Eliot Spitzer, ex-Governor

[Guest StuCotts]

Our erstwhile governor, up to a few days ago touted as the whitest of white knights, angel of death for the corrupt, potentially the first Jewish President of the United States, took all that promise, shit on it and stomped it into the ground, and did it all for lust. There has to be a lesson in there somewhere for all of us, even those who, as I do, live in welcome obscurity. We may all have something in our lives to lose for being too devoted to the escort scene. End of sermon.

It's an ill wind that blows no good. The bimbo in question is acquiring national fame. I'm transfixed by her professional name: Ashley Alexandra Dupré. She must be a fan of Tennessee Williams to have come up with that.

[AdamSmith]

There has to be a lesson in there somewhere for all of us, even those who, as I do, live in welcome obscurity. We may all have something in our lives to lose for being too devoted to the escort scene. End of sermon.

Ahh, Stu, I want so strongly to think the real lesson is upside down from that. I have Lucky to thank for pointing me to where Faulkner said it all:

...Because there is something in the touch of flesh with flesh which abrogates, cuts sharp and straight across the devious intricate channels of decorous ordering, which enemies as well as lovers know because it makes them both ­touch and touch of that which is the citadel of the central I-Am’s private own: not spirit, soul; the liquorish and ungirdled mind is anyone’s to take in any darkened hallway of this earthly tenement...

[marcanthony]

It's not Faulkner, but it's set to haunting music....

From the beautiful musical AIDA (only the names have been changed to protect the innocent, LOL):

ELABORATE LIVES (courtesy Elton John/Tim Rice)

WE ALL LIVE SUCH ELABORATE LIVES, WILD AMBITIONS IN OUR SIGHTS

HOW AN AFFAIR OF THE HEART SURVIVES, DAYS APART AND HURRIED NIGHTS

SEEMS QUITE UNBELIEVABLE TO ME, I DON'T WANT TO LIVE LIKE THAT

SEEMS QUITE UNBELIEVABLE TO ME, I DON'T WANT TO LOVE LIKE THAT

I JUST WANT OUR TIME TO BE... SLOWER, GENTLER, WISER, FREE

WE ALL LIVE IN EXTRAVAGANT TIMES, PLAYING GAMES WE CAN'T ALL WIN

UNINTENDED EMOTIONAL CRIMES, TAKE SOME OUT...TAKE OTHERS IN

I'M SO TIRED OF ALL WE'RE GOING THROUGH, I DON'T WANT TO LIVE LIKE THAT

I'M SO TIRED OF ALL WE'RE GOING THROUGH, I DON'T WANT TO LOVE LIKE THAT

I JUST WANT TO BE WITH YOU.... NOW AND FOREVER, PEACEFUL, TRUE

THIS MAY NOT BE THE MOMENT TO TELL YOU FACE TO FACE

BUT I COULD WAIT FOREVER, FOR THE PERFECT TIME AND PLACE

WE ALL LIVE SUCH ELABORATE LIVES, WE DON'T KNOW WHOSE WORDS ARE TRUE

STRANGERS, LOVERS, HUSBANDS, WIVES.... HARD TO KNOW WHO'S LOVING WHO

TOO MANY CHOICES TEAR US APART, I DON'T WANT TO LIVE LIKE THAT

TOO MANY CHOICES TEAR US APART, I DON'T WANT TO LOVE LIKE THAT

I JUST WANT TO TOUCH YOUR HEART

MAY THIS CONFESSION BE THE START.

[Guest StuCotts]

The tone of your two posts confirms me in thinking that you both share a sanguine view of escorting that isn't mine. I'm at your service for anything you want to know about clouds. If I have a question on silver linings I'll know to take it to you.

[caeron]

It is the hypocrisy,not the prostitutes, that bothered me. If you're going to build your reputation on being a tireless foe of the illegal and immoral, then you need to not do things that you rail against.

Beyond that, I view it as an issue between his wife and him.

[AdamSmith]

The tone of your two posts confirms me in thinking that you both share a sanguine view of escorting that isn't mine.

Well, I'm sanguine about the irrepressibility of lust, and of commerce. (Actually rather buoyed by that!) And of their intersection. Which does, being the oldest profession, command a certain profound regard.

Please forgive, but -- I'd be fascinated to know more. Is the cloud the risk of discovery, or something else?

[Guest StuCotts]

It is the hypocrisy,not the prostitutes, that bothered me. If you're going to build your reputation on being a tireless foe of the illegal and immoral, then you need to not do things that you rail against.

Beyond that, I view it as an issue between his wife and him.

I think the Feds are taking a dimmer view than you. There is a matter of possible felony charges. Spitzer took a person over state lines for immoral purposes. That's prosecutable under the Mann Law, which is seldom acted on. But to pay for his pastime he also moved money around in a potentially illegal manner. That's what brought him to the authorities' attention in the first place, and could put him in stir. This latter matter is governed by a law that he himself was instrumental in putting on the books. Now he may be regretting his earlier zeal. Anyway, the story isn't over.

[Guest StuCotts]

Well, I'm sanguine about the irrepressibility of lust, and of commerce. (Actually rather buoyed by that!) And of their intersection. Which does, being the oldest profession, command a certain profound regard.

Please forgive, but -- I'd be fascinated to know more. Is the cloud the risk of discovery, or something else?

You're forgiven, but that's a question that requires cool consideration and a careful answer in private. If anything makes me obsolescent, it's my disinclination to participate in the present mentality that compels people to tell all about themselves at the top of their lungs in the most public possible venues without wondering whether any of it is worth telling or being listened to.

[Guest StuCotts]

Back to Spitzer.

It's a salutary thing to be given the chance to see ourselves as others see us (thanks, Robert Burns). The Economist takes the opportunity afforded by the Spitzer mess to put us in our place.

http://www.economist.com/world/na/displays...ory_id=10852872

[Guest StuCotts]

For those interested in an exhaustive treatment of this sordid subject, and I'm not sure why anybody should be, New York Magazine has outdone itself.

http://nymag.com/news/features/45118/

The upshot seems to be that Spitzer was a world-class asshole on numberless levels. Some of those levels guaranteed that he wouldn't get a whisper of sympathy if he ever messed up, and so it's been.

[JKane]

Slate's also had some great stuff on prostitution and its legality in general. Probably most of it is linked here.

But the most interesting thing out of this whole discussion, having nothing to do with Spitzer, is this in-depth analysis of why porn is legal and prostitution isn't.

[lookin]

Back to Spitzer.

It's a salutary thing to be given the chance to see ourselves as others see us (thanks, Robert Burns). The Economist takes the opportunity afforded by the Spitzer mess to put us in our place.

http://www.economist.com/world/na/displays...ory_id=10852872

Nice article. It ends with this paragraph:

He certainly had no choice but to resign (as he did on March 12th) if, as it seems, he broke the law. But that still leaves the bigger question of whether the law is an ass. George Bernard Shaw once defined “Comstockery†as “the world's standing joke at the expense of the United Statesâ€; but it is hardly a joke for the people who are caught in its tentacles. There are enough real problems for America's law-enforcement officials to worry about.

Like many of your posts, this one sent me looking for information on a subject I didn't know about. This time it was “Comstockeryâ€. Once again, Wikipedia to the rescue:

Anthony Comstock (March 7, 1844 – September 21, 1915) was a former United States Postal Inspector and politician dedicated to ideas of Victorian morality.

He was born in New Canaan, Connecticut. As a young man, he enlisted and fought for the Union in the American Civil War from 1863 to 1865. He served without incident, but objected to the profanity used by his fellow soldiers. Afterward he became an active worker in the Young Men's Christian Association in New York City.

In 1873 Comstock created the New York Society for the Suppression of Vice, an institution dedicated to supervising the morality of the public. Later that year, Comstock successfully influenced the United States Congress to pass the Comstock Law, which made illegal the delivery or transportation of both "obscene, lewd, or lascivious" material as well as any methods of, or information pertaining to, birth control. George Bernard Shaw coined the term "comstockery", meaning "censorship because of perceived obscenity or immorality", after Comstock alerted the New York police to the content of Shaw's play Mrs. Warren's Profession. Shaw remarked that "Comstockery is the world's standing joke at the expense of the United States. Europe likes to hear of such things. It confirms the deep-seated conviction of the Old World that America is a provincial place, a second-rate country-town civilization after all." Comstock thought of Shaw as an "Irish smut dealer".

Comstock's ideas of what might be "obscene, lewd, or lascivious" were quite broad. During his time of greatest power, even some anatomy textbooks were prohibited from being sent to medical students by the United States Postal Service.

Comstock aroused intense loathing from early civil liberties groups and intense support from church based groups worried about public morals. He was a savvy political insider in New York City and was made a special agent of the United States Postal Service, with police powers up to and including the right to carry a weapon. With this power he zealously prosecuted those he suspected of either public distribution of pornography or commercial fraud, his twin obessions. His efforts to suppress public information on sex education materials and birth control are now often viewed as misguided and medically irresponsible. He was also involved in shutting down the Louisiana Lottery, the only legal lottery in the United States at the time, and notorious for corruption.

Comstock is also known for his persecution of Victoria Woodhull and Tennessee Claflin, and those associated with them. The men's journal The Days Doings had popularised lewd images of the sisters for three years and was instructed by its editor (while Comstock was present) to stop producing images of "lewd character". Comstock also took legal action against the paper for advertising contraceptives. When the sisters published an expose of an adulterous affair between Reverend Henry Ward Beecher and Elizabeth Tilton, he had the sisters imprisoned under laws forbidding the use of the postal service to distribute 'obscene material'—though they were later found 'not guilty'.

Less fortunate was Ida Craddock, who committed suicide on the eve of reporting to Federal prison for distributing via the U.S. Mail various sexually explicit marriage manuals she had authored. Her final work was a lengthy public suicide note specifically condemning Comstock.

Comstock claimed he drove fifteen persons to suicide in his "fight for the young". He was head vice-hunter of the New York Society for the Suppression of Vice. Comstock, the self-labeled "weeder in God's garden", arrested D. M. Bennett for publishing his "An Open Letter to Jesus Christ" and later entrapped the editor for mailing a free-love pamphlet. Bennett was prosecuted, subjected to a widely publicized trial, and imprisoned in the Albany Penitentiary.

He had numerous enemies, and in later years his health was affected by a severe blow to the head from an anonymous attacker. He lectured to college audiences and wrote newspaper articles to sustain his causes. Before his death, Comstock attracted the interest of a young law student, J. Edgar Hoover, interested in his causes and methods.

During his career, Comstock clashed with Emma Goldman and Margaret Sanger. In her autobiography, Goldman referred to Comstock as the leader of America's "moral eunuchs". Through his various campaigns, he destroyed 15 tons of books, 284,000 pounds of plates for printing 'objectionable' books, and nearly 4,000,000 pictures. Comstock boasted that he was responsible for 4,000 arrests and 15 suicides.

I continue to be amazed by people who invest so much time poking their noses into other peoples’ business, with sex often at the center, and suicide sometimes the result.

Why do you think they do it?

[Guest JamesWilson]

I continue to be amazed by people who invest so much time poking their noses into other peoples’ business, with sex often at the center, and suicide sometimes the result.

Why do you think they do it?

Not getting enough sex at home?

[Guest StuCotts]

Not getting enough sex at home?

Further to James's conjecture, I think Constockoids live in a constant rage because they are victims of grave sexual dysfunction due to minimal and/or useless dicks. Railing against "indecent" materials puts them in contact with lots of them, which means they can sink their faces into them, indulging their pathetic fantasies and coming up for air only to vent their shrill moral outrage ever more loudly, angrier than ever about their basic problem. I think of Ken Starr as an heir of Comstock's. I also think much of this can be applied to Limbaugh, but that's another thread.

[lookin]

Further to James's conjecture, I think Constockoids live in a constant rage because they are victims of grave sexual dysfunction due to minimal and/or useless dicks.

I think you and James are right, and thank you. But there are others who are also victims of grave sexual dysfunction due to minimal and/or useless dicks (blushing prettily, and trusting my secret is safe here), who do not dedicate themselves to "supervising the morality of the public". They hire escorts, or take up a hobby, and let the public get along under its own steam.

What I'm trying to figure out is why only certain people decide to hoist themselves up onto the bench, and pass judgement on others. What's their motivation? There must be some payout, or they wouldn't keep doing it.

I appreciate any ideas folks care to share. It's a question that's been nagging at me for a while, and the Comstock-Spitzer brouhaha moved it front and center again.

[Guest StuCotts]

I think you and James are right, and thank you. But there are others who are also victims of grave sexual dysfunction due to minimal and/or useless dicks (blushing prettily, and trusting my secret is safe here), who do not dedicate themselves to "supervising the morality of the public". They hire escorts, or take up a hobby, and let the public get along under its own steam.

What I'm trying to figure out is why only certain people decide to hoist themselves up onto the bench, and pass judgement on others. What's their motivation? There must be some payout, or they wouldn't keep doing it.

I appreciate any ideas folks care to share. It's a question that's been nagging at me for a while, and the Comstock-Spitzer brouhaha moved it front and center again.

Everything I said plus all the instincts of a tin-pot tyrant and control freak? I'm scarcely any good at plumbing my own motivations, let alone anybody else's. So I guess you'd better wait for a reply from elsewhere.

[Guest JamesWilson]

What I'm trying to figure out is why only certain people decide to hoist themselves up onto the bench, and pass judgement on others. What's their motivation? There must be some payout, or they wouldn't keep doing it.

Not being a trained psychologist/sociologist/whatever, I can only guess....

1) They feel bad about themselves so they look for ways to make themselves feel better by putting other people down. They can pick a whole range of issues to exploit... gender, race, religion, sexuality, morality, etc. etc. ad nauseum.

2) They are looking to gain power over groups of people, and use various hot-button issues to get other people to support them. I think that this is extremely common in the political and religious sectors of the economy (e.g. Spitzer, Rush, the Religious Wrong, etc.).

[Guest StuCotts]

The ultimate indignity. The late-night comedians can now get a laugh by merely mentioning Spitzer's name. I'm not sure they necessarily need to say anything else. But they do. Last night Letterman said Spitzer celebrated Easter by spending it with somebody called Bunny.

[AdamSmith]

New dirt...

Madam's tell-all book reveals Eliot Spitzer prostitute scandal dirt

Kristin Davis, the Manhattan madam known as disgraced former Gov. Eliot Spitzer's personal "Madam Butterfly," blows the whistle on him and others in her gang of clients in a tell-all book available online.

The busty, bottle-blond bombshell writes in "The Manhattan Madam" that Spitzer, a client of her escort service, was "good for a call at least once a week" from 2004 to 2006 - when she cut him off because he liked it too rough.

Spitzer meant "thousands of dollars of steady income for me and my ladies," wrote Davis, "that is, until the complaints began coming in hot and heavy" about the client who gave the phony name "James."

"James was getting rough and too aggressive with the girls - repeatedly pressuring them to do things they didn't want to do."

She also said Spitzer tended to obsess about a girl, would want to see her every day and was pushy and whiny with her."

But his biggest problem, she said, was that he didn't want to use a condom, and "he'd be a real weasel about it, too."

"Eventually, this is what I told 'James,'" she writes. "'I no longer feel comfortable with you as a client. You are blacklisted. Please don't ever call me or my other phone bookers again. Thank you and good luck.'"

She later dropped the ban. ...

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2009/02/05...iot_spitze.html

[caeron]

Hhaha. The image of Eliot Spitzer being a weasel about using condoms strikes me as very funny for some reason.

Thanks for the update.

[Guest StuCotts]

New dirt...

This item would have gotten screaming headlines on the front page last March. Now it's given relatively discreet treatment on page 2. See how fleeting fame, even infamy, is. I suspect Spitzer is grateful for that.