Your advice requested: Transitioning a bar boy to live-in...

[Guest rainwalker]

Last December, I met a young man (FYI: he was 20 at the time, I was 58) who works at a bar and had a great time with him for a week. It was the first time in 20 years of coming to Thailand, and partaking of its many wonders that I could see spending lots of time with one lad.

 

In May, we spent more time together and I really enjoyed his company and attention for another week.

 

Naturally, I paid him well and made sure that he had a good time with me, going scuba diving, jet skiing, go-carting etc. I got full value for my time, money and interest and he told me that I am his "Number 1 Farang" and that he likes me.

 

I like him as well and neither of us are in love with each other; we just have a good time and enjoy our conversations - dictionaries in hand - and our laughter together.

 

Being in the "I'm retiring to Thailand in 6 months" mode, and wanting to continue enjoying his company and treat him well while doing it, I've paid for his university this year and broached the topic of making this a value-for-value full time thing.

 

I stress value for value. This is not love.

 

We are in the beginning of negotiating his leaving the bar, and the associated lifestyle .

 

His opening financial request was, and I quote "I want moter 10000 fater 5000 for room 5000 go school food sanook ......up to you."

 

There were no other requests like I stop seeing other boys or the many other things that are more important than money.

 

What kind of things should I ask him for other than he quit the bar and quit the sex worker industry?

 

I know that a number of folks have, or have had, a relationship with a former bar boy and I'm asking for the combined wisdom of the Board.

 

Prizes will be awarded for the best, most creative, and most bizarre suggestions.

 

The prizes will be awarded in November at The Third Annual Sawatdee Forum Crazy Hat Contest and Booze-Up to be held, as ever, during the Pattaya Gay Festival

 

 

[Guest Hedda]

"What kind of things should I ask him for, other than he quit the bar and quit the sex worker industry? "

 

If it's not love on either side, as you insist, and you are in it because you enjoy his company, why would you ask that he quit the bar ? Remember, living with a 20 year old 24/7, is far different than spending a few holiday weeks romancing some young kid on holiday.

 

What happens if this young guy suspends all income-producing activity to become totally dependent on you, and you discover after a month together that you want more freedom, or maybe even out from 24/7 . . . for whatever reason.

 

If that happens, and it usually does in healthy older males surrounded by young available bodies, , you are going to have one big problem addressing the situation you may have created. The guilt will hang around your neck like an albatross.

 

If it were me, I'd would not ask him to move in for the first six months you are living here permanently. But assuming you feel already committed to that, make sure you have two bedrooms and two TV's, just to give you space and to see what happens 24/7 over the course of several months.

 

You may find that becoming the constant companion of a 20 year old is not what you imagined, especially when politics don't exist, every meal has rice, and the Thai TV soaps get turned on every night, as his family and friends descend to help watch. When HBO vanishes from your TV screen, and you find yourself looking foward to his next trip to the farm, you may wonder if 15 minutes of sex, with the mystery fading fast, is worth it.

 

I suggest you take it slow and don't change the status quo, except for some minor financial help, until six months dating validates your desire for more permanence 24/7. Don't dig that hole too quickly or deeply before you're sure you have a way of exiting gracefully, if and when your butterfly wings start to sprout again.

 

In any event, good luck. You'll need plenty with a 20 year old live-in.

[TotallyOz]

I don

[Guest Hedda]

"I don

[Guest mauRICE]

How much is this boy making now from the bar, including possible stipends from other jai dii farang who are not in love with him?

 

Where does he live; what sort of accommodation is he accustomed to?

 

What university does he go to; where? What does he study?

 

How old are his parents? How many brothers and sisters does he have? Do you know their names? What do they do for a living?

 

Does he have a girlfriend? Is he married or has he been married before? Does he have any children?

 

Is he a heavy drinker? Does he use drugs?

 

Do you know?

 

These are some of the things that I would want to know before I would even contemplate living with someone in a foreign country and culture where I would be but a helpless spectator on his playing field.

 

My family supports quite a few destitute Cambodian and Thai school children and uni students. In our experience, you can comfortably feed, clothe and educate a Thai secondary school student living at home for 40,000Bt a year. A uni student with a part-time job and goverment-subsidised tuition gets 60,000Bt annually. I'm not suggesting that their circumstances are similar to your boy's but merely giving you an idea as to what some very poor but determined Thai adolescents who've never seen a jet ski, eaten at a farang restaurant (not even KFC!) or held a cell phone are living on as they attempt to (self) actualise their goals.

[TotallyOz]

But I wonder when you plan to stop this buying spree. Aren't your closets getting full ?

 

I have not been in the closet for years. I have not had my closets full for even more years. I hate shopping for myself in the fashion most shop. I don't have nice clothes and shoes. I wear the same sandals for the past 3 years. I have the same shirts for the same amount of time. So, I conserve when it comes to shopping for myself. I do enjoy shopping for my boyfriends but have learned it is better to give them the cash and let them go and buy themselves than for me to buy for them.

 

My beds are now full but the closets still have space. hehe

 

I think everyone chooses what to do with their money. I don't drink and spend money on booze. I don't eat at fancy restaurants. I don't travel as much as I like. I don't own my own place in Thailand. I choose to spend my money on a gaggle of laughter and fun. Not sure how long it will last. I get bored easy. But, the boredom in Pattaya is certainly not the same as the boredom in other places.

[Guest xstreamlove]

Gaythailand can you adopt me

 

I will surely finish all my school

2 terms of English school (or Thai) for my motor bike.

High school for my really nice gift.

University for my new home.

 

Quote

 

[TotallyOz]

Gaythailand can you adopt me

 

LOL Thank you! This made me laugh so much today. After spending 2 hours discussing a phone line with TTT for the 69th time, your post calmed me down. Thanks.

PS: I am a really hard worker and will even shop for a new pair of sandals for you as i'm sure the old ones might be worn out after 3 yrs of use.

 

They are worn out. They are falling apart. But, they are like old friends. No matter how uncomfortable things become, you still adore them.

 

 

 

[Guest xstreamlove]

well im glad I made your day better but you still did not anser me

 

As you can see I will make laugh daily and can even do those small things like take care of all the calls to TTT (by the way 69 is a charm).

 

Ive been waiting all my life for a chance like this! And the lotto has not worked out here.

 

look I have been studying : Up to you .

 

Well ill be waiting here for your responce and a plane ticket.

 

 

PS: You have done a great job with the site, seems to be alot more friendly then others and without many of the trouble makers and drama queens. Great job

 

Well im off to start packing

[Guest mauRICE]

As the boy is only 20, what kind of a time frame is the OP looking at? One year, two years, until the boy graduates?

[Guest noy9000]

Gaythailand can you adopt me

 

I will surely finish all my school

2 terms of English school (or Thai) for my motor bike.

High school for my really nice gift.

University for my new home.

 

I'm assuming you're Thai. (I'm certainly not asking to adopt you) But how much is reasonable by the usual Thai standard? I'm pretty sure it'll be an attractive option for the boys themselves to be 'attached' to a foreigner. They work in bar, no more. Better stability of time, income.

 

Is there anyone who had work with these 'contracts' before? It won't be fun to have someone in your apartment and dissappear with all your valuables (like documents).

[Guest Boxer]

Year one - be friends amongst many and give short time support have fun!

Year two - no rush be an affair more support talk about family school or job, help support him in what he does gain confidence all round.

Year three - even more no rush be lovers and think about/try living together longer periods keep open his room even if shared by another guy he has a safe bolt hole to go to when it gets rough.

Year four - change lifestyles for both of you, coming together west and east is a world clashing in your own home. Give him space and trust.

Year five - Enjoy life or divorce, always be prepared for anything.

[Guest allieb]

Every Thai bar boys dream. Meet a farang the older the better. He gets all his expenses paid pocket money and a lot of freedom to do as he wishes. The older the farang the more freedom he thinks he will get.

 

A very nobel guesture to take him out of a life of prostitution and give him a better life. Wrong you may take the boy out of the bar but you will never take the bar out of the boy. And I think you are kidding yourself if you think you are not in love with him otherwise you would not even think of moving in with him.

 

As others have posted the many things that can go wrong, I agree with all of them. We farang are weak and we always get into gilt and feelings syndrome. Perhaps being gay and not having childern we try to subtitute a son with a bar boy. Don't do it save the moving in thing for someone who you can admit to loving, even then your on unsafe ground.

 

My advise is to keep this young man as a friend if you want to help him then give him some money each month and encourage him to leave the bar and get a job. One poster said they can earn about 15,000 a month in the bar. So give him 10,000 and encourage him to find a job at say 5,000.

 

Then see if he drifts back to the old job of bed hopping

 

There's no fool like an old fool (I'm sure the Thais have a similar saying)

 

[Guest noy9000]

Every Thai bar boys dream. Meet a farang the older the better. He gets all his expenses paid pocket money and a lot of freedom to do as he wishes. The older the farang the more freedom he thinks he will get.

 

A very nobel guesture to take him out of a life of prostitution and give him a better life. Wrong you may take the boy out of the bar but you will never take the bar out of the boy. And I think you are kidding yourself if you think you are not in love with him otherwise you would not even think of moving in with him.

 

As others have posted the many things that can go wrong, I agree with all of them. We farang are weak and we always get into gilt and feelings syndrome. Perhaps being gay and not having childern we try to subtitute a son with a bar boy. Don't do it save the moving in thing for someone who you can admit to loving, even then your on unsafe ground.

 

My advise is to keep this young man as a friend if you want to help him then give him some money each month and encourage him to leave the bar and get a job. One poster said they can earn about 15,000 a month in the bar. So give him 10,000 and encourage him to find a job at say 5,000.

 

Then see if he drifts back to the old job of bed hopping

 

There's no fool like an old fool (I'm sure the Thais have a similar saying)

 

allieb, you're wise. really. It's my thoughts about farangs as non-breeders & bar boy's relationship, I appreciate that you're actually writing it up.

 

personally, i feel that 10,000THB per month is sufficient if you wants him to reside with you. it's not appropriate to ask him look for a job though - it takes the 'cool.ness' of being with a typical farang. rainwalker says 'value for value'.

[Guest ToyFan]

There's no fool like an old fool (I'm sure the Thais have a similar saying)

 

Last trip, as many trips before, I spent several weeks (After butterbly time.) with the same young man, Khun Ae. I was smitten but not crazy enough to marry in haste, repent in etc. so it was, as usual, a day-to-day fling thing.

One night we were sitting in 'his' bar when a farang stopped in with his, butter wouldn't melt in his mouth, boy friend, Khun Bee. The farang was working on getting a visa for B & making long-term plans to bring Bee home for good. A 'look' passed between Ae and Co-worker, Khun Dee.

When farang and Bee left, I asked Ae, "What?"

He said, very seriously, "Farang ting-tong, gow farang ting-tong yai mahk-mahk."

Dee giggled. I giggled. The other boys, Em, Oh and Pee, (Several were 'off' or we could have played Scrabble.) giggled, maybe just for the hell of it, not sure they actually overheard the conversation. So we ordered a pitcher of beer and Ae and Dee regaled me with stories about Bee's other farang(s).

 

It sounds like boy-you is basing his stipend request on what he currently earns, or would like to earn, at the bar (Sends home) and having at you; if he will be living with you, why should you pay for his room? Twice.

If you are hell bent on going through with this, knock off the 5000, just to show you're not a push-over, if nothing else, and use it to rent a (seperate) room for your self.

I can't help thinking you are not all that committed to the idea. Otherwise, why ask opinions of ting-tongs on a message board?

And if you are (Commited), you should be committed! To an institution. Yes, I know; marriage is a wonderful institution. However, I prefer mine as a movable-feast, revolving-door, here-comes-the-bride Again!, every-day's-a-honeymoon, I'm a one-man man and you're it, for the night, Queen for a day, type of thing.

 

But; whatever blows your dress up.

[Guest Geezer]

[Guest noy9000]

I don't know. Is it only me who feels that anything below 10,000THB for the boy is a bad idea? I think something like a decent 1 month's salary for the boy is good enough. He has stability & you're giving assurance that he could finish his education without having worries about rent and wondering how to please every people each night.. It's easier to deal with 1 person.

 

[Guest letmetellu]

The newer the boy is to working in the service trade, or not at all, the more you can bond with him to be fair with you, or pick the right boy your be fine, its how you treat them, if you give them all the same love and understanding some guys really need a father figure, and they know how far they can go before you blow a fuse, you will be happy with your guy or guys, try not to shout at them that is the best way to loose there respect, try to explain what you have said or done something for what reason remember they were brought up with completely the opposite understanding of family values to you and sometimes they can even teach us things about life and how to not have so many hang ups.

 

I have very few rules one is no smoking in the bedroom, they take care of their family, village and Buffalo, with there own money, no drugs and drinking only for good reasons, no stimulents to deaden a problem in there mind, apart from that I buy most of there farang type cloths, tooth brushes, toiletries, food if they are out with me, and all extras everything including education, if they are out with me for dinner or drinks we do have many Thai nights out which we love, JJ Pub or Hollywood or Xyite many others, at least twice a week some times more, even though my boys prefer to not go to farang nights out if they can help it, but sometimes I insist and they will endure it, that's even to the beach, they like me to be with them in the mornings, we do go to many beaches but they don't like lying on beaches much and not on Jomtien until I insist.They hate Sunee Plaza or Boys Town but I meet them there very seldom.

.

As for there allowance well I have always given 300 a day or 500 a day if there is something special they want to do, then an extra 700 or 1000 if we have sex, its just something I have always done, they know where they stand and I get a hint if they either need sex or extra money its great fun, yes I know you,d think they just do it for the money no I thought that because they say they are randy and you can tell I don't push sex it just happens If I'm not in the mood it just passes.

 

If I'm out of the country I send 15,000 baht a month, I give them a bank debit card or saving bank, so as I'm putting it I'm the bank I have them on the mobile with in seconds they can take it out at Udon Thani or where ever they are, at no expense or charges they leave Pattaya if I'm not here.

 

It is always best to have two boys who get on, its s crime to have one on there own I think, even if its just a friend and make the family feel so wonderful I have 2 boys one I have been with for 6 years ther other one I have been with for 10 months but had a break for a short 2 weeks in the middle as we had a misunderstanding.

 

My guys are both Alfa males which means you let them roam and don't try to hold them down, I always let them know my door is open if they want to go any where they go, I know where they are most of the time every day, I like my freedom also, they both speak good English even though one of them will not speak to farangs much he says they only want to chat you up for sex, but he was a battered child so he is quite shy, even though he was Mr Pattaya 2002/3 to which I pushed him into like a doting mother, I send them to school an education is the one thing that is worth more then gold to these guys.

 

Motor Bikes, Farms, Gold, Cars, Mini markets, and I was even building a cafe for one guy, who I'm still with but has found girl love, so don't see as much of him as id like to, but with his half Brazilian/Thai appendage you can Imagine he needs to use it daily, and even a water truck, Ive bought the lot over the years but I must say its gives you great pleasure to have this family type house hold even though I'm not now living in a house at the moment, even though with what I pay I could be its just very convenient for now.

 

One final rule never let the right hand know what the left hand is doing, I never let one boy know when the other boy has sex or even if he does, you loose respect if you do and it slowly makes them feel they are just a number I have found out observing others who do, the above work for me any way., since 1976 any way. Yes Ive had a few over the years.

 

As I say to my boys why do you choose to stay with me your both very handsome and one gets offers morning night and day, the other pretends he does not hear farangs and never makes eye contact he says, to which does wind some people up as being rude, they say its much better to have one good farang then be seen and treated like a prostitute, same really as you would treat a wife or husband very nice I thought:wub:

[Guest rainwalker]

Last December, I met a young man (FYI: he was 20 at the time, I was 58) who works at a bar and had a great time with him for a week. It was the first time in 20 years of coming to Thailand, and partaking of its many wonders that I could see spending lots of time with one lad.

 

In May, we spent more time together and I really enjoyed his company and attention for another week.

 

Naturally, I paid him well and made sure that he had a good time with me, going scuba diving, jet skiing, go-carting etc. I got full value for my time, money and interest and he told me that I am his "Number 1 Farang" and that he likes me.

 

I like him as well and neither of us are in love with each other; we just have a good time and enjoy our conversations - dictionaries in hand - and our laughter together.

 

Being in the "I'm retiring to Thailand in 6 months" mode, and wanting to continue enjoying his company and treat him well while doing it, I've paid for his university this year and broached the topic of making this a value-for-value full time thing.

 

I stress value for value. This is not love.

 

We are in the beginning of negotiating his leaving the bar, and the associated lifestyle .

 

His opening financial request was, and I quote "I want moter 10000 fater 5000 for room 5000 go school food sanook ......up to you."

 

There were no other requests like I stop seeing other boys or the many other things that are more important than money.

 

What kind of things should I ask him for other than he quit the bar and quit the sex worker industry?

 

I know that a number of folks have, or have had, a relationship with a former bar boy and I'm asking for the combined wisdom of the Board.

 

Prizes will be awarded for the best, most creative, and most bizarre suggestions.

 

The prizes will be awarded in November at The Third Annual Sawatdee Forum Crazy Hat Contest and Booze-Up to be held, as ever, during the Pattaya Gay Festival

 

 

Update...

 

He quit the bar on own three weeks before we began discussing the conrete posibility of any level of stipend for him. He said that because he was full-time at Siam University, he would not do his studies justice if he had to work every night and not get home till 3 AM.

 

We had a basic conversation about the level of compensation via email and webcam and what came out of it was that he "want moter 10000 fater 5000 for room 5000 go school food sanook ......up to you"

 

(His folks are separated)

 

I explained that I wasn't going to provide any money for his mother or father and that any funds were for him alone. What he did with those funds would be up to him.

 

The deal was struck...

 

I then came to Thailand for three weeks in July and we, as ever, had a good time, As I headquarter in Pattaya and he in Bangkok, we saw each other weekends, one in Pattaya and one in Phuket, and for 5 or so days in Bangkok.

 

I'm returning to Thailand in October for 2 months and will stay in "The Big Mango" during the week to take Thai language lessons and he and I will weekend either there or in Pattaya.

 

We'll also do a quick trip to Ubon Ratchathani (อุบลราชธานี) to visit Mama and we'll go scuba diving to Ko Samui and maybe Phuket during my time there.

 

As part of the arrangement, he's on call a maximum of 5 times a week (a combination of weekday evenings or weekend days) and the only commitment he has that trumps me is school. He is also allowed as am I outside sexual partners and, should we chose, we can have 'party sex" with folks we mutually desire.

 

I also committed to funding his PADI Open Water Scuba Certification (which he successfully completed last week end) and promised a substantial bonus after a year and his successful completion of first year at university.

 

Every arrangement of this nature is unique as are the personalities involved. For example, he doesn't seem to want clothes or expensive meals and gifts. (He hasn't - except the second day we were together in December - tried for gold, and he did that half heartedly.)

 

I like him and think he's a good guy but am very aware that I represent the possibility of big dough to him so am on the lookout for some kind of scam. I really don't think he will try but as I am of decent means, he would have to go for a huge baht score for me to be other than just disappointed.

 

I think he's smarter than that and knows that I am not an easy mark. Even more, I think he's honest and can see that my value as a patron and, dare I say, friend is more important over the long haul than a quick score

 

Mind you, I almost look forward to some kind of con just to see how well it is thought out and pitched.

[Guest catawampuscat]

I don't think rainwalker really needs any advice and has a handle on the situation.. He is jai dee and it looks like a good deal from here..

 

I had an ex-regular over last nite and I had ended things because he had grown lazy in the sack and postponed sex until he was ready and forgot I liked to get smoked too.. Last nite, he was on fire and it was like old times.. He is back on the rotation and the payroll for now... I am still grinning from last nite and smiling...

[Guest Thaiquila]

I stress value for value. This is not love.

 

Stick with this thought. Don't let him live with you. Don't complicate the situation. Have sex. Pay what you can. Go home. You'll be over this guy in a year or two tops.

[Guest mauRICE]

He quit the bar on own three weeks before we began discussing the conrete posibility of any level of stipend for him.

 

If I read this correctly, the Thai guy stopped working at the bar before he knew for certain that he was going to be put on the OP's retainer.

 

How had he intended to support himself then? How was he going to raise the not-so-modest 20,000Bt-a-month minimum budget that he had originally proposed to the OP? What if the negotiations had fallen through? Was he going to take up two after school jobs and work weekends to support himself and his family? Who was going to step in?

 

What was his Plan B?