Guest laurence Posted March 5, 2007 Posted March 5, 2007 As relatively new to the bar scene in Pattaya I noticed there is a wide divergence in tipping at the go go bars and clubs. Of course there are the cheapskates who tip nothing even though they fondle the boys but that is not what I write of. At the go go bars I like to give a particular good dancer or cute boy a 20 or maybe 40 Baht tip just because I enjoy his little show. If someone sits with me I believe 100 Baht is a minimum tip. It there is some hands on experience I then tip 200 Baht. Sometimes in someplaces the experience evolves to kissing, chuck wowing and smokeing which may result in a 500 Baht tip depending on the full nature of the experience. For an short time off I also believe 1,000 Baht is a fair tip in most instances. However in speaking with friends here it seems that my tipping scale is far in excess of what they might pay for the same services especially for intimate encounters in a bar. I know this topic has been hashed about but I thought to see what others may think. Quote
Guest buaseng Posted March 5, 2007 Posted March 5, 2007 As relatively new to the bar scene in Pattaya I noticed there is a wide divergence in tipping at the go go bars and clubs. Of course there are the cheapskates who tip nothing even though they fondle the boys but that is not what I write of. I know this topic has been hashed about but I thought to see what others may think. The amounts you quote are, in my opinion, fair and about right. Don't listen to the vociferous cheapskates who say otherwise - most of them are resident expats anyway who try to depress the market to stretch their (in quite a few cases) meagre pensions. A lot of them settled in Pattaya when things were a lot different and 500-700 baht short time was considered more than ample and drinks in the gogo bars around 80 baht. Inflation and the financial awareness of today's boys has caught up with them and they not find they cannot afford the lfestyle to which they were originally accustomed. Quote
bkkguy Posted March 5, 2007 Posted March 5, 2007 A lot of them settled in Pattaya when things were a lot different and 500-700 baht short time was considered more than ample and how much has the average salary of a doorman or waiter or 7/11 sales staff gone up in the same period (or even a Thai teacher or public servent for that matter) - 100% like you are suggesting here? and baht bus fares for Thais? and noodles in the soi? and rent on Thai style rooms? falung teacher salaries? I don't know about Pattaya, but in Bangkok while the cost of drink or off in Soi Twilight has gone up substantially (as has the tip expectation of the boys) I don't know that I have seen a comsensurate increase in the basic barboy cost of living! bkkguy Quote
fedssocr Posted March 6, 2007 Posted March 6, 2007 Sometimes in someplaces the experience evolves to kissing, chuck wowing and smokeing which may result in a 500 Baht tip depending on the full nature of the experience. For an short time off I also believe 1,000 Baht is a fair tip in most instances. OK, I thought I had been around the block. But what in the world is "chuck wowing"? Otherwise I think your tipping sounds reasonable to me as a tourist. Why wouldn't you invite a boy whose dancing you like to come sit with you though instead of a $0.60 tip for dancing? I suppose I tend to base the value I put on these things on my experience in my home area. For me the idea of paying US$30 for a "short time" still seems like an immense bargain. And while I would likely not pay some one in a western strip club a few dollars just for sitting to talk to me, since it is the custom to do so in LoS I don't mind doing so. For all the money I am spending on the trip a few more bucks isn't going to kill me. And if it helps these guys have a little bit more fun in their lives or whatever they are going to use it for then, why not? It's just a bit of a redistribution of my wealth to Thailand. vinapu 1 Quote
Guest luvthai Posted March 6, 2007 Posted March 6, 2007 I guess it boils down to tipping according to service and what you feel comfortable with. The one thing that bothers me is being in a bar and seeing these boys get pawed over and then the guy just gets up and leaves without tipping the boy anything. I have seen and heard of the boys banning together tho and getting even with those that tip low or cheat the boy out of what they were promised. Quote
Guest mgluyas Posted March 6, 2007 Posted March 6, 2007 Hi, having just returned home from Pattaya to Melbourne, and suffering the I want to go back blues. When I was there I was a virgin to the whole gogo scene. I just sat back and said I am on holidays and my money means more to these guys than it does to me.MUCH MORE.Therefore give genourously the karma is good. Mind you I hold the same view back home Michael Quote
Guest buaseng Posted March 6, 2007 Posted March 6, 2007 and how much has the average salary of a doorman or waiter or 7/11 sales staff gone up in the same period (or even a Thai teacher or public servent for that matter) - 100% like you are suggesting here? and baht bus fares for Thais? and noodles in the soi? and rent on Thai style rooms? falung teacher salaries? I don't know about Pattaya, but in Bangkok while the cost of drink or off in Soi Twilight has gone up substantially (as has the tip expectation of the boys) I don't know that I have seen a comsensurate increase in the basic barboy cost of living! No-one has suggested that inflation has been applied equally across the board, far from it. After all you are not comparing like with like. The main factor now is that the bar boys are a lot wiser to the ways of the world outside Thailand and have also wised up to the fact they they were being taken advantage of for the sort of services they were providing. I personally met a bar boy in Bangok who knew exactly the sorts of money that gay hookers in the West were earning and he quite openly admitted to me that he had upped his tip requirement as a result, and I have no doubt that the word has got around to others. The sort of money that bars and the bar boys can charge in Bangkok is obviously higher as in a lot of cases they are more worldy wise than their compatriots in other places and, in any case, Bangkok has always been far more expensive than, for instance, Pattaya or Phuket. Quote
Guest laurence Posted March 6, 2007 Posted March 6, 2007 OK, I thought I had been around the block. But what in the world is "chuck wowing"? Otherwise I think your tipping sounds reasonable to me as a tourist. Why wouldn't you invite a boy whose dancing you like to come sit with you though instead of a $0.60 tip for dancing? Sorry about that ! Did I spell it wrong? Chuck wow = jo or masturbate. Well, I do often invite boys to sit with me but many are not always my type but I always make it a point to tip someone in every bar I go to in a night. Some of the ladyboys are great dancers and flirts so they get a tip even though I would not necessary want one to sit with me. I am pleased with the responses I received to my initial post. Thanks!!! Quote
bkkguy Posted March 6, 2007 Posted March 6, 2007 I personally met a bar boy in Bangok who knew exactly the sorts of money that gay hookers in the West were earning and he quite openly admitted to me that he had upped his tip requirement as a result, and I have no doubt that the word has got around to others. I know a typist in Bangkok who knows what typists in the west earn, but when she approached her boss for a raise he suggested that she could take the going rate in Thailand or apply for a job in the west - I suppose the bar boys are lucky to be dealing with more gullible people! next thing you know the taxi drivers will be demanding western rates as well - oh wait I forgot they already are in tourist areas, 200 baht being the average rate for a tuk-tuk to go a few blocks from Patpong. bkkguy Quote
Guest buaseng Posted March 6, 2007 Posted March 6, 2007 I know a typist in Bangkok who knows what typists in the west earn, but when she approached her boss for a raise he suggested that she could take the going rate in Thailand or apply for a job in the west - I suppose the bar boys are lucky to be dealing with more gullible people! There is absolutely no comparison between a typist and a bar boy. For one thing the typist probably works 'normal' hours and also will be employed by some company or other at the going rate in the business community for that sort of job. In addition she will not have to put up with the sort of abuse, mental and verbal (and occasionally physical), meted out to bar boys. Whereas the bar boy works 'unsocial' hours and will be basically self-employed (even though he might work out of a bar) and is therefore perfectly entitled to set the highest rate for his services that he can get away with - and I don't blame him at all. The bottom line is that if you don't like paying the tipping rates the bar boys are charging now, go look elsewhere - there are plenty of freelancers hanging around street corners in Bangkok who would be only too happy to turn a trick for 500 baht (don't let the fact that they are more than likely either drug addicts or diseased deter you from getting your cheap thrills!!). Quote
bkkguy Posted March 7, 2007 Posted March 7, 2007 There is absolutely no comparison between a typist and a bar boy. it makes as much sense for a typist to base his fees on overseas rates as it does for a bar boy to do the same! and does your clever little bar boy check the nationality/city of his customer and adjust the rates comapred to the going rate in the customers home city? and is he keeping up with exchange rate fluctuations daily? bkkguy Quote
Guest Kregger Posted March 7, 2007 Posted March 7, 2007 The local market is the local market. Tourists who overpay (and yes, they are overpaying) due indeed POISON the local market, and inflate the prices. Just stop it. You are creating a pool of corrupt, greedy, sex workers. If you wanted that, STAY HOME! Quote
Guest buaseng Posted March 7, 2007 Posted March 7, 2007 The local market is the local market. Tourists who overpay (and yes, they are overpaying) due indeed POISON the local market, and inflate the prices. Just stop it. You are creating a pool of corrupt, greedy, sex workers. If you wanted that, STAY HOME! Another whinging dinosaur living on the cheap in Thailand! What gives you the right to tell those of us who are regular visitors as tourists to stop paying what we consider is a fair price for the services rendered? If you wish to live on the cheap and pay slave wages to these boys, just to conserve your pension or savings, so be it, but don't dictate to others what we can or can't do when we visit, or demand that we stay at home - you have no more standing and status by living in Thailand as an ex-pat than we do as regular visitors, much as you like to dream otherwise. Quote
payless Posted March 7, 2007 Posted March 7, 2007 Another whinging dinosaur living on the cheap in Thailand! What gives you the right to tell those of us who are regular visitors as tourists to stop paying what we consider is a fair price for the services rendered? buaseng why do u come to Thailand? Is it to take advantage of these poor farm boys who work in bars? . Are you actually paying them whatever you do pay to assuage your own guilt rather than any other logic you might try and attach to the fee? If you were really comparing to the UK I guess you would pay about 6000 baht for each hour the guy spent with you. Finally, have you gone native like Mow lam music, eat siiting on the floor, support Manchester United, pick your nose in public and believe all Thais can do no wrong? Quote
Guest buaseng Posted March 7, 2007 Posted March 7, 2007 Quote Payless - "buaseng why do u come to Thailand? Is it to take advantage of these poor farm boys who work in bars........Are you actually paying them whatever you do pay to assuage your own guilt?" Your board name says it all - you're obviously another one of the ex-pat cheapskates who are actually the ones 'taking advantage of poor farm boys'. I pay them a fair rate for the job and therefore have no guilt to assuage! And I don't think you can find anywhere where I have compared prices for tipping Thai boys with those applicable for similar servies in the UK - that's just a red-herring. (BTW, for your info, the 'going rate' in the UK is now the equivalent of about 9000 baht an hour!) Can't comment on your final paragraph - it's just a load of meaningless waffle ! Quote
payless Posted March 7, 2007 Posted March 7, 2007 What do you think these boys do with the tips? Most of the boys will tell you that they send it home to their families but in truth most will go on their own hedonistic activities, gambling, lottery, karaoke, boys or girls etc.. Only if they are imminently going home to their villages will their families see some of the tips. In many cases other bar workers will use the money so what ever you tip just be happy it all helps keep the sex and gambling show on the road. Did I forget to mention drugs? Of course much of the money that does find its way back to the villages ends up on the lottery. Little of it ends up educating the younger siblings etc. Please don't call me a cynic!! Quote
bkkguy Posted March 7, 2007 Posted March 7, 2007 What gives you the right to tell those of us who are regular visitors as tourists to stop paying what we consider is a fair price for the services rendered? about the same thing that gives you the right to dictate tipping policy! If you wish to live on the cheap and pay slave wages to these boys, just to conserve your pension or savings, so be it, but don't dictate to others If you wish to pay inflated prices to these boys, just to ease your conscience, so be it, but don't dictate to others there are so many pots and kettles around here we could open a kitchen utensils store! bkkguy Quote
Guest buaseng Posted March 8, 2007 Posted March 8, 2007 What do you think these boys do with the tips? Most of the boys will tell you that they send it home to their families but in truth most will go on their own hedonistic activities, gambling, lottery, karaoke, boys or girls etc.. Only if they are imminently going home to their villages will their families see some of the tips. In many cases other bar workers will use the money so what ever you tip just be happy it all helps keep the sex and gambling show on the road. Did I forget to mention drugs? Of course much of the money that does find its way back to the villages ends up on the lottery. Little of it ends up educating the younger siblings etc. Please don't call me a cynic!! Another red herring - it's beginning to smell like a fish shop here! It makes no difference what a boy does with his tips. Does anyone in any other form of commercial transaction have the amount of pay or even tips (as for instance waiters) assessed by what they spend it on? NO, and why should bar boys?. Remuneration for any service or work is according to what is provided not what the recipient spends it on. Your post is just another load of meaningless waffle. If you can't put up a cogent argument I suggest you keep quiet - you are only making yourself look ridiculous. Quote
Guest buaseng Posted March 8, 2007 Posted March 8, 2007 about the same thing that gives you the right to dictate tipping policy! If you wish to pay inflated prices to these boys, just to ease your conscience, so be it, but don't dictate to others there are so many pots and kettles around here we could open a kitchen utensils store! I'm not 'dictating' to anyone - au contraire - it is you who is trying to dictate tipping policy because you, as a resident expat, believe you have a right to do so, when of course you do not. The originator of this thread asked for comments on individual tipping policies. I gave mine. I am not paying inflated prices and I am not easing my conscience - just paying a fair price for services rendered. If you think that is inflated and too much, so be it, you carry on paying slave wages and I will carry on paying the tips I preseently do. End of story! Quote
Guest Kregger Posted March 8, 2007 Posted March 8, 2007 So next time you are in Thailand, to avoid paying slave wages, I hope you are also paying much more for the local rate for: restaurant meals (triple the bill) maid service (tip 500 baht per day) taxi meter Bangkok (pay 10 times the meter fare, its only fair!) movie tickets (pay 500 baht instead of 100 baht) What you fail to see is the LOCAL PRICES are really based on the LOCAL MARKET. By paying more like UK prices, you are only corrupting the LOCAL market. The local market is not a slave market. It is a market, the same as the UK, where different services have different prices associated with it. Nobody is stopping you from overpaying. You assuage your guilt and the boys think you are a stupid idiot. Enjoy! Quote
Guest buaseng Posted March 8, 2007 Posted March 8, 2007 So next time you are in Thailand ..... Enjoy! I will, only 10 days to go till my next visit!! Quote
Guest Aunty Posted March 8, 2007 Posted March 8, 2007 I resent being told (dictated to by expats in Thailand) what I should and shouldn't tip a boy when I'm on holiday in Thailand. I'll tip what I damn well like, and if you expats don't like it, tough titties. These boys are here to serve the tourist trade anyway, not your sorry arses. Quote
Guest Kregger Posted March 8, 2007 Posted March 8, 2007 I resent being told (dictated to by expats in Thailand) what I should and shouldn't tip a boy when I'm on holiday in Thailand. I'll tip what I damn well like, and if you expats don't like it, tough titties. These boys are here to serve the tourist trade anyway, not your sorry arses. Some are, some aren't. Expats are the only people who can really offer them anything long term if that is what they are looking for, so it all balances out. Who is there in the rainy season for these boys? Not your sorry asses, thats for sure. I don't mean to dictate what you should tip. It is not a tip anyway. It is payment for sex services. The only reason it is called a tip is for a legal runaround and also allows punters with more money than sense to overpay, not overtip, for services. A boy working 6 days a week, 10 hours a day, at 7/11 earns 5000 baht per month and these are not considered bad jobs by working class Thais. If fools like you continue to overpay for services, all you do is poop in the pond for future punters. Eventually, it will make Pattaya very passe for sex tourists. Sex tourists follow value for money, and your collective actions over time, are ruining that equation. And before you get all how superior tourists are to expats, you are SEX TOURISTS. Deal with it. And very superficial ones at that, assuming you are a better human being because you indeed do have more money to throw around, two week millionaires that you are. Quote
bkkguy Posted March 8, 2007 Posted March 8, 2007 I'm not 'dictating' to anyone of course not, you just insult and denigrate anyone who does not agree with what you think is "fair and reasonable" - au contraire - it is you who is trying to dictate tipping policy where? I have questioned your dubious logic but never stipulated what was a reasonable tip The originator of this thread asked for comments on individual tipping policies. I gave mine. and anyone who does not agree with you is dismissed as a "cheapskate" bkkguy Quote
Guest Aunty Posted March 8, 2007 Posted March 8, 2007 Some are, some aren't. Expats are the only people who can really offer them anything long term if that is what they are looking for, so it all balances out. Who is there in the rainy season for these boys? Not your sorry asses, thats for sure. bull****. Given that most of these boys are scamming several foreign bfs Quote
