Question about Mormons

[TotallyOz]

I have been in an area for the past few weeks that is heavily populated with Mormons. They have been very nice and sweet and I have enjoyed meeting so many of them. However, I have a massage therapist who lives in a neighborhood of all Mormons and she said they will not allow her son to play with their children as they are not Mormons. The kid is 5 and just moved to the area so there is no history. I thought this was peculiar so I asked a few others who live in mostly Mormon neighborhoods and they all said the same thing. I was a bit surprised and shocked at this. Has anyone had any experiences with this or heard similar stories?

[Guest epigonos]

To answer your question one would have to know where you live. I taught for many years in a suburb of Los Angles where many Mormons lived. In this area what you are talking about would most likely NEVER happen. Now if, for example, you are living in a small town in southern Utah YES it could definitely happen. The larger the town the less likely this woud happen -- the smaller the town the more likely this would happen. My mothers family, though from Utah, was not Mormon and as a child I spent my summers there -- trust me on this one. My mother died in 1995 at age 91. She grew up in Utah and didn't come to California until 1929. She was raised in a small town about fifty miles south of Salt Lake and had many childhood Mormon friends with whom she remained on close terms all of her life. Had she lived in southeastern Utah that would likely not have been the case.

[OneFinger]

I totally believe the statements of your massage therapist IF she lives in a neighborhood that is predominately Mormon. I grew up in Utah as a faithful Mormon and my parents wouldn't allow me to play with kids that were not Mormon. (In fact, it wasn't just enough for the kids to be Mormon - they had to come from a faithful Mormon family.)

The Mormon Church has preached against this practice for several years. But, as the saying goes, you can lead a horse to drink but you can't make them water.

I live in an area near a military base so my Utah neighborhood is much more diverse than most in Utah. But, even in my own neighborhood, the Mormons don't talk or interact with me or other non-Mormons. I've been referred to as a "Gentile" because I'm not Mormon. But, the neighborhood "gentiles" seem to stick together and we're all great friends.

The isolation of Mormons extends well beyond children and encroaches into non-religious issues. For example, every elected official in my city and all city employees are faithful Mormons. All city meetings begin with prayer and it feels like a religious service. Further, they routinely address people by their religious titles and NOT their city title. The Mayor is a Mormon Stake President and everyone (except the "gentiles") refer to him as PRESIDENT Smith and not as MAYOR Smith. The city councilmen refer to each other as "Elder" or "Sister".

In addition, my city has an emergency preparedness program. The purpose of this group is to set up a neighborhood disaster team to assist in the event of flood, fire, earthquake, etc.

Unfortunately, the city has defined the neighborhood teams to correlate with the boundaries of the Mormon ward. (A ward is a congregation is that has set boundaries defined by the Mormon Church.) The neighborhood Mormon church building is designated as the disaster relief center where people would meet to receive help or shelter.

I do not know of a single person on any of the 20+ teams in my city that is not Mormon. In fact I have several non-Mormon neighbors that have volunteered to be part of those teams and they've been told "thanks, but all of our positions are filled".

Another very subtle snub occurs with the local Boy Scout troops. All of the Boy Scout troops in my city are sponsored by the Mormon Church. As a fund raiser (yearly fee) they will place an American flag on your lawn for all national holidays. I've tried for YEARS to hire them to provide a flag on my lawn. To my face the boys appear anxious and willing. But the leaders always find an excuse to not accept my check and promise to "stop by later" to set it up.

The same thing has happened with several other non-Mormon neighbors who have tried to get flags. It seems like the Mormons want to remains isolationist and avoid the "contamination" of non-Mormons.

Approximately 98% of the Utah Legislature is Mormon and most proposed bills have distinct religious undertones.

I have friends at work who are Mormon. They claim that what I'm experiencing is not an intentional snub. They say that Mormons just aren't used to interacting with people outside their congregation (unless they are serving on a Mormon mission).

So, why do I live in Utah? Because I got tired of witnessing cross burnings by the KKK and dealing with the local paramilitary militia when I lived in Michigan. (Yes, in the year 2000 they still had KKK cross burnings in Michigan.)

At least most Utahns are non-violent and unarmed. Makes me glad I'm a member of Pink Pistols (gay shooting group).

[Guest StuCotts]

My most vivid memory of things Mormon is of a drag queen I used to escort to social events. He had fled from his family and his unbearable life with them to a non-Mormon city. He was as close-mouthed as possible on the subject. He was sweet, and impressively hung. In tight skirts, he had to do contortions to disguise his basket. But that's a digression.

The point of this post is the cable series called Big Love (HBO, Sundays). It's about polygamous Mormons, who I understand are a small minority. If I were a Mormon I think I'd be at least a little indignant at the depictions. The characters are almost all sleazily dishonest, twistedly evil, crazy enough to be put away, mindlessly hostile to all outsiders, or a combination of all those things. Lots of plot, and none of it is flattering.

Does anybody who knows more about Mormonism than I do watch the show? How accurate is it?

[Guest SouthernMan]

AAAHHH! Cute little missionary Mormon boys! Just love them!

Always dressed in black slacks, white dress shirt, and black tie, peddling down the streets on their bicycles, in the most God awful heat/humidity of DC summers.

I always invite them in, give them a cold drink, and discuss/receive yet another copy of that Mormon Bible! I do so enjoy their company.

Now, of course, that might have something to do with my first enounter with them. I was 22, good looking and so trashy! Two cute teenage Mormon boys on mission, show up at my door, come inside, proceed to have a few beers, a few tokes of pot, rock out and get down and dirty!

Of course, that was the only time I scored with Mormon misssionaries, but in homage to that memory, Mormon missionary boys are always welcome in my home, and no I DON'T hit on them!

[OneFinger]

The point of this post is the cable series called Big Love (HBO, Sundays)... Does anybody who knows more about Mormonism than I do watch the show? How accurate is it?

I have watched every episode of Big Love and I usually find it amazingly accurate. But, at times, it is exaggerated and there are obvious flaws in the story line.

I believe the portrayal of the "compound" polygamous to be very accurate. Their dress, mannerisms, subservient role of wives, living conditions, etc. are right on. I also feel the leadership council is fairly represented. Yes, compound families own NOTHING and everything is owned or provided by the church. It's known in Mormonism as the United Order.

There are some family groups (like the TV Henderson family) that have broken ties with the compound group and run private businesses. But this is really an exception to the lifestyle and I don't buy the openness and community assimilation portrayed by the Henderson’s. My experience is that most non-compound polygamists continue to follow the "old style" dress, don't attend public school, do not make friends with "outside" kids, and certainly don't work in a non-polygamist business.

I've had non-compound polygamists as neighbors. I would often say "hello" to the kids and/or their parents when I passed by their house while they were working in the yard. The wives and children would never respond to my greeting without first looking at the father/husband for his non-verbal approval to respond.

I also don't buy the story line of a polygamist group or family getting involved in a gambling business. That would never happen. Current polygamists in Utah are involved in businesses such as landscaping/nursery, waste disposal, farming, and manufacturing. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that their businesses are similar to the "sweat shop" environments that exist in the garment industry or third-world countries. But I can't imagine that they would be involved in something that is illegal (like gambling in Utah) or against their moral principles.

The past couple of episodes have touched on their belief of "blood atonement". That is totally accurate. Blood atonement is the doctrine that in order to repent or be forgiven for "major" sins your blood must be shed. I can remember numerous instances where there have been murders among polygamists groups when leaders felt atonement was necessary. In fact, there have been blood atonement murders in Utah within the past 5-10 years. It really does happen.

As an aside, I believe Utah is one of the only states that continues to practice capital punishment by firing squad. (The prisoner has a choice of lethal injection or firing squad.) Since a bullet causes blood shed it meets the criteria for blood atonement. Recent attempts to outlaw the firing squad can't even make it through legislative committee and be placed on the ballot for a vote.

In short, I really enjoy the Big Love series and feel it is much more accurate than inaccurate.

FYI, a long-time friend of mine who is gay is the Prophet of a local church for gays. Several of their members have multiple partners in committed polygamist-like relationships.

[TotallyOz]

This is an absolutly fascination discussion. I have really enjoyed the opinions expressed here.

I had a talk today with a "liberal" Mormon who knows I am openly gay and run gay adult sites. She is OK with it. She said she had an openly gay friend who moved to her city and opened a business. The business was successful until the community found out he was gay and then he was ignored. He got fed up with all the BS and moved to Vegas.

I have also seen many homes in Utah with a front door and a side door. I was told that this was for the different familys of the husband. I have also been told that they are very strict and that they are not allowed to associate with outsiders. I am talking of those with multiple wives BTW.

I love multiple partners and expressed this to one Mormon lady and she was highly offended. She said it was only acceptable in the Church's eyes for a man to have multiple wives and not vice versa. I said that was not fair and she said that was the doctrin.

I have really enjoyed my stay in this little Mormon mecca. The funniest thing happened last week when I went shopping and this cute clerk in a clothing store said he saw my profile on a site. We chatted until his boss came close and then the conversationi quickly ended.