New Members coming soon

[vinapu]

13 hours ago, PeterRS said:

For years the Thai government and the elites who keep it in power have been doing their best to get rid of the international publicity that labelled Thailand the sex capital of Asia. I cannot see this changing.

and it can't be condemned, I think their concern was not as much an association with sex  , rather   with underage sex and it looks that did good job trying to eradicate it.

And it's not easy job to change perceptions

Even those days mentioning being in Thailand alone may induce question mark on some interlocutor's faces

[forrestreid]

Hi Michael.

 

Will this include a merging of profiles as well?

The reason I ask is because although I have more or less the same name on both sites, the capitalisation (and password) are slightly different on both.

So an attempts to do it automatically probably would not work. To honest I don’t really mind, I have only 20 or so posts on Boytoy and so would be happy to “abandon” my Boytoy profile in any event. However I’d like to be able to see my previous posts there.

On that point, will the historic posts on Boytoy (a thread from 18 months ago, say) will be viewable as one of historic threads on Gayguides?

 

Forrest

 

[PeterRS]

7 hours ago, vinapu said:

and it can't be condemned, I think their concern was not as much an association with sex  , rather   with underage sex and it looks that did good job trying to eradicate it.

And it's not easy job to change perceptions

Even those days mentioning being in Thailand alone may induce question mark on some interlocutor's faces

I can assure you the concern is no longer underage sex. The elites loathe the idea that the country is still called the sex capital of Asia and they want rid of it. This is not new. I believe it was started by the first Thaksin regime 20 years ago with the Social Order campaigns. Poll after poll found these were very popular in both the cities and the countryside. As you suggest, what rich Thai guy wants quizzical looks when he is shopping in Paris or New York? The irony is that behind closed doors the Thais are as randy as everyone everywhere and have opportunities for sexual adventures that are probably more adventurous than those available for foreigners.. They just object very strongly to the label.

[TotallyOz]

On 1/9/2021 at 11:23 AM, PeterRS said:

Reading more posts, I note one poster querying the disappearance of the sections on Europe, Central and South America. I wonder why since this was to be a key factor in the merger.

But the first post I read from I presume the owner/moderator states "the site is slow at times". I look further down and see a post "This small horny community ..." Yet more posts vigorously lament the taking down of the porn threads. One suggests that the boytoy site will merely become one for those interested in overseas travel. I had no idea boytoy was a small site.

What all this preamble leads up to is this. As I read it (maybe incorrectly), there are two sites with dwindling memberships joining forces. One is based in the USA (I think). I expect many of its posters do vacation in the sex districts in Central and South America. Given the much higher cost of travelling to Asia, how many will actually even consider making the trip, I wonder? They may read the forums here but will they fill the gap in the dwindling gay western tourism numbers? Something tells me the answer is no.

Then once the sites are merged, if that happens in the near future, all the new readers will be able to see are the doom and gloom threads here about the dwindling sex scene in Thailand (sorry, I know this post will not help). And all the closures. And the Chinese taking over. Is that going to be much incentive to travel here or even read about Thailand? I don't really want answers to my questions. I merely want to raise them, possibly for discussion. Please shoot me down.

The disappearance is only for those not logged in and active. They all contain XXX images and something I don't want visible to search engines or the public.

On 1/9/2021 at 12:01 PM, z909 said:

Thank you Peter RS.

0  A discussion on the gay scene probably belongs on a different thread, even if the comments are mostly correct.

1  I do participate on Boy Toy, but rarely.  You are correct about posts that are risky ref lese majeste.

2  A "Far Far Away" title is insulting for people who consider Asia or Europe as home.   Some people really do live outside North America.   

3  My only reason for visiting Boy Toy was to browse the Europe section for ideas and sometimes the Latin America section.   If they are gone, so is my interest.   Excuse my prejudices, but I have little interest in Africa, due to legislation that's often homophobic.

Any suggestion that we might use the search function for Europe wouldn't solve the problem.   If there's a thread on Kiev, I discover it because it's in the Europe section.  I don't  search for every country and city in Europe.

Incidentally, if the software remains as it was last year, it's impossible to seach for Hua Hin, as we need 4 letters in search words.

4 A merged forum probably needs separate sections for each continent, with it made very easy to view all new content in sub-sections and equally importantly, exclude stuff and continents we have zero interest in.     I hope the software can do that, but I haven't noticed  such functionality.

5 Ultimately Michael will do as he pleases, which is how it should be.  I hope this forum remains welcoming, since we are down to 3 Thai forums and not all those are particularly active.  For several years, Boy Toy has been the only forum I know of covering the European scene.  There was another, but it closed long ago.

1. comments regarding that will not be allowed.

2. America is Far Far Away for me and I'm not insulted.

3. Not gone. Incidentally 3 letters may not be searchable via board search features. Not me, the company that makes the board. 

4. It can.

5. Thanks.

On 1/9/2021 at 12:30 PM, PeterRS said:

Totally agree, but I am sure Michael has considered this. For readers of this chat room it will be a great shame if Thailand and other Asian countries are covered only in one forum rather than a series of separate sub forums.

As the Board owner, Michael clearly must do as he pleases. I only highlight this point for two reasons. I am staggered that there is only one forum for the whole of Europe. Do you mean only one forum in English? Surely there will be forums in each country in their own languages. That's true in Asia.

The second is what I suppose my long thread was all about in the first place. Given the reduction in the number of forums and the overall number of posters, in addition to the number of other sites now on the internet with information for gay men about many countries and the increasing prevalence of the apps, for how long will there be a place for chat rooms like this? As with the gay scene in general in Thailand, might its days be numbered?

There will be a place for a long time as I am not going anywhere. (well, one day to the grave, but until then, the site is here)

On 1/9/2021 at 1:39 PM, z909 said:

So I very much hope that Michael keeps a European section.

The side effects will be a reduction of new members discovering that section to near zero and it might be a deterrent if they have to post 10 times in other forums to he allowed in.   There might be advantages, such as increased freedom on content ? 

We will.

Yes, advantages and disadvantages.

On 1/10/2021 at 11:05 AM, vinapu said:

I always was of opinion that all I need is  one bar and one boy from that bar so definitely doom and gloom will not discourage me from going to Thailand  but Thai government with excessive and prolonged restrictions may do that job specially if other countries in the region will open faster.

Me too.

On 1/10/2021 at 1:44 PM, williewillie said:

I am fortunate to enjoy young Asian guys in their 20’s to early 30’s.  I also enjoy Latinos and have decided to visit

Brazil and some Spanish speaking countries as soon as feasible. I’m fortunate that facial hair doesn’t bother me in the slightest and 

like muscular gays way more than slim twinks.  My main aversion is to feminine lady boys..hairy backs and hairy asses  another aversion.

I’ve viewed boytoys more often than gay Thailand/gayguides and love variety.  There is a gay world beyond hairless

Asian teenage boys.  Kudos to Michael for encompassing the worldwide gay scene.

I’m fully aware I’m in a small minority on this forum.  

Thanks

23 hours ago, PeterRS said:

Second there is a lot of incorrect information. These are some. In Chiang Mai only one bar is mentioned other than the gogo bars and the two saunas. This is Yokka Dok. But that bar closed between 3 and 5 years ago. No mention of the other bars which have relocated to Charoen Prathet Soi 6. In Phuket for hotels it highlights the Royal Thai Yacht Club Hotel on Nai Harn Beach. That hotel has not been known by that name for at least ten years. It became a Mandarin Oriental before changing again. It is now known as the Nai Harn Resort Hotel. In Pattaya it suggests spending afternoons at the gay beach where at around 4:00pm the boys will come out to frolic and play volleyball etc. I don't know how long ago it was since the beach stopped being a magnet for a clutch of cute young Thai guys in the late afternoons. It also suggests a Sunee Plaza that is more like the thriving area it was some years ago than one now in its death throes.

As for Bangkok, under the Bars section the first is Maggie Choo's. I wonder why. This is not a gay bar. It is gay on Sundays but if gay visitors went on a Friday evening they would be sorely disappointed. Then in Soi 4 it lists Telephone Bar but Balcony is nowhere to be found. DJ Station is listed as a bar.   Maggie Choo's is also listed a s a Club!! Only one sauna is listed - Babylon. There are 9 centrally located massage spas but no V Club 7 (part of Chakran sauna) and quite a few others.

I can remember the days when there were several monthly gay publications available at many of the gay venues. One complaint was that their listings and maps were always incorrect for one or more reason. I cannot imagine how anyone can compile and keep up to date any gay listings. But if there are going to be listings, surely they have to be reasonably up to date and not years out of date. My view is that this task has to be delegated to one person who perhaps has to be paid to do all the regular checking.

Third concerns the list of cities. Most will be of interest to those travelling to Europe and the Americas (although the inclusion of Moscow in a gay guide may be questionable). In Asia, apart from the Thai cities I have mentioned, only Hong Kong is listed. That has no information whatsoever about any gay establishments. It merely mentions two gay beaches, without adding that it requires an hour and a half at least to get to the main one as it is located far from anywhere on Lantau Island. For dining it includes only Lan Kwai Fong which is now one of the most expensive dining options in the city. Nearby  less expensive SoHo has been more popular for about 20 years. What about all the bars and saunas? Then why is there a listing for Melbourne but not the gayer and much more visited Sydney?

If any Gay Guide is to be accepted as a serious guide to Asia, surely it must also include at least Tokyo, Osaka, Seoul, Taipei and Singapore, with perhaps one section on the entirety of mainland China. As it stands, there are at least a couple of other gay Asia destination guides on the internet that have a great deal more information and up to date information.

Sorry, I know this is not going to be a popular post!

I know. Lots of articles were cleaned up years ago but the ones in Thailand change constantly and those need to change. It will be done.

Bar sections are there based on where I go.   I mike Maggie Choo's and go there for the gay night. All of those sections can be totally added to by owners of the bars, clubs, saunas, etc. They add their own listing. This was done to keep the information accurate. However, nothing is sure fire. For example, if you own Telephone, you can add that listing to the site and with all the information. Totally free. No cost. However, when I do it, it takes time. For example, the gay Bangkok area took weeks.

Agree other cities need to be included and will. You see all those cities listed?  Every one of them I wrote and it takes time. Other cities coming for sure.

22 hours ago, z909 said:

When discussing how to succeed with a website or other enterprise, it's better to offer accurate and well thought out views than try to be popular.

Looking elsewhere, I can't think of one other website that's risen to the challenge of providing a comprehensive and continually updated gay guide (edited guide, not forum).   Sites I found useful 5-10 years ago are rarely of any use now.   Sites like Nighttours used to be very helpful, along with several other sites covering Europe and Asia.

So for the Guide aspect of this site to be useful and popular, it's going to need a continual and relentless effort to maintain accuracy and incorporate updates.  A big challenge.  

I hope this site breaks the mould, but there's some way to go.

Yes, and thus why we used Word Press Listing Software so owners can add their listings. If they close, I can easily remove.

17 hours ago, PeterRS said:

Perhaps I can make a positive suggestion to counter the negative ones made earlier. Rather than each city/destination having separate sub links for Gay Bars, Gay Massage, Gay Clubs, Gay Hotels, Gay Restaurants and Gay Saunas, could not the main establishments be incorporated into the text of the city descriptions? In Bangkok I suspect most visitors would be happy enough to learn about Telephone and Soi 4; Arena, Prince and Senso; DJ Station; a handful of gay friendly hotels and restaurants at different price ranges; and Babylon, Chakran and Sauna Mania (with caveats about Chakran being more Asian for Asian and Sauna Mania's price discrimination). It would at least give readers places to start as they explore gay Bangkok. 

That would obviously be less comprehensive but would avoid the need for constant updating. Special events like Maggie Choo's Sunday gay days could also be incorporated. I also think it would be useful to have a small section about genuine gay guides for each city. Over on the sawatdee site Moses advertises his Siam Roads guides located in many Asian cities. Judging from the comments of those who have hired the guides, these good looking young guys provide an excellent service in showing visitors their cities and nightlife.

Nope, can't happen. The listings below is a Word Press Addon that is EASY to operate and add and fine information. To put anything in the articles requires constant change.

16 hours ago, z909 said:

I also wish my thoughts on the challenges of producing and maintaining a Global Gay Guide could be expressed in a slightly more positive tone.  

Particularly when recognising I'm merely sat on the sideline commenting, whilst Michael has the ambition to start and produce something.

Thanks. I don't mind the tone. I appreciate any feedback at all.

8 hours ago, forrestreid said:

Hi Michael.

 

Will this include a merging of profiles as well?

The reason I ask is because although I have more or less the same name on both sites, the capitalisation (and password) are slightly different on both.

So an attempts to do it automatically probably would not work. To honest I don’t really mind, I have only 20 or so posts on Boytoy and so would be happy to “abandon” my Boytoy profile in any event. However I’d like to be able to see my previous posts there.

On that point, will the historic posts on Boytoy (a thread from 18 months ago, say) will be viewable as one of historic threads on Gayguides?

 

Forrest

 

Yes, for those that have the same ones on both sites. More to come.

[TotallyOz]

On 1/10/2021 at 2:16 PM, PeterRS said:

Second there is a lot of incorrect information. These are some. In Chiang Mai only one bar is mentioned other than the gogo bars and the two saunas. This is Yokka Dok. But that bar closed between 3 and 5 years ago. No mention of the other bars which have relocated to Charoen Prathet Soi 6.

One down. Check Chiang Mai and see if it is better. Years ago, I had a poster to help me edit all the cities with good up to date info. But, that has been a long time ago and he is no longer posting. However, he was always full of great and up to date info. I am not as good as I don't travel as much except around BKK.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Michael said:

Years ago, I had a poster to help me edit all the cities with good up to date info. But, that has been a long time ago and he is no longer posting.

Trying to do  a global gay guide on your own is very ambitious, particularly if you don't travel to some of the places.  Very ambitious to impossible.

Some people will update information, if it's easy to do so.

I'm the one who corrected some of the gay bar listings on Google maps in Pattaya, so Cupidol is now on the correct street etc.  Plus various other updates.  However, I quickly lost interest when Google failed to make further corrections, despite GPS tagged photo evidence off my Google Android operating system.   What further proof do they need?

If you make it easy for selected people to contribute and have troll filters or check the input for plausibility, the results might just be good.  

Obviously post covid, when we can travel and see what's open.

[reader]

 

I can’t quite envision what the revamped site will look like but I’m confident that Michael’s experience will yield a satisfying outcome.

Whatever it's called (guide, advisor, directory), the one feature that attracts the most activity on any gay website is trip and venue reports. Everything else is a distant second. I don’t think there’s any disagreement on that count.

Just looking over the past 10 months since the onset of Covid19, Michael’s “walk around” series that encompass news about clubs, bars, massage shops and his personal experiences have been the true lifeblood of the forum.

We’ve also been fortunate to have z909’s recent trip reports and the periodic venue reports from members on the ground in Bangkok (Anddy’s posts come to mind). I don’t closely follow what’s happening in Pattaya but expats there have been providing news on the comings and—sadly—mostly goings there.

I would hope that the new site will feature these types of postings in a prominent way. Although I agree that it’s difficult for any one site to be always current on openings and closings, I believe that that type of information on individual venues, both in the Silom area and beyond, will always be well sought after. (Just think how well received were the posts about the new massage shops Michael brought to our attention). I'm an occasional reader of Boy Toy's South America threads to learn about the same issues even if I have no plans to visit in the near future.

The gay scene in Thailand is and has been constantly evolving. That was to be expected, even before Covid. But that doesn’t’ necessarily mean that it’s changing for the worse. We saw the closing of Soi Twlight only to be heartened by the success of Patpong 2. I remain upbeat that the venues on that popular soi will regain their prominence once Thailand opens up again (without quarantine) to other SE Asian nationals and—of course—tourists from elsewhere in Asia and the west. It’s not going to happen overnight but it is going to happen.

[TotallyOz]

6 hours ago, z909 said:

Trying to do  a global gay guide on your own is very ambitious, particularly if you don't travel to some of the places.  Very ambitious to impossible.

Some people will update information, if it's easy to do so.

I'm the one who corrected some of the gay bar listings on Google maps in Pattaya, so Cupidol is now on the correct street etc.  Plus various other updates.  However, I quickly lost interest when Google failed to make further corrections, despite GPS tagged photo evidence off my Google Android operating system.   What further proof do they need?

If you make it easy for selected people to contribute and have troll filters or check the input for plausibility, the results might just be good.  

Obviously post covid, when we can travel and see what's open.

I like ambition.

4 hours ago, reader said:

 

I can’t quite envision what the revamped site will look like but I’m confident that Michael’s experience will yield a satisfying outcome.

Whatever it's called (guide, advisor, directory), the one feature that attracts the most activity on any gay website is trip and venue reports. Everything else is a distant second. I don’t think there’s any disagreement on that count.

Just looking over the past 10 months since the onset of Covid19, Michael’s “walk around” series that encompass news about clubs, bars, massage shops and his personal experiences have been the true lifeblood of the forum.

We’ve also been fortunate to have z909’s recent trip reports and the periodic venue reports from members on the ground in Bangkok (Anddy’s posts come to mind). I don’t closely follow what’s happening in Pattaya but expats there have been providing news on the comings and—sadly—mostly goings there.

I would hope that the new site will feature these types of postings in a prominent way. Although I agree that it’s difficult for any one site to be always current on openings and closings, I believe that that type of information on individual venues, both in the Silom area and beyond, will always be well sought after. (Just think how well received were the posts about the new massage shops Michael brought to our attention). I'm an occasional reader of Boy Toy's South America threads to learn about the same issues even if I have no plans to visit in the near future.

The gay scene in Thailand is and has been constantly evolving. That was to be expected, even before Covid. But that doesn’t’ necessarily mean that it’s changing for the worse. We saw the closing of Soi Twlight only to be heartened by the success of Patpong 2. I remain upbeat that the venues on that popular soi will regain their prominence once Thailand opens up again (without quarantine) to other SE Asian nationals and—of course—tourists from elsewhere in Asia and the west. It’s not going to happen overnight but it is going to happen.

It will look exactly like this site. The other site is coming here. Look around here and you will see the new site. There will be additional forum areas and a change of forum titles but the look will not change.

[PeterRS]

10 hours ago, z909 said:

Trying to do  a global gay guide on your own is very ambitious, particularly if you don't travel to some of the places.  Very ambitious to impossible.

i had no idea that the Cities section was all Michael's work. Congratulations, because some are a fascinating read. I thought most cities had probably just been moved over from the boytoy site. As z909 rightly points out, just describing the experience of visiting a new city is ambitious. Adding in the gay venues is even more so. I wonder if there could be a small panel of readers in the four listed Thai cities who could help by feeding in updated information from time to time.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, PeterRS said:

I wonder if there could be a small panel of readers in the four listed Thai cities who could help by feeding in updated information from time to time.

That's one way to get more content. 

Additionally readers might be encouraged to contribute to other sections, such as a "Rest of Thailand" section, Cambodia etc

Globally, there must be over 50 cities worthy of inclusion.  Some expansion to other parts of Asia would certainly be merited.  I would say the gay scene in Phnom Penh has more to offer than Chiang Mai these days.  Certainly more saunas and male massage places.  Also more going on in the Phnom Penh bars.

[TotallyOz]

On 1/12/2021 at 10:44 AM, PeterRS said:

i had no idea that the Cities section was all Michael's work. Congratulations, because some are a fascinating read. I thought most cities had probably just been moved over from the boytoy site. As z909 rightly points out, just describing the experience of visiting a new city is ambitious. Adding in the gay venues is even more so. I wonder if there could be a small panel of readers in the four listed Thai cities who could help by feeding in updated information from time to time.

All the content is original and all the photos are legal to use. For each city, they were purchased from stock photo sites and pretty costly. But, the goal is to get the site higher up in Google and be fully compliant.

Small panels of readers would be great!

[PeterRS]

On 1/12/2021 at 11:56 AM, z909 said:

Globally, there must be over 50 cities worthy of inclusion.  Some expansion to other parts of Asia would certainly be merited.  I would say the gay scene in Phnom Penh has more to offer than Chiang Mai these days.  Certainly more saunas and male massage places.  Also more going on in the Phnom Penh bars.

I assume that some of the new readers will be wanting to consider Thailand as a destination, assuming life does get back to normal and prices are not too much higher. If the new readership is primarily US based (my guess), since the trip to Asia is a major expense I expect some might wish to take in another country. My view would therefore be to look firstly at one neighbouring country and then at the hub airports where there will be plane changes and perhaps the opportunity of a few days stop over. As z909 points out, Phnom Penh/Siem Reap seems the obvious neighbour since it combines a flourishing gay scene with a bit of culture. Telling relatives and friends that the aim of the long trip is to see Angkor Wat rather than the fleshpots of Pattaya might go down well! back home

 For hubs Tokyo, Beijing and Taipei are the first that come to mind. Tokyo should not be difficult to write about since the gay area is basically focused in the Shinjuku Ni-chome area and a mention of the various host boy bars (great pics). Taipei should also not be difficult and there is always the hook of the huge Gay Pride Parades there at the end of October each year (more great pics) plus an increasing number of gay venues. Not sure about Beijing but have heard about Destination as being one of the gayest clubs in the region.

https://www.tripsavvy.com/destination-gay-bar-beijing-1417633

A lot of original pics of three of the cities have been posted here by members. I am sure they would grant approval for use on the new site to avoid the need for yet more expense. I have some I will happily donate - although they may not be completely up to date.

[TotallyOz]

BTW: I forgot to say one thing: The city guides go up to the S's. I have others for T's and beyond that will also be added.

[TotallyOz]

3 minutes ago, Michael said:

BTW: I forgot to say one thing: The city guides go up to the S's. I have others for T's and beyond that will also be added.

Written and waiting to add:

Santos Brazil

Seattle

Shanghai

Sheffield

Stockholm

Sydney

Tampa Bay

Tel Aviv

Tokyo

Toronto

Vancover

Venice

Vienna

Warsaw

Washington DC (sucks right now)

Wellington

Zurich

[Guest]

45 minutes ago, Michael said:

BTW: I forgot to say one thing: The city guides go up to the S's. I have others for T's and beyond that will also be added.

Never over estimate the ability of the reader to find material !

I visit the home page and see guides for 6 or 7 cities and assumed that was the lot.   Am I the only one doing that?

Having read your post, I click on cities and find loads of them, as you say.  That's on Android, with the mobile version of the site. 

To make access idiot proof, I think it either needs no cities or all of them on the front page.  

Alternatively, if everyone else has found this material already, do ignore me.

I read the Phnom Penh article, which very much reminds me of the early visits and things have somewhat evolved. I have made 5 visits to Cambodia in the last 14 years.  Once upon a time, boys would virtually be queuing up to introduce themselves in certain bars.   That's changed a lot, possibly as the percentage of Khmer lads in places like Pattaya has increased.

[TotallyOz]

48 minutes ago, z909 said:

Never over estimate the ability of the reader to find material !

I visit the home page and see guides for 6 or 7 cities and assumed that was the lot.   Am I the only one doing that?

Having read your post, I click on cities and find loads of them, as you say.  That's on Android, with the mobile version of the site. 

To make access idiot proof, I think it either needs no cities or all of them on the front page.  

Alternatively, if everyone else has found this material already, do ignore me.

I read the Phnom Penh article, which very much reminds me of the early visits and things have somewhat evolved. I have made 5 visits to Cambodia in the last 14 years.  Once upon a time, boys would virtually be queuing up to introduce themselves in certain bars.   That's changed a lot, possibly as the percentage of Khmer lads in places like Pattaya has increased.

Each image on homepage slows down that page. We picked the major ones that I thought the site users wanted fast on the homepage, as well as to make it pretty. An ode to both Thailand and Brazil. But, there are tons of cities and more coming. I have been to Beijing and am looking for that info.

[PeterRS]

I realise that everyone will have different likes, but shouldn't Taipei be included, given that Taiwan was the first Asian country to legalise gay marriage?

St. Petersburg also is fascinating for the traveller as well as being an easy city for reaching Helsinki by fast train and Estonia

[Guest]

1  Had anyone else found the much extended list of city guides before Michael mentioned it above ?      Having done the hard work in writing the content, it's good if people stumble across it.

2 I've been to St Petersburg and have even found a very discrete gay bar.  I gather things have been repressed somewhat since. A nice city, but the gay scene was't like (for example) Berlin or Sitges.