I am getting frustrated

[abidismaili]

I am waiting since March to travel. 
I have now a strong feeling in 2020 I will not travel to Thailand at all

I read today on the BBC the Thai government is maybe going to use the Covid crisis to drastically change Thailand’s future tourism. They don’t want millions of backpack tourists anymore. They want rich tourists. They don’t want sex tourists. 

I am getting the idea that maybe the era of gogo bars and beer bars is over. Without me realizing it at the time, maybe my November 2019 holiday was the last of its kind. 

How can the bar scene survive so many months without clients? Will it really ever get back to normal? 

I am frustrated 

[Boy69]

Don't be so pasimist. Thai government is trying to change the nature of the incoming tourism at the last 15 years but actually it remains the same more or less. The gogo bars scene will continue as usual at the near future however the question is when the apademic will over and when we can travel again .

[Guest]

1 The chances of getting to Thailand in 2020 look very slim at present.   All the alternatives in Asia also seem to be closed.

2 If Thailand decides to go upmarket with tourism, they would need government policy to enforce this.     All the people who pay a premium to visit high end resorts in places like the Maldives are not going to be paying large sums to stay in the budget hotels in Thailand.   That will lead to a big drop in tourism income and employment.   Of course, so far the government doesn't seem to give a damn about the people who are suffering from the drop in tourism & are without jobs.  Let's see what the protests lead to.

I don't think the Thai government can make a move upmarket stick, unless it's a perfectly executed strategy taking something like 30 years.

3  If the Thai government remains hostile to our presence after Covid, then I'll just look at the next best options.   

[TotallyOz]

1 hour ago, z909 said:

3  If the Thai government remains hostile to our presence after Covid, then I'll just look at the next best options.   

I don't think it is hostile. I think it is smart. They are keeping their people safe and I appreciate that.

[Guest]

A robust quarantine & test regime for visitors would keep the Thai people safe.    I'm not sure it's smart to go beyond that, to the extent where they don't let anyone in.

[Travellerdave]

I think that z909 has it right with 2020 ie Thailand will not open up to any significant tourism This year. Not upmarket Not mass either. It’s already nearly the end of the year so even there was a sudden unexpected opening the tourists would not arrive in quantity till 2021.

i suspect that many members of this board would be regarded as quality tourists if expenditure was the criteria. My spending on airfares, hotels, restaurants, and entertainment must be into an upper group. It’s just that my activities with Asian boys would not meet approval, as would not those of str sex tourists. 
maybe at arrival travellers could be asked (a)  to show proof of funds - say 6000 baht equivalent per day of the allowed stay. (b) promise not to engage in sex tourism. Perhaps forbidding guests to take persons to their room who were not registered would help in the drive for upmarket tourism.

just a few ideas - please Thai government let me in for a few weeks so I can advise you !.

 

[Boy69]

55 minutes ago, Travellerdave said:

maybe at arrival travellers could be asked (a)  to show proof of funds - say 6000 baht equivalent per day of the allowed stay. (b) promise not to engage in sex tourism. Perhaps forbidding guests to take persons to their room who were not registered would help in the drive for upmarket tourism.

If the Thai government would implement this the mass tourism will collapse immediately , Potential tourists won't accept this redicilous restrictions and will look for other more appealing & tourist freindly destinations. Thailand might remains with the small drill 'upper group' tourists like you the entertainment industry will collapse and no fun for you anymore... !

[vinapu]

3 hours ago, Michael said:

I don't think it is hostile. I think it is smart. They are keeping their people safe ....

and so does North Korea

if on top of stopping people flow they would stop foreign pensions flow,  chances are you were not as enthusiastic

( no idea my assumption about you being foreign pensioner is correct but even if not in your case,  there are many who are in that situation and sharing your opinion )

[vinapu]

2 hours ago, Travellerdave said:

(b) promise not to engage in sex tourism. Perhaps forbidding guests to take persons to their room who were not registered would help in the drive for upmarket tourism.

just a few ideas - please Thai government let me in for a few weeks so I can advise you !.

 

they already dispensed many nonsensical ideas so don't suggest them even more please

[vinapu]

1 hour ago, Boy69 said:

 the mass tourism will collapse immediately 

it already did in case you did not notice

[firecat69]

3 hours ago, Michael said:

I don't think it is hostile. I think it is smart. They are keeping their people safe and I appreciate that.

I agree. If much of the rest of the Western World had done its job , there would be many travelers who could visit Thailand .  Yes unfortunately I am a Trump citizen and not welcome in most of the countries in the world that I have visited over the last 50 years .

Talk about collapse how would you like to be a business owner in Hawaii. I'm not sure what % tourism is but I bet it is a lot larger then in Thailand . They let no one in from the other 49 states never mind any other countries , Just now talking about opening up without quarantine!

[vinapu]

While  I agree with Michael, Firecat and all others that Thai government  did very good job containing virus along with few governments in a region I wonder to what degree that success  is result of organizational skills and discipline of population and what part of that containment is  result of pure luck i.e. population being earlier exposed to similar type of virus.

Serious question and I'm sure that it will be answered after all that dust settles.

[TotallyOz]

32 minutes ago, vinapu said:

While  I agree with Michael, Firecat and all others that Thai government  did very good job containing virus along with few governments in a region I wonder to what degree that success  is result of organizational skills and discipline of population and what part of that containment is  result of pure luck i.e. population being earlier exposed to similar type of virus.

Serious question and I'm sure that it will be answered after all that dust settles.

I have had over 10 friends that stayed in quarantine hotels. They are met at the airport, shuffled around and checked for multiple things after having to secure a hard to get slew of tests and paperwork to even enter. Then, at the airport they are put into groups and checked all multiple times for correct paperwork and put into a car that is lined with plastic to go to a hotel where they are met with haz mat suits and put into a room for 15 days to be checked at least 3 times for Coivd. All of this is a result of the government doing a great job in taking care of its people and not luck.

However, the luck will be that the airports are now secure but the borders are not and if no one gets into the country by swimming over a river and walking across a field, I'll be very surprised and that would be sheer luck that another outbreak does not occur.

 

[abidismaili]

The fact that Thailand and other tropical countries have so few cases and death is because the virus doesn’t like these temperatures. You really think these governments in these half-failed states are more capable than Western governments to control it? That governmental capability doesn’t show itself in any other area then that is a responsibility of governments. 

Why it is the temperature? Because every single country at that latitude has no issue. 
if it was government skills shouldn’t there be countries at that latitude which have issues comparable to Europe? Africa which is almost all composed of failed states has no big issues. Temperature explains it all and is the common thing they all have in common. 

The survival rate of this virus is about 100% if you are below 60. If you belong in risky age group quarantine yourself. The rest of the population can live their life. 

[PeterRS]

1 hour ago, abidismaili said:

The fact that Thailand and other tropical countries have so few cases and death is because the virus doesn’t like these temperatures. You really think these governments in these half-failed states are more capable than Western governments to control it? That governmental capability doesn’t show itself in any other area then that is a responsibility of governments. 

Why it is the temperature? Because every single country at that latitude has no issue. 

You clearly are unable to read, unfortunately. Look at Florida. That is as hot as it gets in Thailand for most of the year. 15,185 deaths and total of 729,000 cases - and counting.  If heat kills the virus, why is it spreading like wildfire in a very hot country like india? If the virus loves cold weather, why does New Zealand only have 25 deaths. That country, please remember, was just going in to its winter when the virus appeared. It has still not reached its summer there. 

The reason for countries like Taiwan, Vietnam and Thailand, all dependent on huge numbers of Chinese tourists, having so relatively few cases is not related to weather. I wlll omit mention of your half-assed put-down re half-failed states. Instead I will again let facts speak for themselves.

Vietnam:  95.54 million population - 35 deaths

Thailand: 69.43 million population - 59  deaths

Taiwan: 23.78 million population - 7 deaths

USA: 328.2 million population - 219,686 deaths

The reasons for asian countries having vastly fewer deaths than western countries is perfectly simple. They identified and understood the threat as soon as it appeared. As early as February at least two of the above had put in place mask wearing, use of hand sanitisers, temperature checks and contact tracing. By late March, all three Asian countries locked down. In Thailand we had to use a phone app when entering and exiting every building to make tracing simple. Only take out food was available. In early May, there was a gradual opening up. Now we had to use the phone app not only when entering a shopping mall but also again when one of its eating places, shops and supermarkets.

I realise only too well how frustrating it is for so many stuck in other parts of the world who are unable to make their regular visits to Thailand. Rather than direct criticism at half-failed states, i suggest you write to your own government representatives to find out why they sat on their fat behinds and did nothing until it was too late. 

[abidismaili]

India is only number 70 in Covid death per capita as per 3 October  

Other factors can play a role besides temperature. But governmental policies seem very unlikely to explain it. 

Maybe culture to wear masks?  In Asian countries it was pretty usual to see people with masks in the streets before Covid. 

Another factor in Europe average age who dies is 85 (in the Netherlands it is 85). In Europe most elderly live in care homes. In Thailand with their family. Care home was a huge cause of spread of the virus. 
 

I can think of some other factors but if people think African or Thai government capability is better than the average Western country than you are delusional. 

And temperature really plays a role. Corona viruses don’t like it higher temperature. All things being equal it will be more severe in countries with moderate temperatures. 

 

[Gaybutton]

9 hours ago, firecat69 said:

If much of the rest of the Western World had done its job , there would be many travelers who could visit Thailand .

That is for sure!  Even the Special Tourist Visa is no guarantee.  Thailand's powers-that-be are saying if there is even one case of Covid-19 under that visa, then the entire program will be canceled.  People who bought the Elite card are also being denied entry unless they manage to meet all the requirements and then find a way to even get to Thailand.  Normal international passenger airline flights still are not allowed in Thailand.  I haven't seen anything that forbids entry via rowboat though . . .

I'm not trying to be a pessimist, but I am trying to be realistic as I see it.  As it stands right now, I just don't see Thailand allowing general entry to tourists within the foreseeable future.  I'm sorry, but from where I sit, that's the way it is.

[TotallyOz]

12 minutes ago, abidismaili said:

Other factors can play a role besides temperature. But governmental policies seem very unlikely to explain it.

And temperature really plays a role. Corona viruses don’t like it higher temperature. All things being equal it will be more severe in countries with moderate temperatures.

I am sure that is why Covid started to drop suddenly in the USA this summer. They had fewer cases when it started getting warmer, just like Trump said. Right?

No, that didn't happen!

[vinapu]

11 minutes ago, Gaybutton said:

.....  As it stands right now, I just don't see Thailand allowing general entry to tourists within the foreseeable future.  I'm sorry, but from where I sit, that's the way it is.

it's Ok , we will find another hobby

[spoon]

58 minutes ago, abidismaili said:

1. Another factor in Europe average age who dies is 85 (in the Netherlands it is 85). In Europe most elderly live in care homes. In Thailand with their family. Care home was a huge cause of spread of the virus. 

 

2. if people think African or Thai government capability is better than the average Western country than you are delusional. 

 

1. Rather than just elderly living in care homes, respect for the elders culture in asian countries does have huge impact i believe. That plays right into most of the population follows gov rules and regulation like social distancing, mask wearing, and tracing app, as we believed that doing so will protect our elderly, who are at higher risked of severe complication and death due to covid. And since gov/politician will do what they think the majority wants, they can do a lot of measures that would be very well acceptable in asian countries but down right human right violation in western countries. I also believe this culture of respecting elders is why many forum members love to visit thailand too. 

2. This exact thinking is the main reason that we see many western countries failed at containing the pandemic. They think their gov, their system, their people, their race, their everything is superior to the rest of the world, so they dont think they need to change or follow others that they think less of. Continue to think that way, it doesnt hurt anyone but yourself. 

[vaughn]

53 minutes ago, abidismaili said:

Other factors can play a role besides temperature. But governmental policies seem very unlikely to explain it.
Maybe culture to wear masks?  In Asian countries it was pretty usual to see people with masks in the streets before Covid.

Climate may play a small role, but i think it much more likely that the results of their low transmission rates comes down to acceptance of rules imposed on the public, and previous experience with epidemics like SARS et al.

I'm no expert on SEA politics and cultures, but i don't really hear of people in Bangkok trying to fight a Walmart employee for asking them to wear a mask for example.

[PeterRS]

33 minutes ago, abidismaili said:

India is only number 70 in Covid death per capita as per 3 October  

Other factors can play a role besides temperature. But governmental policies seem very unlikely to explain it. 

Maybe culture to wear masks?  In Asian countries it was pretty usual to see people with masks in the streets before Covid. 

Another factor in Europe average age who dies is 85 (in the Netherlands it is 85). In Europe most elderly live in care homes. In Thailand with their family. Care home was a huge cause of spread of the virus. 
 

I can think of some other factors but if people think African or Thai government capability is better than the average Western country than you are delusional. 

And temperature really plays a role. Corona viruses don’t like it higher temperature. All things being equal it will be more severe in countries with moderate temperatures. 

 

Is your middle name Trump by any chance? You simply parrot what you have been fed or what your mind refuses to believe.

Mask wearing. How many times have you been to Thailand? Five, six, Seven - more? In all those visits how many times - be honest = have you seen every Thai wearing masks! Simple answer. Never!  I have seen a few very occasionally over the last two years in January and occasionally February, These were to combat the higher rates of pollution that then existed. In general, people in Thailand do not wear masks. But in April, May and June this year everyone in the country wore masks! To travel today on public transport still requires the wearing of masks.

In the major cities in Japan many have worn masks for years again because of the pollution. Japan has a population of 126.5 million. In the summer it is as hot and humid as southern Thailand. How many deaths has the country had from coved19? Did you check? Deaths from coves 19 - 1,626.

I am delusional because I believe Thailand handled its covid19 policy better that western countries? That is nonsense! Sorry to say but but it is you who are totally delusional abidismaili. You cannot - absolutely cannot - argue with facts. You select facts. Re India, you totally fail to mention that India has had a total of 108,000 covid19 deaths and more than 7 million cases. Is that not one of the hottest countries?

You also seem to forget another simple fact - yes, fact. In 2003 the world faced another corona virus epidemic named SARS. Tis lasted about 8 months. Like covid19 that came from China and had spread from animals to humans. The first case was traced to a Chinese visitor to Hong Kong. It quickly spread to other Asian nations and on to a few western cities with largely Chinese populations like Vancouver and Toronto. The difference between the two viruses is that SARS symptoms became evident after only about 2 days of infection. Tracing therefore became far easier. But it was primarily Asian countries that were hard hit. Most others were hardly affected.

As a result those Asian nations realised that other viruses would eventually  appear. So they put in placel government medical departments specially equipped to handle future viruses. That is a key reason why Asian governments have been vastly more successful at controlling covid19 than western governments. That and a public with the memory of SARS. In 2003. I can recall landing at Don Mueang with more medical staff in full anti-infection gear than there were passengers.

So permit me to give you one piece of advice. Open your mind! Look at the facts. Read what the scientific experts are saying. You will then realise that you are absolutely, totally wrong.

[hank75]

This doesn’t make sense. Indonesia, Malaysia, Philippines are all exploding with cases despite being on the same latitude. Singapore is a case study, having controlled the virus extremely well in the general community but huge numbers in the closely confined dormitories. Conclusion can only be that it is about hygiene, precautions, isolating patients, mask-wearing, government regulations and proper social distancing. Not about warm countries. 

[anddy]

3 hours ago, PeterRS said:

As a result those Asian nations realised that other viruses would eventually  appear. So they put in placel government medical departments specially equipped to handle future viruses. That is a key reason why Asian governments have been vastly more successful at controlling covid19 than western governments. That and a public with the memory of SARS. In 2003.

One example of preparedness that stood out was South Korea with it's incredibly sophisticated contact tracing system using mobile phone data. That approach of course met privacy concerns especially in western countries (Asians just don't care as much about these things), but it DID work. 

Having said that, the most advanced and supposedly most "superior" country/government in the world, also did see it coming.... and then did nothing or abandoned what preparations had been started:

One of the commentators to the video summarized it as follows (there might be some devil in some details, but as a broad assessment sounds about right to me):

"Bush Jr talk about pandemic readiness, 
Obama set Pandemic Board, to prepare for coordination in Pandemic action plan.
Trump: Fired them dump all the plan.
2020: Coronavirus here I come."

[firecat69]

6 hours ago, abidismaili said:

The fact that Thailand and other tropical countries have so few cases and death is because the virus doesn’t like these temperatures. You really think these governments in these half-failed states are more capable than Western governments to control it? That governmental capability doesn’t show itself in any other area then that is a responsibility of governments. 

Why it is the temperature? Because every single country at that latitude has no issue. 
if it was government skills shouldn’t there be countries at that latitude which have issues comparable to Europe? Africa which is almost all composed of failed states has no big issues. Temperature explains it all and is the common thing they all have in common. 

The survival rate of this virus is about 100% if you are below 60. If you belong in risky age group quarantine yourself. The rest of the population can live their life. 

Complete ignorance. Check the deaths in Brazil or major cities in Mexico , Colombia and many more! Last time I visited those countries, I remember them as pretty  hot. Plus under  that thesis I wonder how those 110 degree temps in Arizona create so many deaths.  You sound like a Trumpster ( complete ignorance)