Gays are Immoral says Chairman of Joint Chiefs of Staff

[TotallyOz]

The top U.S. military officer, Marine Gen. Peter Pace, doesn't plan to apologize for telling a newspaper that homosexuality is immoral, his senior staff told CNN on Tuesday.

Pace, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told the Chicago Tribune on Monday that he supports the "don't ask, don't tell" policy banning openly gay people from serving in the U.S. armed forces.

The general also compared homosexuality to adultery -- behavior that is prosecuted in the military, he said.

"My upbringing is such that I believe that there are certain things, certain types of conduct that are immoral," Pace told the Tribune. "I believe that military members who sleep with other military members' wives are immoral in their conduct."

Pace also told the paper, "I believe that homosexual acts between individuals are immoral, and that we should not condone immoral acts.

"So the 'don't ask, don't tell' [policy] allows an individual to serve the country ... if we know about immoral acts, regardless of committed by who, then we have a responsibility.

"I do not believe that the armed forces are well served by saying through our policies that it's OK to be immoral in any way, not just with regards to homosexual acts," the Joint Chiefs chairman said.

"So from that standpoint, saying that gays should serve openly in the military to me says that we, by policy, would be condoning what I believe is immoral activity," he added.

Advocacy group: Pace should apologize

The Servicemembers Legal Defense Network, a nonprofit group that represents military personnel affected by the "don't ask, don't tell" policy, demanded Tuesday that Pace apologize for his remarks.

"Gen. Pace's comments are outrageous, insensitive and disrespectful to the 65,000 lesbian and gay troops now serving in our armed forces," said C. Dixon Osburn, the group's executive director. "Our men and women in uniform make tremendous sacrifices for our country, and deserve Gen. Pace's praise, not his condemnation."

The statement added, "It is inappropriate for the chairman to condemn those who serve our country because of his own personal bias. He should immediately apologize for his remarks."

Asked if Pace would apologize, his senior staff members said the general stands by his statements as an expression of his personal opinion, and he has no intention of apologizing.

President Clinton signed the "don't ask, don't tell" policy into law in 1994. The military has supported the policy, citing its belief that homosexuality is detrimental to good order and discipline in the armed forces.

CNN's Barbara Starr contributed to this report.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/03/13/gays.military/index.html

[Guest StuCotts]

Every day gays are hounded out of the military, not for being caught at anything but for just being who they are.

Anybody who has spent any time in the military can confirm that the moral tenor of hetero life on military bases rivals that of an alley full of stray cats. People are constantly being caught in fornication and adultery, both condemned by the UCMJ, yet almost none of them suffer any consequences. Has anybody asked the general why the discrepancy?

[Guest Riptide]

>Every day gays are hounded out of the military, not for being

>caught at anything but for just being who they are.

>

And what makes this even more deplorable is the fact that many of these honorable and brave men and women have critical and urgently needed language skills in Arabic which the army even admits is an area of intelligence that they fall short in. If you can't read the intel, how can you possibly plan your next move accordingly, and with the best result possible?

Somebody please shoot me........ :+

[Guest PWIT]

>And what makes this even more deplorable is the fact that many

>of these honorable and brave men and women have critical and

>urgently needed language skills in Arabic which the army even

>admits is an area of intelligence that they fall short in. If

>you can't read the intel, how can you possibly plan your next

>move accordingly, and with the best result possible?

>

Turns out there were only 9 who were proficient in Arabic. Still, that is 9 in an area where the need is great.

I personally think the CJCS comment thing is a good thing - here me out before popping a vein everyone:

1) it put the topic on the forefront, changes in DC only happen on hot topics

2) the fact that he is already having to recant shows he is out of the mainstream thinking (even minority lead of senate armed services has condemned the remarks )

3) bet you never hear a comment like that again from a CJCS

4) even if they don't change the DADT policy, I bet you will start seeing a reduction in numbers of people pushed out - any such actions now are going to draw the attn of media, executive branch, and congress

Now is the time to change and these remarks may be the catalyst to make it happen.

[AdamSmith]

It's always seemed to me that the great Clinton compromise was actually the great Clinton legal landmine laid in order eventually to explode in our favor.

To wit: If it is acknowledged that the only reason gays can't serve is that the knowledge of their orientation by straight servicepeople will mess things up, then de facto the fault lies with straight servicepeople. It becomes a clear case of prejudice and civil rights, just like racial integration of the military.

Courts so far have not upheld that view. But neither have any of the challenges yet been decided on those grounds. So the way still stands clear.

[TotallyOz]

>It's always seemed to me that the great Clinton compromise

>was actually the great Clinton legal landmine laid in order

>eventually to explode in our favor.

I agree. But, I am still disappointed that he did not do more. He was the one that had the chance to change things even more and did not. I still adore him and would vote for him again tomorrow but he did not do as much for our cause as he should have. IMHO

In the current pack of those running, who are actually viable candidates, are there any you think will actually make a difference to us?

[Guest Riptide]

>Turns out there were only 9 who were proficient in Arabic.

Maybe that's true. But when you look at that number of 9 and apply it to the area of Arabic speaking, reading and translating gay men and women, the number nine becomes a much more looming number for me. I mean, how many gay men or women do you know who speak Arabic? How many people in general do you know who speaks Arabic?

I guess what I'm trying to say is that for such a small minority of people within the ranks of the military, to be so expertise in a very much needed and specialized area, nine gay men or lesbians seems to be a pretty impressive number.

[Guest Riptide]

>In the current pack of those running, who are actually viable

>candidates, are there any you think will actually make a

>difference to us?

No. It will always be, as has always been, the grass roots organizations and urban gay and lesbian political organizations, coupled with new and upcoming generations of less bigoted people who have always lead the movement of change and will be those tireless souls who will continue to make the differences we demand. It's been a long road to date and that road has many, many more miles to it.

No politician is going to commit suicide to further the cause of fairness and equality in our world.

[TotallyOz]

>No. It will always be, as has always been, the grass roots

>organizations and urban gay and lesbian political

>organizations, coupled with new and upcoming generations of

>less bigoted people who have always lead the movement of

>change and will be those tireless souls who will continue to

>make the differences we demand. It's been a long road to date

>and that road has many, many more miles to it.

>

>No politician is going to commit suicide to further the cause

>of fairness and equality in our world.

Unfortunately, I agree with you. Sad but true. I have never really understood why those in past generations who were discriminated against don't stand with us. Perhaps I am just stupid not to see the bigger picture but to me, all those who are left behind in laws and equality today and in times past should stand together.

http://www.soulforce.org/index.php

Take a look at the link above. Those are the tireless souls you refer to.

[Guest StuCotts]

That's the name of an article in the March issue of The Atlantic, about some rich, smart, involved gays who seem to be finding their way toward making politics work for them and us. I find reason for hope in it.

www.theatlantic.com

Click on Back Issues in the left-hand column, then on March 2007, then look for the title of the article.