Tipping; Once Again

[Guest Kregger]

Aunty, the ones scamming several foreigners are the ones you want to avoid! These boys are not interested in expats and expats are not interested in them, for obvious reasons, they are scam artists. And, yes, there are many of these prizes. You can keep em!

 

I am an expat now and used to be a tourist. So I know both sides of this coin. Believe me, tourists can learn from expats. Tourists have NOTHING to teach to expats.

 

As far as spoiling the pond, it is not BS. If people started paying 5000 B for a short time, and most of the boys started EXPECTING that, then people would just start going to places like Brazil where the same can be had for under 1000 B. Pattaya is not the riviera or Rio. It needs to offer relatively cheap sex to you sex tourists, or they will just go elsewhere.

[Guest buaseng]

If people started paying 5000 B for a short time

 

(and)

 

Tourists have NOTHING to teach to expats

 

Now that's an excellent thought. Maybe it would shift some of you cheapskate expats into the 21st century instead of trying to live like dinosaurs at the start of the 1990s. Get into the real world instead of the fantasy land you are trying to create for yourself for your own selfish purposes.

 

Tourists can teach you expats something - that is a bit of respect for other people, especially the bar boys you are trying to rip off and abuse on the cheap.

[Smiles]

" ... Tourists have NOTHING to teach to expats.

... If people started paying 5000 B for a short time, and most of the boys started EXPECTING that, then people would just start going to places like Brazil where the same can be had for under 1000 B. Pattaya is not the riviera or Rio. It needs to offer relatively cheap sex to you sex tourists, or they will just go elsewhere ... "

Probably everyone can learn something from everyone else dear Kregger, no matter their status ... kind of what message boards are all about, eh?

For instance, from this thread I just learned that you are a silly twit. See, the system works.

 

About your second point: the esteemed sex tourists of Thailand are 'Rice Queens' ( definitely not a denigrating term in my books ... myself being of that ilk ) and are attracted to 'Asian men', often to exclusion.

I seriously doubt there would be a tsunami of old overweight Europeans and N American Asian-lovers flooding the beaches in Rio just because the price of an off goes up a bit in Whore-On-Sea.

 

Cheers ...

 

[payless]

What people tip is totally irrelevant but it is fun to read the arguments. The ex-pats here contribute far more to the bars than most tourists as in my case I spend probably about 50.000 every month on dining and drinks and tips to the boys. (I almost never off a boy as I don't need to.)

 

It is the expats who keep the place rolling along in all seasons and yes if it wasn't for the tourists coming here there would be few expats and even fewer bars and fewer boys so we all serve each other.

 

Most expats enjoy the fresh conversation with the tourists when they come on their vacation and we can smile when they tell us how poor we are and how much they tip. I can tut tut and say 200 is too much. I can watch them look down on me.

 

But it is all bull shit really - most ex-pats here are pretty wealthy but just mean as Thailand tends to make you mean. They are also street wise just as the boys are.

 

Even my moniker here gets buaseng going.. tip what u like the Thais don't think you are an idiot you are JAI DEE (good heart) and they will make you feel warm.

 

I think you are Jai Dee too as I know that boy will now be so happy he will go with me for free...

 

believe it or not...

[Guest Kregger]

Actually, I do not believe most gay sex tourists in Pattaya are rice queens. They like rice, and they like bread and tortillas too. Pattaya offers a heady mix of fun, and part of the appeal is that it is relatively cheap fun, for tourists and expats. If you pretend differently, you are delusional.

 

So, the argument isn't really that people don't want cheap sex, it is only about HOW cheap.

If those sex tourists on high horses really believed their BS, they would be paying EXACTLY the cost of a London rentboy, who as we all know, charge by the HOUR. But they will never do that, don't kid yourselves.

 

And if you must have cheap rice, there are other pastures, Burma and Cambodia.

 

On a personal note, I still pay more than I have to, don't ask me why. Never had even one complaint or lack of welcome on return.

[Guest aot87]

As some who is not an expat, but who visits pattaya twice a year for 3 weeks at a time, can some kind expat please tell us once and for all what the going rate should be for both short and over night stays

[Gaybutton]

can some kind expat please tell us once and for all what the going rate should be for both short and over night stays

 

I don't think there's any way to do that because no matter what anyone recommends, someone always disputes it. However, my recommendation is 1000 baht for short time and 1500 baht for overnight. That's in Pattaya. In both Bangkok and Phuket you can add at least 500 baht to both.

[Guest Kregger]

I don't think there's any way to do that because no matter what anyone recommends, someone always disputes it. However, my recommendation is 1000 baht for short time and 1500 baht for overnight. That's in Pattaya. In both Bangkok and Phuket you can add at least 500 baht to both.

I think many tourists are now paying MORE than that for boys from Boztown bars, probably because they are suckered by the boys who suggest these higher rates, for example, 1500 baht short time.

 

I think the above rates are indeed standard. I would suggest paying a bit LESS in cases of bad performance, for example 700 baht short time, 1200 overnight if the guy just sleeps and no sex in the morning.

 

I have heard many people tell me the standard rate in Sunnee beer bar is MUCH LESS, more like 500 baht short time. I have always doubted this would really be adequate, unless you are talking about a freelancer from the beach, etc. But probably somewhat less than the Boyztown rates would be acceptable.

 

Payment expectations are also affected by where the farang is staying. Howard's Budget Hotel, lower, 5 star hotel, higher.

[Guest buaseng]

However, my recommendation is 1000 baht for short time and 1500 baht for overnight. That's in Pattaya. In both Bangkok and Phuket you can add at least 500 baht to both.

 

I am in total agreement with that

 

 

I think the above rates are indeed standard. I would suggest paying a bit LESS in cases of bad performance, for example 700 baht short time, 1200 overnight if the guy just sleeps and no sex in the morning.

And also totally agree with that.

 

I wonder why, if Kregger agrees - as he says he does, he and Payless attacked me as paying too much and inflating the going rate? You can find nowhere in this thread where I have advocated tipping rates higher than those quoted above!

 

[Guest painai]

I learned the other night not to play around with how much you are giving. The Boyztown off thought I might give less than 1000 ( I actually gave more), but the whole scene turned into a money scene rather than a real fun time. He later told me many farang give less than promised and he was afraid I might be one of those. Since I was in a bar I don't normally frequent, he didn't know me and that led to the ugly scene.

[Gaybutton]

the whole scene turned into a money scene rather than a real fun time.

 

Unfortunately, sometimes the whole thing is ruined when the boy starts trying to negotiate how much he'll get. You're right, that takes the joy and fun out of the whole thing. I know of one boy that works the beach and he's all over the potential customer and as lovey-dovey as it gets while still at the beach, making the potential customer feel as if he's about to have the experience of his life. Then, as soon as he and his customer get to the hotel room, he starts rattling off what he'll do and how much he expects to be paid for it. If a boy ever did that to me, he'd find his butt out the door and he'd be lucky to get even taxi fare.

 

Don't forget, the amount the boy receives is considered to be a tip. People have to judge for themselves how much to tip for lousy service or no service at all. I know of another beach boy who happens to be very well built. I've had more than one person tell me that when they get to the hotel room he just lies there and does absolutely nothing. He expects you to service him.

 

I think the smart thing to do is to let the boy know what you expect him to do and how much you're willing to give him for it before taking him "off." Doing that should avoid most potential problems that commonly occur and ruins the whole thing. If the boy is really good, then I'd give him more than I said I would. If he is lousy, I would still tip him the amount I said I would, but that would be the last time I'd ever take him. If he doesn't do what he agreed to do, or does it for about five seconds and that's the end of it, then he would get less than I told him he'd get and I'd let him know why.

 

I also think that several people posting on this thread write as if they are mad as hell. I don't know why, but they sure come across that way. I think it is a mistake to turn the whole experience into a money issue. It should be an enjoyable experience for both the "farang" and the boy without worrying so much as to whether you should give him 800 baht or 1000 baht. Some of these people sound as if they would "off" a boy and essentially say, "Ok, now we're in the hotel room. Gimme my fuckin' blow job, make it good, and then get the hell out of here!" If that's your idea of a good time, so be it. Personally, I prefer that everyone ends up happy and the boy would be glad to go "off" with you again instead of having to think, "Oh no! Not this guy again."

[Guest pete1969]

I think that 1,000 ST and 1,500 LT has been the accepted rate in the tourist areas for a several years now. One can adjust downward in more rural areas (ask a Thai friend for the going rate) and should adjust upward if taking a boy from a first rate bar or if the boy is a superstar. Boys picked up outside the bar (on the beach or on the street) are almost always 200-500 baht lower. Long term offs mean a lower daily rate, and frequent customers can sometimes get a discount depending on the season or the boy's financial situation. Tipping is not as cut and dried as some want it to be, especially for those living in LOS.

 

Like many farang on their first trip to LOS, I picked up the basic 1,000/1,500 rule from Gaybutton's website when I was doing some Internet research before my trip. At that time, his was the only website or resource for tourists I found where tip amounts were openly discussed. Frankly, I think GB has done as much as anyone in the world to set these acceptable tip amounts as for a long time his was the only travel-related site discussing actual tipping amounts. His was a very good site to introduce first time gay tourists to the world of gay LOS and barboys. It is a real shame that resource is gone and that Thailand censors such a site. GB kind of drilled into my head that 1,000 bt is the minimum acceptable tip in tourist areas for barboys, and I've always followed this rule. He probably did the same for countless gay tourists coming to LOS.

 

I also want to say that when I am vacation that I have money to blow, so I don't mind tipping an extra 500 baht to a good guy. When I lived in LOS for several months, I found myself being a bit less generous (but always fair) and taking advantage more of cheaper options (boys from less expensive bars and more rural areas and boys from the streets). For example, when I was in BKK, the only bar guys I took were from Solid, and for the most part, the BF and I stuck to the hustlers near the Royal Palace (who charge 500 bt for offs and who were as good as any boys in the bars IMO). So, I can understand both sides here.

 

Living in America, I never off the $200-$400 guys advertising in mags and on the Internet although if I was richer I definitely would. Instead, if I want a hustler, I go for street hustlers, or for regulars I've set up through other sources, and I rarely pay over $60. Likewise, in LOS, I tend to pay for what I can afford at that time and have no problems finding the right guys to fit my budget. IMO, there is nothing wrong for people paying for what they can (or want to) afford. It will differ for everyone, and it is useless to think that everyone will be paying the same price for every guy.

 

Pete

[payless]

I wonder why, if Kregger agrees - as he says he does, he and Payless attacked me as paying too much and inflating the going rate? You can find nowhere in this thread where I have advocated tipping rates higher than those quoted above!

 

buaseng I never attacked you for the amount you pay, just the illogicl that you use to support your arguments.

 

I don't care what you pay, I think hat no individual here has any influence on the market, there are just too many boys and too many bars and too much competition from the internet for that to happen.

 

I have never actually stated whether I personally think you pay too much or too little. I just think it is an amusing argument.

 

At the end of the day the boys are prostitutes and we are punters. They dream of a new life and we dream that some kid is in love with us.

 

Amen

[Dick]

Kregger: If fools like you continue to overpay for services, all you do is poop in the pond for future punters.

 

I remember the first time I came to Pattaya. Had read all the advice given, yet still a little unsure of how much to tip and then overly concerned lest I queer the regulars' pitch or as Kregger nicely puts it 'poop in the pond'. Saw two old codgers sitting in a lower tier in Panorama, so I asked if they could give me a little advice. No no no they said. That's far too much. They're more than happy with 300 Baht said one, the other nodding in agreement.

 

Now even as a novice to Pattaya it seemed to me pretty low, but I thought it worth the experiment and in the morning I offered the boy 300 Baht. He froze, speechless! I quickly looked in my hand and said 'Oh sorry, mistake' and brought out another 500B to cover my embarrassment. He gracefully accepted the 800 with just an um and a little hesitation, and then was out the door.

 

The moral of this story is twofold. Firstly, Never accept advice from old codgers, and secondly, you'll soon get a feel for what's acceptable and what isn't. Trial and error. It's usually the right amount when you and he feel comfortable with it.

 

 

[Guest Kregger]

Hi Dick,

 

I never said underpay either.

And you are correct, that is the way to tell you have underpaid, it WILL be communicated.

The reason the fees are vague is that they hope to take advantage of the naive, guilt-ridden, and overly generous. Also, some nationalities naturally pay more, either culturally or they have really strong currencies.

 

People should pay the going rate for the local market, with some fudge room for extra rewards for good performance and less rewards for bad performance.

 

It is true expats can often get special deals by arrangement. For example, you might know some boys who when they don't get offed from a tourist they can call you and have an expats special rate, win win for everyone.

 

Actually, tourists with cell phones could do the same thing with boys they meet after the first time or two. Just ask, you might be surprised, if you are on a budget. A whore's time is like an airline seat, better a discount rate than nothing. Got to get those asses in the seats!

 

If that offends you, don't try it. Perhaps you always pay full fare for first class tickets and don't use frequent flyer miles.

[Guest laurence]

When I started this topic I never expected such an outpouring of responses.

It does seem that the long time residents and the short time tourists do compliment each other in keeping the "scene" alive and well.

Unfortunately there are still the cheapskates who live off the crumbs of others, but then, every society has its roaches to contend with.

Thanks everyone for your input and opinions.

 

[Guest noy9000]

However, my recommendation is 1000 baht for short time and 1500 baht for overnight. That's in Pattaya. In both Bangkok and Phuket you can add at least 500 baht to both.

 

I believe you're writing what you think (since you're local to Pattaya, you're more conservative about the tipping here in Bangkok <I'm here> or maybe Phuket). I believe the tipping is the same in the 3 location, the tipping will be lower if you're in other province such as Chiang Rai (where it's 500 for short time, it's the 'asking' price from the boys themself when I visit).

 

In the beginning, I'm used to give out 2,000THB for short time. I'm now giving 1,000THB (w/o any problem, if there is any - it's normally an additional 100THB for taxi).

 

[Guest pepperami]

However, my recommendation is 1000 baht for short time and 1500 baht for overnight.

 

Hi,

 

Is overnight considered "long time" then? When would that go up to, breakfast? What about time spent together during the day - like going the beach?

 

Also, I wonder what people pay for massage?

 

Thanks for your advice!

 

 

[Gaybutton]

Is overnight considered "long time" then? When would that go up to, breakfast? What about time spent together during the day - like going the beach?

 

Short time is when you and the boy go to your hotel room, take care of whatever it is you brought him there for, and then he leaves. Long-time is overnight. It's hard to be more precise about it. You don't determine his tip by clicking a stopwatch and timing how long he's been with you. If you go to breakfast, offer him breakfast too, for crying out loud. If he wants it. fine. If not, give him his money and send him on his way. If you want him to stick with you, that calls for a new arrangement.

 

How much should you pay for a massage? If he comes to your room to give it to you, then I would think he ought to be paid the same amount you would pay for short time. If it is a boy you have "offed" and taken to your room, then if he gives you a massage along with everything else, and if it's a good one and lasts around a half hour or so, then I'd increase his tip by 200 baht. If it's just a short and sweet massage, then that's part of the "package" and I wouldn't see a need for a tip increase.

 

Something that puzzles me, and I have written about this before, is that sex with these boys is the primary reason a great many "farang" come to Thailand in the first place, and yet many want to give these boys the least amount of money they can get away with. "Don't give him 1000 baht. Give him 600 or 700 baht," as if the few hundred extra baht is going to cause these people to go into bankruptcy. Meanwhile, these same people spend big bucks on the airfare, stay in hotels these boys could never afford, eat expensive dinners, drink as if Prohibition begins again the next day, but they get all bent out of shape if they think they're over-tipping these boys. To me, no matter how people try to justify it, it all boils down to being cheap.

[payless]

...Something that puzzles me, and I have written about this before, is that sex with these boys is the primary reason a great many "farang" come to Thailand in the first place, and yet many want to give these boys the least amount of money they can get away with. "Don't give him 1000 baht. Give him 600 or 700 baht," as if the few hundred extra baht is going to cause these people to go into bankruptcy. Meanwhile, these same people spend big bucks on the airfare, stay in hotels these boys could never afford, eat expensive dinners, drink as if Prohibition begins again the next day, but they get all bent out of shape if they think they're over-tipping these boys. To me, no matter how people try to justify it, it all boils down to being cheap.

 

 

Of course if you offed a boy and dined him at Manhattan Restaurant and spent 4000 on the food and wine you would then look cheap paying him just 1000 or 1500 Baht.

 

I guess having the rear end of a boy for the night is worth more than having the rear end of some dead cow. So a tip of 5000 Baht would be more in order.

 

It is all realtive and as long as both parties ae satisfied does it really matter? I think that what gets people's backs up are people like GB et al who believe they can dictate a rate to others for tips. Some people tip 3000 or 4000 Bhat a time - good luck to them and good luck to the boy. Others pay a lot less; so what?

[Gaybutton]

people like GB et al who believe they can dictate a rate to others for tips.

 

Trying to say I'm dictating how much you have to pay is absolutely ridiculous. I'm not in a position to dictate anything. If you want to be cheap, there's nothing much I can do about it, is there? You might at least admit that you want to get by with giving these boys as little as possible while satisfying you're own personal lust.

 

Like I said, try any which way you want to try to justify it, but from where I sit it's nothing but giving yourself an excuse to be cheap and being proud of yourself for it.

[payless]

Trying to say I'm dictating how much you have to pay is absolutely ridiculous. I'm not in a position to dictate anything. If you want to be cheap, there's nothing much I can do about it, is there? You might at least admit that you want to get by with giving these boys as little as possible while satisfying you're own personal lust.

 

Like I said, try any which way you want to try to justify it, but from where I sit it's nothing but giving yourself an excuse to be cheap and being proud of yourself for it.

 

GB, thanks for taking the time to reply. Just for the record I have never actually stated what I pay or condemned what others pay only their arguments to justify the amount they deem is correct.

I am still of the age and of the looks that I probably do not to need to pay for sex, I never test that theory as I am monogamously coupled with a non-Thai partner..

I understand from your posts that you are an older guy and fat and I see from another of your posts also unwashed so I guess the boy might leave his experience with you feeling cheated whether you give him 100 or 2000 Baht. He might however actually just be a money-boy and just like money and not care.

 

You do try and dictate by trying to insult the people who might put a contrary view to you.

 

I think your deliberate smear of my anonymous cyber character is disgraceful and merits an immediate apology from you.

 

 

[Guest Kregger]

I completely disagree with GB who throws the CHEAP insult around so liberally. Sometimes I feel like a 20 baht chicken with rice dish on the street. It tastes good, its fast and convenient, and costs almost nothing. Sometimes I want to eat at a fancy restaurant. The massage and sex biz is much the same, there are many possible price points, depending on lots of variables. Going for the lower cost options once in a while doesn't make you a cheap person. One of my old friends is a dollar millionaire many times over. He takes food home from food buffets and plays the frequent flyer game like a pro. Is he a cheap person? No, he's rich so he is called "eccentric." When the non-rich MOST OF US! act in thrifty ways, we are personally insulted by the likes of GB. Typical.

[Gaybutton]

I think your deliberate smear of my anonymous cyber character is disgraceful and merits an immediate apology from you.

 

Think whatever you want. You merit no apology from me and you won't get one. Old, yes. Fat, yes. Unwashed, no. If you can't figure out that I use that as a joke, then you've got a problem. I also did not say anything at all about how much you do or do not pay. I have no idea how much you pay. Whether you pay or not, and no matter how young and good looking you may be, if you "off" a boy then your age and looks do not equal "I don't have to pay as much as people who are older and don't look as good as me." I also appreciate your assertion that I'm trying to dictate to others what they should pay about as much as you appreciate my posts. I've already said that I'm not in a position to dictate anything to anyone.

 

In the post directly above, we've got one person telling us we ought to be comparing how much to tip these boys to what people pay for food or whether they use their frequent flier miles. Sorry, but I don't buy any of that.

 

To me, the bottom line is that these boys are the reason most gay "farang" come to Thailand at all. And yet we get post after post from people trying to justify giving them as little as possible. Personally, I do think that's cheap and I also think it really stinks. So yes, you're doggone right I'm going to say it's cheap. You, my friend, can think what you want and pay whatever you can get away with.

[Guest MonkeySee]

Cheap is in the eye of the beholder, GB. You are painting here with a broad brush. I remember a trip to Cambodia quite a few years ago. A motorcycle boy showed me around the capital city for a few days. He took me to a brothel and we each had a young lady. I paid the five dollars that I was told was the going rate (of course, many people could say that was cheap). The motorcycle boy gave his girl one dollar and thought he was a big shot (and very proud of himself) when he tipped her a few more riel (20 cents). Talk about a cheapskate.

 

I have met young men on the street that have offered their services. After inquiring about what they enjoy doing in bed, I then asked what kind of compensation they would expect. The response was 500 baht. Am I a cheapskate in your book for paying what they wanted?