Is Hillary Out?

[TotallyOz]

I have voiced my support for her in the past but I am now feeling that she has too much to overcome to get the nomination. I am just not sure that she can do it even if she wins Pennsylvania really big. I wonder if the end is in sight and if so, how far she will take this?

[Guest BewareofNick]

I have voiced my support for her in the past but I am now feeling that she has too much to overcome to get the nomination. I am just not sure that she can do it even if she wins Pennsylvania really big. I wonder if the end is in sight and if so, how far she will take this?

Oz, the numbers just are not in her favor. Obama will be the nominee. My question though is why is Hillary taking this all the way to the convention? The Clintons don't do anything without a reason. Is it to force Barack to nominate her as his VP? In any case, it doesn't matter to me which is the nominee. Whomever it is will get my vote.

[Guest SouthernMan]

Oz, the numbers just are not in her favor. Obama will be the nominee. My question though is why is Hillary taking this all the way to the convention? The Clintons don't do anything without a reason. Is it to force Barack to nominate her as his VP? In any case, it doesn't matter to me which is the nominee. Whomever it is will get my vote.

I say again, no one, from either party is anyone, that I want to wholeheartedly cast my vote for president. But, of the the three, I'd have to cast my vote for Hilary. The last one that I would vote for would be Barak Obama!!!!

Sheesh! What a lousy choice of candidates. Think I'll just put in a write-in vote for Al Gore.

[Guest epigonos]

I have to agree that it is all over but the shouting. The liberal wing of the Democratic party is terrified of the consequences of NOT nominating Obama. I am convinced that they believe that if they don't nominate him black voters will stay home in droves. I am also convinced that they would rather loose the November election than be accused of racism by black Democratic voters. Frankly I don't think the man has a prayer that is unless John McCain manages to fuck up his campaign and keep in mind he has done it before and is fully capable of doing it again. If he keeps his cool, selects a positive running mate I sincerely believe he will win by a landslide. If that is indeed the case Obama with have only himself (the San Francisco remarks) and the Reverend Wright to thank for the fiasco.

Now why is Hilary holding out? Good question. There is no way on this earth that she is going to accept the second position on a ticket with Obama. She would be a fool to do so. Frankly she had more power as First Lady than she would ever have as his Vice President. If, however, he looses badly she will be in a great position to assume major power in the U.S. Senate. Ted Kennedy and the other liberal Democratic Senators will be discredited for jumping on the Obama bandwagon and guess who will be there to say I told you so. A Republican President McCain would find it very easy to work with a Democratic Senate led by Hilary Clinton, after all they are professional friends and actually enjoy each others company.

The one caveat that I must stress is that I have been WRONG on all of my predictions regarding the primaries thus far. In other words my opinions aren't worth a hell of a lot

[TampaYankee]

Just my opinion but....

The race has been over since VA/MD primaries and the caucuses of that period -- 10 straight state wins. I think that it was clear at that time to objective vote counters. I think it is clear in retrospect to everyone. Obama's margin was just too great for her to overcome. It is folly to confuse remote possibility in theory with practical reality. There was no way she was going to get 65% margins consistently from there on out. It was unrealistic to think the she could get the rules changed in the middle of the contest to favor her.

Objectively (IMO) her campaign was an utter failure -- based as it was on a wrap-up on Super Tuesday with no game plan after that. She spent weeks flat-footed watching the states fall one by one to Obama without effective response. She pulled out last minute Hail Mary's in TX and Ohio where the establishments were overwhelmingly behind her. Even then the TX victory was a defeat in the delegate count and not by an eeking margin either. (It is interesting the note that in virtually every state she won and many she didn't win, she had the establishment behind her. Makes one wonder how a first term Senator got so far. Certainly not because of the entrenched machines. How well could he do if the had those machines behind him? Interesting to ponder.)

Hillary didn't give up when the handwriting was on the wall and I admire her perspicacity, though not her methods. She certainly hasn't failed forlack of tryinig. She hoped beyond hope that she could somehow alter the landscape to give her solid footing to actually compete for the Supers. I think she has accepted that she will not succeed in standing the primary on its head by getting the Supers to give it to her. Yet she will persist until the remaining undecided Supers number too few to make the math. She even may go to the convention for her own future purposes.

Why does she persist? Well, I don't think she accepts loosing every easily -- that perspicacity thing again. Also, she did feel not only that she was inevitable but that it was her turn -- the party owed it to her. She also wants to preserve her reputation as an unyielding fighter. There is a future in her future too, even after this fiasco.

Lastly, it's that future. I don't doubt for a minute that she (and Bill) would be exHillarated if Obama, having won the primary, loses the General. The Clintons have long demonstrated that they will try to distroy anyone that stands in the way of their objectives. They are making threats to the Supers now. If Obama were to prevail it would diminish greatly any future chance of The Presidency for her. Not only would she be 68 but Democrats don't have much of a record of holding the White House for three terms consecutively. Thus if it is not now then four years from now is her only likely opportunity. I'm confident that she thinks 8 years with her at the helm after 4 years of McCain would be vastly preferable to the Country and the Party than 8 years of Obama or anyone else for that matter. Such is the Clinton ego. She just doesnt want to telegraph that for obvious reasons.

Who says Obama can't win? Nobody knows at this point. Too many imponderables between now and November. That is why they hold elections. General election polls mean NOTHING now. They never do this far out. Those of us who have been around for a while recall seeing one candidate or the other having 15 point leads in polls only to see it evaporate by election day and lose a not so close election.

I think there is a potential that Obama wins by a landslide. He could also lose with a reasonable showing. One thing is sure. It won't be clear until not only the party candidates engage but also the broad electorate. That comes only after Labor Day. Until then (after the Prmary close-out) only polictical activists, junkies and cable news pundits give a rats ass about the back and forth. The polls ALWAYS close the last few weeks before election day. So it will be again.

The bright side: either one will be a phenomenal impovement over the present occupant of the office. That doesn't necessarily say much even if it speaks volumes.

[redryder]

I have voiced my support for her in the past but I am now feeling that she has too much to overcome to get the nomination. I am just not sure that she can do it even if she wins Pennsylvania really big. I wonder if the end is in sight and if so, how far she will take this?

As a life-long liberal,I didn't think it was possible, but I may be close to joining the ranks of the Hillary- haters out there. Neutral at the beginning of the race in Jan., I was equally impressed by both candidates, but have found Ms. Clinton become more and more grating, abrasive, smug, and nakedly ambitious. It is now clear that she would rather trash the Democratic party than give up her chance at the presidency.

Unfortunately, Pennsylvania appears unlikely to provide any clarity. I'm afraid latent racism (see above) will keep Obama 8-10 points behind Clinton, and this whole sorry mess will just keep on until the party self-destructs in Denver, giving McCain a real chance to keep on churning out the same old Bush policies for another 4-8 years by which time there wont be much of a country around for the Dems to save in the future.

[stripfan]

TY- you echoed my sentiments perfectly.

I read today that the new election finance reports for March showed that Hillary had 9 million in the bank and 10 million in debt whereas Obama had 40 mil or so. That impresses me that Obama managed to raise so much money while fighting Clinton's entrenched establishment. Also it made me doubt whether or not Hillary can actually run the country since she bungled her campaign so badly with poor fiscal planning, poor personnel moves and absolutely no plan for the caucus states.

[TotallyOz]

I think I read that Obama has raised one quarter of a billion dollars. What does this mean for others who want to be President? No one that can't raise that kind of money can't be President. I see this as a major problem as those that are best qualified (Dennis Kucinich) can't raise that kind of money. Is there not a more fair method to do this?

[JKane]

Is there not a more fair method to do this?

I honestly can't think of a more fair system than to raise an average of $100-$200 from over one million inspired donors! Maybe a public system that actually kept up with the costs of running a modern campaign would be best for the actual presidential; but for a primary it seems to me it should by definition go to the person who can get the most people excited enough to chip in their own money.

What Obama's done is truly amazing, and it makes him the easy choice for change when compared to the usual Hillary and McCain system of raising the limit from a much smaller number of rich people, their families and their co-workers.

All I expect of Obama for my $150 donation is for him to be the President he says he will be. What do 'Hillraisers' who've raised over a hundred thousand dollars and put money into the Clinton I Presidential library expect? More pardons or most favored nation status (Clinton I) or Enron-style oversight of their industries (Bush II)?

[Guest tweety]

She is out as a racist, but she is still a closeted dyke!

[Guest eastburbguy]

I have voiced my support for her in the past but I am now feeling that she has too much to overcome to get the nomination. I am just not sure that she can do it even if she wins Pennsylvania really big. I wonder if the end is in sight and if so, how far she will take this?

< Is Hillary Out?

Yes.

< She is out as a racist, but she is still a closeted dyke!

That's just disgusting.

[TampaYankee]

She is out as a racist, but she is still a closeted dyke!

I'm not the biggest fan of the Clintons as some may have guessed, but I do not believe they are racists, either of them. However, I do believe that they will do/say anything to win and that includes using innuedo, racial or otherwise, if they think it will benefit them. THey are exceedingly good at that and have a long history of getting away with it most of the time IMO. With them it is all about winning. Something to be admired on one level and despised on another. Just an opinion...

[TotallyOz]

Well, Pennsylvania gave her yet another glimmer of hope.

[JKane]

Well, Pennsylvania gave her yet another glimmer of hope.

Let's remember she went from a 20% lead to a 10% lead. All Penn. did was not eliminate her. Exactly as expected.

[TampaYankee]

Well, Pennsylvania gave her yet another glimmer of hope.

I agree. But the result is not a game changer only a game extender. She knows she cannot win as thing now stand. Her hope is that Obama will self-destruct or step on a fatal land mine. She wants to keep the process going to keep that possibility open.

The real significance of her win is not that it changes the inevitable math but that it adds a terribly needed jolt to her fund raising effort. Out of money and with major contributors tapped-out, she desperately needed an infusion of cash to stay the course, at least for the next two weeks.

The win stirred her grass roots base to ante up. Without that Hill would have been relegated to campaigning from NYC, spending the next two weeks living on AM and late night TV shows, the View and Ellen, and cable news interviews -- maybe even FOX. Free exposure is the best friend of a cash strapped poltical candidate.

Ironic that Hillary has become the candidate of Hope.

[Guest epigonos]

Gentlemen let’s keep something in mind. The world of presidential politics has “absolutely nothing†whatsoever to do with altruism, public welfare, human rights or concern for the environment. It is driven solely by a quest for PERSONAL POWER. It is irrelevant to which party Hilary Clinton, Barak Obama, or John McCain belong. What they all have in common is that they are power-mongers. They will say whatever necessary and do whatever necessary to achieve personal power.

If Hilary Clinton is aware, and I certainly believe she is, that she cannot obtain the Democratic nomination she is also aware that she will, in the end, have far more PERSONAL POWER with John McCain as President than she will with Barak Obama. When Obama is nominated I expect that she will concede graciously by making a pretty speak about everybody uniting behind Obama as the Democratic Party’s candidate for President. After the convention I expect her to return home, to New York, and sit there for the duration of the campaign. I can’t see her lifting a finder to encourage her people the get out and vote for Obama.

If John McCain in elected, as I believe he will be, Hilary Clinton will be the Democratic Senator that he is most likely to consult on matter of mutual interest. As senators they have come to like and respect each other. He is known to despise Barak Obama and after this primary season Hilary cannot be too fond of him either. McCain would definitely prefer to see Clinton president rather than Obama, and I am virtually certain that Clinton would prefer to see McCain president rather than Obama.

In the end it is all about power – how to get it and how to keep it. You might think I am cynical but I NOT I’m a political realist. This primary season has certainly turned out to be one of the most interesting in decades.

[boiworship]

You're right, epigonos. The appalling truth is that none of the candidates has any plan for dealing with the imminent collapse of the economy as well as the far-flung imperial presence of the US. Despite promises to disengage from Irag on the part of the Democrats, they've both left open "options" for dealing with Iran, a war whose outcome we can't imagine but one which has so many potential disasters that it could lead to a regional war. The only candidate who understands these issues is Ron Paul, but in our official duopoly, he has been effectively ignored and marginalized as a kook. Either Hillary or Obama is preferable to McCain, who is downright dangerous, but neither will be able to arrest the inevitable domestic and foreign crises already queued up. I'm afraid that whoever is elected President will face challenges greater than those faced by presidents over the post-WW2 period. None has what it takes to effectively manage them. The system is broken and it's time for a major rehaul.

[AdamSmith]

The appalling truth is that none of the candidates has any plan for dealing with the imminent collapse of the economy as well as the far-flung imperial presence of the US.

Agree completely. Whomever we elect, these are the real worries. Two great consequences of the G.W. Bush regime, I think, will turn out to have been to accelerate the end of the American century -- arguably the lesser evil, as it was driven by forces more or less beyond the control of anyone in this country -- and, in my view the greater evil, to have made explicit to the world the finite extent and the outer limits of our powers and influence. One reason for the excellent advice to walk softly in the world was so that they could not -- to our benefit -- be exactly sure just how big our stick was.