. Yet, I'm enough of a realist that I know that the cost of Obama's vision of hope, that is the cost of expanded healthcare and other social programs, will be thrust upon the middle class to pay for at a time when, even our burgeoning middle class, cannot take much more financial stress without breaking. If I was more idealistic and less pragmatic, I could certainly be more attracted to Obama as a candidate. My vote, will likely go in protest of a better choice (in my opinion), to Ron Paul in the general election. Quote
TotallyOz Posted June 4, 2008 Author Posted June 4, 2008 Maybe now that Hillary is out the race you can listen to Barack without that frame around him and see what the rest of us find so inspiring. I loved the couple minutes I heard of his speech tonight, about being Americans first and raising the level of political discourse. Give him an honest chance, I think he'll grow on you. I have listened to his every speech on national television. I see why many like him. He gives a great speech with hope but I have yet to see anything of substance come from him. Hopefully, he is smarter than George Bush in that he will surround himself with those that are looking out for the good in this country rather than the party, themselves, special interests. Unfortunately, I don't think he will grow on me. Quote
TotallyOz Posted June 4, 2008 Author Posted June 4, 2008 My vote, will likely go in protest of a better choice (in my opinion), to Ron Paul in the general election. That I can understand for sure. When I told my very liberal family (immediate family as my other relatives are all Republicans) I may just not vote at all they all said, "That is so fucking stupid" or "you want another 4 years of W" and my favorite "for someone so intelligent, you're being ignorant." Well, I guess I know how they really feel. Where is Ross Perot when I need him? Quote
Guest StuCotts Posted June 4, 2008 Posted June 4, 2008 Both Obama and Clinton are candidates of superior caliber. The Reps have nobody to offer who can compete with either one. If between now and November the Dems are prepared to get over their personal infatuations and act seriously in the interests of party unity, we'll have a chance. If they are not, the world will yet again be treated to the spectacle of a Dem self-immolation. Quote
Guest scamper Posted June 10, 2008 Posted June 10, 2008 If it's a choice between voting for McCain and not voting for Obama, don't vote. Quote
Members redryder Posted June 10, 2008 Members Posted June 10, 2008 If it's a choice between voting for McCain and not voting for Obama, don't vote. What other nominated presidental candidate have you ever heard mention gays in his speeches, as Obama often does when he talks of bridging the gap between "blacks and whites, gays and straights" etc.? The only reason I can think of that a gay man would not support Obama is that he is a self loathing closet case, or from the south or Apppalachia.........OR he's rich as hell, and doesn't want to pay the piper for his ill gotten gains during the favorable-to -the -wealthy- only years of Republican power. Quote
TotallyOz Posted June 11, 2008 Author Posted June 11, 2008 The only reason I can think of that a gay man would not support Obama is that he is a self loathing closet case, or from the south or Apppalachia......... Well, I am from the South and I am not racist against blacks. I don't date white guy, but I have lots of them as friends. Honestly, I don't know much about Obama and that is what is disappointing to me. He is an unknown for me and I honestly think his nomination will not succeed and that we will be in for another 4 years of Republican rule. I am open to listening to him. I even ordered his book and will read it. I will read it with an open mind. But, I am not willing to change my mind that he should not have been the nominee. That was a mistake and one that will hurt us for years to come. Quote
Guest SouthernMan Posted June 12, 2008 Posted June 12, 2008 "The only reason I can think of that a gay man would not support Obama is that he is a self loathing closet case, or from the south or Apppalachia.........OR he's rich as hell, and doesn't want to pay the piper for his ill gotten gains during the favorable-to -the -wealthy- only years of Republican power." Get real! Every white person who doesn't support Obama is a racist and every gay person who doesn't support Obama is a self-loathing closet case? Same old tired assed crap his mesmerized sheeple always spout. Sorry, but I want someone who will tell me just WTF! he plans to change. I'm all for change but BO won't say what those changes will be. He comes across as an empty suit to me, someone with no experience with a catchy little phrase that reels in the sheeple (kind of of like GWB in 2000/2004). IMO, neither party had a candidate that I wanted to vote for, so maybe it's time for an alternative. Personally, I'm casting a write in ballot for Al Gore. If that means 4 years of McCain, then so be it as it couldn't possibly be any worse than 4 years of Obama. However I would vote for Hilary Clinton if it came down to her and McCain. I'm a registered Democrat who has voted for a Republican only once on any level (local, state, federal) and that was Richard Nixon in 1972 (imo, one of the best presidents ever). I'm openly gay and proud of that, so that eliminates your label of me as a self-loathing closet case. But then again, I am a native, but non-Appalachian Virginian who finds your way predictable stereotyping extremely offensive. Quote
Guest SouthernMan Posted June 12, 2008 Posted June 12, 2008 What other nominated presidental candidate have you ever heard mention gays in his speeches, as Obama often does when he talks of bridging the gap between "blacks and whites, gays and straights" etc.?The only reason I can think of that a gay man would not support Obama is that he is a self loathing closet case, or from the south or Apppalachia.........OR he's rich as hell, and doesn't want to pay the piper for his ill gotten gains during the favorable-to -the -wealthy- only years of Republican power. Quote
