Us election Biden V Trump

[firecat69]

Although you make some good points , I see no chance of Republicans ever getting close to 80 seats.  Rather if Democrats come up with good candidates particularly  women , they will gain seats. I am hopeful that Dems will gain at least 1 seat in Georgia for the run off in January. Perdue is a piece of crap and without the Presidents coat tails , he is likely to lose in a state that is constantly moving Democratic. I see North Carolina moving Democratic as well as Arizona .

[williewillie]

USA was founded as a slave state, which has slavery in its constitution.  Every time I hear a Supreme Court justice

say what the founding fathers meant, I remember how many founding fathers were slave owners.

 Women fared 

better than the slaves but were considered property of their fathers and husbands for the most part.  Saudi Arabia not the first.

 USA close to

a neo-fascist state with old white christian men only interested in white supremacy.
Literally half of the USA citizens

only care that white men keep the power and keep people of colour disadvantaged.  

I was recently discussing Columbus on Columbus Day with another farang.  When I pointed out what a curse Columbus

was, bringing disease, stealing land, enslaving native people, my acquaintance said, what’s the problem, we’re white aren’t we.
We have a reprieve now but it’s only temporary and tenuous at best.  The struggle continues!

[Keithambrose]

Quite agree. When I went to Beaumont in Texas in 1978, my first visit to the good old USA, there were still signs saying 'nigger be out of here by sundown'. I don't think things have changed much.

[spoon]

I guess racist will continue to exist as long as we have race. It happened not just in the US but almost everywhere. But seems to be encouraged and applauded by trump, hence we can see the ugly face of it in the news/soc media. I cant say its any better here too. 

[firecat69]

3 hours ago, Keithambrose said:

Quite agree. When I went to Beaumont in Texas in 1978, my first visit to the good old USA, there were still signs saying 'nigger be out of here by sundown'. I don't think things have changed much.

You are right about 1978 and completely wrong about whether things have changed. Just in the 10 years I have made Atlanta my home, the change is unbelievable. The state voted for Biden against Racist Trump. The 2 white Republican Senator candidates who 6 years ago would have won in a cake walk will now have the fight of their life and I predict at least 1 of the Democrats will win.I go into Whole Foods and half the customers are Black. During the same time the change in North Carolina is amazing and likely will tend Blue in the next Presidential election.  Democrats did not win Texas but it is inevitable that in the next 10 years Texas will change to Democrats.

Unfortunately Florida continues to be stubborn Republican . Probably as much Democrats fault  for not understanding  the make up of the state which is highly diverse.

[vinapu]

12 hours ago, spoon said:

I wonder why have we not move to voting online and yet we dont mind puting everything else online, even our money, stocks and investment. Just my sunday mundane thoughts lol

they need to devise secure  system ensuring that it was really you who voted, not somebody else, That day will come within your lifetime  but likely not mine.

So far governments  can't devise system to let us, waving  wads of baht in both hands to let securely into Thailand to spent that money so what one can expect about such important topic of elections

[firecat69]

9 hours ago, Keithambrose said:

Quite agree. When I went to Beaumont in Texas in 1978, my first visit to the good old USA, there were still signs saying 'nigger be out of here by sundown'. I don't think things have changed much.

Just plain ridiculous . Those days are long over!!  42 years . Really you are just plain ignorant if you don't things have changed. Maybe not perfect but certainly not anything like you are trying to say.

[reader]

9 hours ago, Keithambrose said:

Quite agree. When I went to Beaumont in Texas in 1978, my first visit to the good old USA, there were still signs saying (N word) be out of here by sundown'. I don't think things have changed much.

Resorting to using the N word does not strengthen your argument; it diminishes it.  It's offensive in the extreme.

[williewillie]

Agree with firecat.  Tremendous changes in USA since 1978 concerning race.  The trump years legitimized racism,

which popularized nationalism and is neo-fascist at its core.  There still may be very dark days ahead until January 20th.

Probability of torch lite night rallies fairly high.. very glad to be in Thailand now, even with possibility of unrest here as well.

[reader]

From The Thaiger

PM  congratulates US President-elect Joe Biden

After the tight race for United States president, Thailand’s prime minister sent a message congratulating President-elect Joe Biden and Vice President-elect Kamala Harris on their victory against incumbents President Donald Trump and Vice President Mike Pence.

Reports say that Biden’s win could benefit Thailand. The Bangkok Post says trade tension between the US and China could ease up. The Thai Chamber of Commerce chairperson Kalin Sarasin says the US is likely to rejoin the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership and Thailand should be prepared for possible negotiations involving free trade agreements.

PM Prayut Chan-o-cha sent a message to Biden, congratulating both Biden and Harris on their win and adding that he is ready to enhance Thai-US relations.

I wish to extend to you and Senator Kamala Harris my warm congratulations on your election victory and the trust that you have earned from American voters.

“With the long-standing ties of friendship between our countries, dating back more than 200 years, Thailand, as the first treaty partner of the United States in Asia, takes pride in our strategic partnership, which contributes to our mutual benefit and the region’s peace, stability and prosperity.

“On behalf of the government and the people of the Kingdom of Thailand, I wish you every success and look forward to working closely with you and your administration to enhance further our cooperation at all levels.”

[anddy]

good (if sobering) piece on the issue of the nature of Trump voters:

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/11/04/politics/black-voters-2020-election-donald-trump-white-nationalism/index.html

Millions of White voters are once again showing who they are

Washington (CNN)Millions of White voters are once again showing who they are and -- spoiler -- it's not really that great for America, but in particular for Black and brown people.

 

[anddy]

https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2020/11/a9aa757c15db-japan-minister-bashes-trump-over-refusal-to-accept-election-loss.html

Japan minister bashes Trump over refusal to accept election loss

Japan's land minister said Tuesday he posted, then deleted, a tweet criticizing U.S. President Donald Trump's refusal to accept defeat in last week's election.

"A sitting president making accusations of election fraud and insisting he will 'never give up.' Am I the only one seeing this and thinking, what kind of dictatorship is this? Where has our role model for democracy gone?," Kazuyoshi Akaba wrote.

[continues]

 

"Role model for democracy" the US have not been for some time, but now it's completely down the drain...

[Guest]

On 11/8/2020 at 4:38 AM, spoon said:

I wonder why have we not move to voting online and yet we dont mind puting everything else online, even our money, stocks and investment. Just my sunday mundane thoughts lol

Good question.

I suspect online voting would be more prone to accusations of hacking and fraud.   Essentially, anyone who doesn't like the result could make such accusations.  

Whereas, with banking, stocks and investment, there is no point in making such accusations.   

[10tazione]

On 11/8/2020 at 6:09 PM, vinapu said:

they need to devise secure  system ensuring that it was really you who voted, not somebody else ...

And also ensure that the violent wife isnt standing behind the poor husband surveilling that he is voting as she told him ... there is a reason why elections are secret.

[spoon]

16 hours ago, z909 said:

Good question.

I suspect online voting would be more prone to accusations of hacking and fraud.   Essentially, anyone who doesn't like the result could make such accusations.  

Whereas, with banking, stocks and investment, there is no point in making such accusations.   

I mean i understand the issue, just perplexed that with all the modern technology advancement, we still cant figure it out. Although my quick search on google did found that certain state in US has already do some trials. 

On the point of fraud allegations, the same kind of argument can be used for mail in ballot as well. I guess its not the technology that is the issue but more so the resistance to change what is working. 

Apparently, Estonia did have online voting for their election.

https://www.euronews.com/amp/2020/11/02/why-don-t-more-nations-hold-elections-online-here-s-how-estonia-has-been-a-lone-trailblaze

[TotallyOz]

Interesting read at Mother Jones:

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2020/11/trump-became-president-because-of-racism-the-next-trump-could-too/

[PeterRS]

On 11/7/2020 at 12:48 AM, z909 said:

I do quite like the UK system of counting all night and installing the new government the next day, as long as the result is clear.   The counting is done manually as well, or at least it was last time I went to observe the process. 

The fact that all the votes have not been counted in the USA 8 days after the election shows what a total mess the entire system is. I’m not sure if any country has got it right but I agree with z909 that having all votes counted within hours of polls closing and then the new government being installed just hours later seems vastly better than the long drawn out affair across the pond.

There is so much I don’t understand. First the idiocy of the electoral college. Yes, I know it may have seemed a good idea at the time, but only to about half the framers. There was intense debate and many did not like it. 

Second, why is a system devised centuries ago when the USA was a totally different country remain acceptable today? It is a total anachronism and extremely anti-democratic.

I realise that voters are not only voting for a President and each state has therefore adopted different systems. But the Presidential vote is for a national office. The others for a local office - even including senators. So why is it so difficult to have one nationwide system for electing Presidents that is the same nationwide and another for local candidates where each can be as different as chalk and cheese. It is surely not out with the capabilities of the US computer companies to come up with an easy to use system that is fully backed up.

The mail-in system seems to work but each state having different systems seems again nuts! Why permit the counting of any vote whatever that is not received by the end of polling day? OK. The armed forces mail may take longer. So give them the ballot papers further in advance. That is surely so obvious. Same with ordinary mail in voters. Why do those who leave it to the last possible minute deserve to have a vote counted 4 or 5 days after the election? Then why do those who voted early have to wait to be counted last? They probably arrived first!

Then there is the weirdest part of all - a 10 week or so interregnum between the result of the election when, as we are now seeing, an outgoing President can play havoc with the government. What sort of wacky system is that? Again, centuries ago it was probably necessary. Today it most definitely is not. It can all be done in a matter of days as long as the senior civil servants remain in their positions.

it sometimes beats me why the US berates the world for not being more democratic. The USA needs to look at its own form of democracy and reform it first before it tells the rest of us what to do IMHO.

[spoon]

For the mail in vote, some of the point i can think of about why they allow fornit to be pass polling day, as long as its postmarked by polling day, is to give equal time for campaigner to finished their debate, so all voters have all the information available to them at the same time, and given the same time to make their decision on who they are voting. The presidential debate was done up to only few days before polling, so for the undecided, they need to see both sides of argument before they decided who theyll vote. If you required them to submit their vote before each candidates finished their debate, then you are forcing the mail in voter to vote early without getting the same exposure than those who voted on polling day. It wont matter much for voters who already know who theyll vote though.

[vinapu]

6 hours ago, PeterRS said:

 

it sometimes beats me why the US berates the world for not being more democratic. The USA needs to look at its own form of democracy and reform it first before it tells the rest of us what to do IMHO.

you got it right

problem is world recently seem to pay less attention to what USA says anyways

[reader]

[10tazione]

Let's suppose you need 2/3 of the votes in a parliament with multiple parties, then I guess it is extremely difficult to change an election system. Every party will evaluate the system if it is favorable or not for the next elections, so there will always be at least 1 party against it.

[firecat69]

10 hours ago, vinapu said:

you got it right

problem is world recently seem to pay less attention to what USA says anyways

Sadly you are right but hopefully when there are some competent people back in the Executive Branch , more attention will be paid, but it sure would help if the Dems won both the Ga Senate Seats.

[PeterRS]

14 hours ago, spoon said:

For the mail in vote, some of the point i can think of about why they allow fornit to be pass polling day, as long as its postmarked by polling day, is to give equal time for campaigner to finished their debate, so all voters have all the information available to them at the same time, and given the same time to make their decision on who they are voting. The presidential debate was done up to only few days before polling, so for the undecided, they need to see both sides of argument before they decided who theyll vote.

The problem in countries like Thailand the the UK and probably many others as well (Malaysia?) is that it is often totally impossible to read a postmark! How does the US mail system have such clear postmarks?

[PeterRS]

16 hours ago, spoon said:

For the mail in vote, some of the point i can think of about why they allow fornit to be pass polling day, as long as its postmarked by polling day, is to give equal time for campaigner to finished their debate, so all voters have all the information available to them at the same time, and given the same time to make their decision on who they are voting. The presidential debate was done up to only few days before polling, so for the undecided, they need to see both sides of argument before they decided who theyll vote.

Surely you realise that the last debate took place 12 days before the election!! Does mail in the USA take 11 days plus the 4 or 5 day extension? There are also drop boxes in I believe many states where votes can be deposited - and thats before the days when early voting is permitted. Personally I can’t see any valid reason for counting votes after the end of voting on Election Day.

[firecat69]

In a perfect world you would be right . However the US is far from perfect with Trump controlling the levers of government.Trump put someone with no expertise in charge of the Post Office .  The first thing he did is trash Million Dollar sorters ( essentially new) to the garbage heap. That immediately backed up the time for delivery of mail.  We still have no idea how many Votes by Mail never got counted because they are in trash piles or still sitting in post offices. This same person stopped all over time during this critical time of voting.

Of course it is undeniable that Democrats were encouraged to vote by mail which would lessen their chances of contracting the virus by standing for hours in lines to vote. Democrats heeded this while Trump told his Voters don't worry about the Virus. It is going away and really no problem. Mail in Ballots can't be trusted .

Well now we are seeing how dangerous this Virus is when you have a Moron like Trump running the government. All these idiot Republican Governors who danced to Trumps Flute now see their states overrun with the Virus with no beds in Hospitals  and Hospitals forced to allow medical personal who have tested positive but have no symptoms to continue to provide care. We are now on track for 500,000 deaths by the time any vaccine can be widely distributed. All of this because of millions of stupid citizens who danced to Trumps lies and refused to wear masks etc . 

Of course we have a lot of company around the world who also did not do what the Doctors suggested to help stop the spread of the Virus while waiting both for a vaccine and the ability to distribute it to an increasing % of the  public that does not trust anything said .

As someone who has travelled around the world since my 18th Birthday , I was always suspicious  of the USA and the supposed great Democracy. Yes we have done some great things and we have failed miserably in other instances.  But not until now have I had to question whether a large % of our politicians don't care about our citizens but only power . Likewise I am disappointed how many citizens of  Democracies around the world have failed to do the simplest things in order to protect themselves  and others from contracting  this Virus. There is plenty of shame to go around and likewise there is praise to go around for countries   who took the hard 

steps to protect their citizens despite the economic pain!