Need some advice regarding a friend of Christina

[Guest BewareofNick]

I don't normally ask for advice on online forums, but most of you I have "known" for a while and some of you have had a great deal more experience with a lot of situations than I have, so here I am asking.

I have a 22 yo son that was addicted to meth in 2004. I was very naive about it at the time. Yes, he was acting strangely but i didn't know what to attribute it to. He eventually came to me and admitted he had a problem. We got him some help and he was clean for about a year.

Recently, he began acting strangely on occasion, and it reminded me of his beahvior during his addiction days, so I decide to do a little investigating. A search of his room revealed several cans of butane, lighers and three pipes, one of which was a water pipe. I also keylogged his computer and discovered that as far back as October of last year, he was "purchasing" tina. After obtaining passwords to various sites, I discovered that he was not purchasing the tina with money but rather with sex. He has been exchaning sex for tina with several older men (my age and older). Some of these men are HIV+ and after contacting them under assumed screennames on these hookup sites (manhunt and adam4adam among them) I discovered most of these men have no qualms about having bareback sex. Unfortuantely, it appears that my son shares that with them. On one site, he was also advertising as a houseboy in exchange for a room and "services around the house".

I confronted him about everything and he did not want to admit at first, but he did finally reluctantly. He says that he is not addicted like he was in 04 and that he is just a casual user that can take it or leave it. I find that to be utter bullshit. I also expressed my concern over the bb sex but he didn't have much to say about that. To top it off, he has a very sweet younger bf, 18, that has no idea about my son's infidelity or the danger he is putting himself in. My son is also on probation for a traffic violation and I am tempted to call his probation officer and have him drug tested, but I am not sure if I should do that yet.

Is there any hope of getting through to him? What would you advise?

[marcanthony]

BON: sorry to hear about your sons problems. They are obviously quite complex and difficult problems.

No one can really tell you what to do... that's really only something you can decide.

But there are two facts that you need to consider as you decide what to do.

1) Drug addiction is very very difficult to defeat

2) If you are going to defeat it, the vast majority are in residential treatment facilities.

Good luck.

[seaboy4hire]

BON also with any addiction be it smoking or using meth the addict must one want to recover and also hit rock bottom before realizing what is going on. Also check out http://www.ugm.org/ProgramsRecovery.asp see if there is similar program in your area. The folk that run this program in Seattle have a pretty good success rate. I hope that things get better for you and your son.

Hugs,

Greg

[Guest mbarz]

BoN, I too am sorry to read this, addictions are very hard to deal with, but I would be more concerned with his sexual behavior. He needs to be tested for HIV, if there is the remote possibility that he could have been exposed. That way, if he has been infected, he can be monitored and/or treated early.

Also, there is no such thing as being a casual user of meth. He may think that and want to believe it, but he is only fooling himself. Don't let him fool you too. Get him to a counselor, he needs it for both the drug problem and the self destructive sexual behavior.

Good luck to you and him. It won't be easy, but you can do it. You're a great guy BoN, I'm sure you're a very good father, get him the help he needs.

mbarz

[TampaYankee]

These situations are always tough. Tougher even because your son as an adult can act independently in the eyes of the law.

He has to recognize the extent of his problem and he has to want to get past it. It doesn't sound like he is there yet. All the tougher because he is engaging in very high risk behavior at the same time.

The solution lies with him. This is difficult, as a father, to accept. Your problem is to maintain open communication with him without alienating him or enabling him. It is a very dfficult line to walk as a parent.

On top of that add the issue that the boyfriend it also being put at risk, apparently unknowingly.

It may be impossible to juggle all of these conditions and issues simultaneously. At the least it will be very difficult.

[BenjaminNicholas]

My brother is an addict. It's not something i'm particularily proud of sharing, but it's a problem the whole family has been dealing with for some time now. His problems revolve around meth and other harder drugs.

I've sent him to 6 rehab clinics. All the best i could find and everytime he turned around and went back to the drugs. It emotionally killed me. It still does. For someone who's as bright as he is and as well educated, it doesn't compute with me how he could throw away so much of his life for something as inane as drugs.

My advice: You can't help him until he's ready to accept your help. Whether it's hitting rock bottom or worse, a true addict will stop at nothing to get his fix. They aren't the person you once knew... It's a horrible truth. The feeling of not knowing who my own brother is anymore is absolutely heartbreaking.

While we haven't really ever seen eye-to-eye on anything online, i can relate wholeheartedly to what you're going through right now. I'm so sorry for what you must be feeling BON. I wish i could offer something more in terms of hope, but in this case i think it's best to remain a realist. He's got a problem. Only he can truly fix it.

Please email me privately if you'd like to talk about things. You have my support in this 110%.

BN

[Guest Conway]

Surround him with people who love him. Make sure everyone of them is prepared to tell him how much he means to them and how *they* can see differences in his life caused by the drugs even if he cannot.

Then, be prepared to provide him with the help that he needs in the form of a residential treatment center.

I've never been through what you are currently experiencing. I cannot imagine the pain that you feel. You have my support also.

[Guest Stephan]

BoN,

I am sorry for your troubles. I don’t think many of us out here can’t relate a story or two about drug abuse. I had a lover that was addicted and it broke my heart. Sitting and watching someone you love and realizing there is nothing you can do is one of the worst feelings in the world. It is something that you learn many lessons from and you learn from your mistakes. The one thing you need to realize is that it takes their desire for them to stop. Your hopes and dreams for them are simply that. You cannot control what they do with them.

Be supportive when needed. Be strong and don’t let them ever think you approve of their choice while at the same time, showing them you care for them. Love them unconditionally and at the same time never give them a reason to think you are OK with what they are doing.

I have been down that road before and it is not easy. I hope and pray that your journey will be short and end in a good result.

Best regards,

Stef

http://www.steflacoste.com

+33 870 449 763 ~ France

+1 310 437 9539 ~ Usa

[TownsendPLocke]

Dearest BoN,

BN above wrote"I've sent him to 6 rehab clinics."and therin lies one of the gist of "trying to help"a loved one"recover"from a harmful addiction.We interced upon the addicts behalf,out of a snce of love and loyalty-and sometimes out of ego.

Often it is way too early in an addicts career of abuse.Of course we as lovers/friend/relatives/spouses want to do what is best for our friend/loved one.But,unfortumately,what we think is best is actually our own sense of correctness,or of our need to be the saviour in our loved ones life.

As BN and others who have posted-this all ends horribly wrong and IMO teaches the addict some new tricks to use against those who are only trying to help.

As painfull as it is,and it is often heartbreaking,the only way an addict will clean up his act is when h himself takes the lead and puts himself into a treatment program or sets upon a road to recovery.

As a recovering drunk I have been around the Maypole so many times with boys who had learned the way to my wallet/home was with a sad story of a fall from grace and the hope(sincere or not)that someone(like me)could fix them.It has taken me 20 years but I now firmly belive that I cannot fix anybody-including myself!This is a voyager that they must do on their own-not alone,as there are meeting of like souls every night in every city of the US that are there to help.I am of course referiring to AA/NA/SA/OEA/SLAA and all of the other self help groups.

Some scoff at these groups,but it is my experience that if an addict is unwilling to try any form of recovery than his chances for a good and healthy recovery are doomed from the start.And,as selfish as it might seem.when I am faced with such objections I just turn and go on my way-with the proviso to the person seeking help and or sympathy that I am there for them when they are ready to stop.

This is very,very hard to do,Addicts and drunks can be as manipulative and as cunning as the substances which they abuse.

So BON what should you do?Well stop trying to save your son and ,as hard as it might be,detach with love.Your support and love are well known to him,as are the buttons he know how to push.Do not try to neggotiate with him,he is a grown man-he must now grow up.

Wen hes is truly ready to stop,he will stop.Hopefully that will be soon.

There is a huge industry of recovery right now.And they all try to make it seem that they can do somethig for the addict that they cannot do on their own,They cannot.

You have my good wishes on this,as does your son.

[Guest mbarz]

I'm not going to completely disagree with your advice, but I think it is unfair and unrealistic to tell a parent to just give up on their child and stand back and watch them destroy themselves.

My brother too is an addict and a drunk, he was hell for many years, but I never gave up on him and I never quit trying to get him help. Sure it was maddening, he fucked up everything and cost me a ton of money, but I'd do it all again if I had to because I love him.

Our parents sucked, they were to busy and into each other to give a fuck. I was all he had. I wasn't going to turn my back on him or give up trying. My friends gave me pretty much the same advice you just gave BoN, but it's not that easy when it's your child or someone you love.

My efforts did pay off. My brother has been clean and sober for over five years and finished college two years ago. If he relapsed I'd be there for him again.

I'm sorry, but I don't think turning your back on someone you love, when they are destroying themselves, is helping anyone. I think a more proactive approach is better.

mbarz

[BenjaminNicholas]

I never advised anyone to just 'give up' on someone battling addictions.

I sure didn't.

I simply got realistic about what my brother needed to do to truly deal with the addiction: He had to have the WANT and the NEED to get better. Without that, it wouldn't have mattered how great the rehab program was or how much he was hurting the family, as he would have simply kept giving into the drugs and lifestyle.

Don't mistake my blunt honesty for not caring about my brother's situation. He was coddled for a good long time due to most of us being in denial about how deep he had gotten himself into drugs. There's a time to know when 'standing by' someone will get them through things and there's a time to know when to stand back becuase you're doing more harm than good.

I had to take a step back. My love was always there.

BN

[TownsendPLocke]

BN wrote"I never advised anyone to just 'give up' on someone battling addictions.

I sure didn't. "

Nor did anyone acuse you of this.

[TownsendPLocke]

>I'm not going to completely disagree with your advice, but I

>think it is unfair and unrealistic to tell a parent to just

>give up on their child and stand back and watch them destroy

>themselves.

>

>My brother too is an addict and a drunk, he was hell for many

>years, but I never gave up on him and I never quit trying to

>get him help. Sure it was maddening, he fucked up everything

>and cost me a ton of money, but I'd do it all again if I had

>to because I love him.

>

>Our parents sucked, they were to busy and into each other to

>give a fuck. I was all he had. I wasn't going to turn my back

>on him or give up trying. My friends gave me pretty much the

>same advice you just gave BoN, but it's not that easy when

>it's your child or someone you love.

>

>My efforts did pay off. My brother has been clean and sober

>for over five years and finished college two years ago. If he

>relapsed I'd be there for him again.

>

>I'm sorry, but I don't think turning your back on someone you

>love, when they are destroying themselves, is helping anyone.

>I think a more proactive approach is better.

>

>mbarz

Unfortunately the results of this is often,though not always,that the disease of addiction then claims more lives than just that of the addict.

Mbarz-I am sure your intentions are noble,and your brother is blessed to have such a good brother(mine would be checking my wallet as I lay passed out in the gutter-which happned a few times!)but learning to detach with love is very difficult for the most hardened of us-let alone a loving person,

I have seen to many addicts coddled/supported and kept from realizing their own recovery not to advised a very strong dose of tough love here.

The whole dynamic changes once an addiction is in the room.

Speed is a real bitch as speedfreaks are soooooo good at lying,coniving and manipulating.

I am so bored of the speedfreaks in the gay community. PNP is all over craigslist/manhunt. And if you do not want to PNP welllll then you just won't get laid it sometimes seems.

I think smoking is the hardest addiction to give up-followed by speed.But it can be done.

[Guest mbarz]

I was responding to TownsendPLocke Benjamin...not you. This is a different board and I thought it best not to respond to your post and besides, I thought what you said about your brother was very kind. It sounded like you tried to help him. Did he ever get help?

[Guest mbarz]

I understand what your saying. I was accused of coddling my brother, enabling him and a million other things, but at the same time I never let up on him either.

I was persistent, forceful and downright hateful toward him at times, but I felt I had to be, there was no one else to do it. There were times he hated me, but I couldn't care. I had to do something. I just could not give up.

He is ten years younger than me, almost to the day, our parents were never there for us. I practically raised him by myself, so there was no way I was going to stand by and let him fuck up his life because of drugs.

I hate to see anyone fuck up their life because of drugs, but I hate it more when no one wants to help them.

mbarz

[Lucky]

So many sad situations with loved ones. Best wishes to you, BofN.

[AdamSmith]

People have offered heartfelt advice on the difficulty and pain of trying to help someone who is not yet ready to seek or accept help. But interventions before that point can also work. Not always, but often enough to make it worth your considering, I think.

There is a lot information about this on the web; here's just one starting point:

http://www.drugfree.org/Intervention/HelpingOthers/

I was involved in one case where a structured family intervention, prepared and led by a professional substance abuse counseler, did succeed in reaching a person who was deeply into alcoholism and drug addiction, and giving him the first handhold to start the long climb back.

Sincere best wishes, BoN.

[BenjaminNicholas]

Ah. Got it Mbarz. I appreciate the clarification.

My brother is currently self-medicating. He's moved in with another part of my family, as the group of us in this part of the country weren't doing him as much good as we thought. As others mentioned, we played into his addiction and probably did more harm than overall good.

While i refuse to enable him anymore, i think about him everyday. I hope he's trying to restart his life.

BN

[Guest StevenDraker]

Hi BoN,

Sorry to hear about your issues.

I often see people that use Tina on the circuit parties, without really knowing the problems "from inside".

IT IS one of the most addictive and dangerous drugs today.

Check out this resource http://www.tweaker.org

Steven Draker ~

website www.hotsexystud.com/uk

reviews http://www.daddysreviews.com/review.php?wh...draker_brussels

[KYTOP]

BON, I truly wish I had some advice to give you, but I don't. I have 2 children about the same age as yours and feel very deeply for them as you do your son. I'm had many professionals tell me that an addict must hit the complete bottom before they can move to over come it. I can't imagine seeing my children go thru that and not being able to help. By nature we want to protect them. My thoughts are with you and your son.

[Guest BewareofNick]

Wow.

I just wanted to say THANK YOU to everyone who has responded, especially those of you with whom I haven't seen eye to eye in the past.

So far, there have been no further incidents and he has not gotten back on Manhunt. Of course, I know this doesn't mean its over but I am being vigilant and have taken some of the steps that have been recommended,

I also want to thank those of you who contacted me by email, especially one of you (you know who you are).

And for Rico: the same odds as a straight man having a straight son.

[Guest jwsmilin]

BON

Whew....good news. FYI you might consider as a prevention, following up

with a qualified hypno therapist. I wrote you an e mail about this, and I

know from personal experience that a person's value systems can be

altered permanently by a skilled hypnotist with proper training. You have my

e mail and I can put you in touch with a hypno therapist who could advise you

on how to select such a person in your locale. JW

[Guest duplicity818]

GET BETWEEN YOUR SON AND DRUGS (SPECIFICALLY TINA) ANY WAY YOU CAN. DO WHATEVER IT TAKES.

It is not enough to stand by and wait for him to "hit bottom". Bottom for some unfortunately is a casket. Don't fuck around with meth, it is not a "casual" or "social" drug. Get him tested for HIV immediately.

If he is doing meth and soliciting himself for sex to facilitate meth, there is a bigger underlying problem. 12 step programs work for some, therapy for others, he may need both. If he came to you and said he had a problem once then he DOES recognise the problem and most likely will accept help. It's out there. gay and lesbian centers frequently offer support groups. DO SOMETHING. ACT NOW.

Meth is unlike any other drug that I know of or have had first hand experience with in that it takes you places that you would NEVER go with your sanity intact.

From what you have imparted about your son and his behaviour, he doesn't have a "drug problem", he has survival issues.

Godspeed.

[Guest BewareofNick]

Well, a lot has happened in the past year, but I am happy to say that my son has now been Tina free for 3 months.

My original posting was just before his 23rd birthday and there were some things that went on that weekend that I did not find out about until later. We went to dinner at Emeril's and then to a play that night. I then dropped him off at his Mom's house for the weekend where he spent Saturday and Sunday with her and his bf. Except.....an hour after i dropped him off he told his mother that he was going out with friends. He took a cab to his meth daddy's house. When he got there, the guy was ill. He had apparently purchased some bad drugs and told my son that he could not stay becuase he was going to sleep as he had to work in the morning. This left my son walking 10 miles back to his mother's place (he obviously wouldn't call me!). He stopped seeing this guy but the meth use continued. My son was working but his escapades caused him to lose his job due to tardiness and absences.

His next meth daddy was a major distributor who got busted by the Atlanta MBI and then subsequently released due to police error in the arrest. Shortly after that, a friend of his died of liver failure...brought on by crystal meth use.

Finally, my son and his best friend started using together with another meth daddy, that is until his best friend got pulled over and they found meth in the car. This was about 3 months ago. His friend is currently awaiting trial and is looking at some jail time. I foud out where this meth daddy worked and I suggested they give him a drug test. I also gave the guy's name adress and phone number to the DA and the defense attorney anonymously.

It was shortly after that that my son stopped going out. He started staying home and on his 24th birthday told me that he had decided to make some real changes in his life. He said that when me, his mother and that same friend went to dinner at Ruth's Chris Steak House.

I have still been monitoring here and there and I have found nothing. He recently started a new job making $8 plus commission. The change in attitude and demeanor has been nothing short of amazing. He 's always ready to go to work early and is never late. He's now fully participating in family life and is being a great uncle to my 2 1/2 and one year old grandkids.

It's been a struggle, but I belive it is finally paying off.

[Guest Conway]

Congratulations on the great turn around in your son's life. Both for you and for him.