Is the sentence " I LOVE YOU" has any meanings

[Guest ziv77]

Is the word " I love you" has any meaning at a

ziv77 wrote:

I am posting this question after having a very bad experience just last week. The story begins when I wrote to J ..who I saw in Gay Thailand. He is from Vietnam, 28 years of age, very cute, has a nice smile, Intelligent, university graduate. We were writing to each other for almost 4 months in the Internet, sending SMS messages. Slowly, getting to know each other, We both felt attached to each other, to the extent that every mail was signed off with "I love you" "I think about you all the time" "I miss you" and more. I wish to empasize, that I live 10,000 km away from Vietnam. With the messages, I begun to phone him occasionaly, and indeed i fell in love with a person that I never met. I was led to believe that our feelings are both mutual, and we love each other very much. So far so good. We made a point to meet in Bangkok last week for few days and then go to Pattaya, being together with each other. Proper arrangments were made, I booked hotel in Bangkok and J.. booked in Pattaya. On the 12 of this month, J.. flew in from Vietname and I flew to Bangkok. He was waiting for me at the airport, and our meeting was very exciting. Sex between us was divine. I gave J.. many presents that I brought over for him, but never heared the word "THANKS": Of course, Being the older guy, I paid for our meals etc. The second date I took J.. to a fancy resturant, after having a good dinner together we left. Again, J.. never said "thanks". This has moved me a bit to the extent that I asked him, why dont you say thanks? you are inviting a guy every where, at leasr the guy should appreciate it. From my question, J.. was offended - yes offended and made a sour face From that point, I dont know nor understand, our relations started to deteriorate, and next day, J.. decided to take a room by himself, and not to stay with me, claiming, that he has to work at night, as he brought over his laptop with him. We of course continued to stay at the same hotel, I on floor 11, he on floor 12. I tried to understand, asking him, how can you say that you love and make such a big fuss out of a question, but never got a striaght forward reply. One evening we stil went out, the remining 2 evenings J.. went out by himself. I understood that he will be going by himself to Pattaya. I have tried to reason with him why he is behaving the way that he does but to no avail. I came from such a long way to be with him, as all was planed between us, and suddenly because of my question, everything turned upside down. On Saturday the 17th inst, I left the hotel early in the morning, going to Thai office downtown, and J.. left for Pattaya. When I camr back I found a note from him say that he is sorry for hurting me, signing "I LOVE YOU"

I was down to earth, and so hurt, that I guy whom I stil love very much can act the way he did. Never will understand how can one hurt the other with no reason at all. I decided that i am going back to my country, after having changed my flight ticket for Sunday the 18th.

 

I phoned j... in pattaya and told him that i leave tomorow, and thought that he would have at least phoned to ask how do i feel but yok.

 

J... has the habit to reply to almost everyone who writes to him signing these messages "Kiss and Hugs", while on one hand telling me of his love to me etc. he told me about an Australian guy who is prepared to do everything for him, planing to visit him at the end of the year in Vietnam. May be J.. writes tp him ,as well as ,to me that he loves him, who knows? I love him very much and I am so hurt by him of no reason whatsoever, and fail to understand this situation. How can a guy spit in your face the way he did. He is not a guy of the street, he is well manered and educated. God - who can give me a reply as to WHY??? I said to him ok just let me know why??? True, the world did not start with J... nor will it end with him.

 

Readers, please let me have your opinion, as I am now in a terrible state of mind, feeling very hurt with tears in my eyes

Thanks

 

 

 

 

 

[Gaybutton]

Sometimes it is terribly difficult to understand why certain things, said or done in complete innocence, can set these guys off like that. At the beach there is a "farang" hunter who is there almost every day. I call him "Cousin Ellen" because his face looks just like my cousing Ellen. It's just a joke, but when I told my boyfriend about it he started carrying on and was quite upset. He thought I was honoring the boy by bestowing the name of a family member upon him. Once bhe calmed down and I explained, everything was ok again, but I had no idea that a nothing little joke would end up being something that would upset him like that.

 

They often just don't see things the way we do. "J" probably considered your question as some sort of major loss of face and that might account for the way he behaved. Of course, he should have explained to you that the question upset him, assuming that is what is behind the upset, and gotten over it. Instead, he behaved like a child.

 

Are you certain that the question is the only factor that prompted his behaior? Could there possibly have been more to it than that or could it have been something else entirely?

 

Everything seemed to be going fine until one minor faux pas, and from that moment on he made your life miserable. That tells me he never really was what you thought he was. He sounds more like an ingrate to me and you are probably much better off finding that out right from the beginning. Suppose the incident never happened. What would be his response if you ever really did say or do something more serious?

 

I had something similar happen. Before I met my current boyfriend, there was another boy who I liked very much. We were getting along great. One day I was at the beach with one of my "farang" friends and his boyfriend, along with this boy. That night we were talking on the phone and he asked something about one of them. I said, "Are you talking about the 'farang' or the Thai boy?" You should have heard him lose his cool over that. That was the last time we ever saw each other. That was years ago and to this day I still can't figure out what I said that should have upset him in any way. Apparently I committed some sort of a crime by asking which person he was talking about.

 

"J" pouted like a little kid because he felt upset. He didn't seem to give a damn about the fact that you were upset too, although you tried your best to straighten it out.

 

Yes, it was a minor thing that he blew way out of proportion, cultural differences or not.

 

According to the way I am reading your story, the mention of the Australian came after "the big insult." I'm not so sure I believe that the Australian even exists. I think it's more likely he said that because he knew it would upset you.

 

As far as saying thank you, the Thais don't do much of that within interpersonal relationships. In my case, I have helped my boyfriend's father several times when he couldn't pay his rent. I covered him when he got sick. It wasn't a phony illness either. I went and saw for myself. I helped his younger brother pay for his schooling. I have yet to hear a thank you or any other indication of appreciation from any of them. But I've lived here long enough to expect it to be that way.

 

That doesn't mean I'm going to accept it, though. If these people want my help, I've got a few cultural norms of my own. I pointed that out to my boyfriend and made it clear that I am feeling like nothing more than an ATM when I don't even hear so much as a thank you. After all, I didn't go to them and give them a gift of cash. They came to me and asked for it. I also told him that I'm not here to be an ATM and I am not responsible for his family's problems. I'm all through helping out any of his family members. I told him that maybe Thais don't thank each other, but I'm a "farang" and I expect at least some sort of indication of gratitude when they come to me for help and they get the help they seek. I made it clear that I don't give a damn if they find it insulting or not. I can get insulted too, and that's exactly how I felt. I said that if it's too much trouble to at least say thank you, then don't come to me for help. Yes, I realize I am in their country and I have to adapt to their norms, but I draw the line when what they want is in my wallet. Say the words. Make the wai. Do something, but don't act as if I somehow owe it to them to help them out.

 

In your case here you were, busy treating this guy as if he were royalty and paying for everything, and then he has the nerve to get all bent out of shape simply because you pointed out that you would appreciate some form of gratitude? I see absolutely no reason in the world why "J" should have responded the way he did. There is no excuse for it and I don't see that sort of behavior as anything ingrained into Thai culture. When he decided to take a room by himself, who paid for it?

 

In my opinion, when he took things as far as that, you should have told him right then and there to get lost and should have spent the rest of your holiday enjoying yourself rather than letting his behavior get to you.

 

The words "I love you" do indeed have meaning, but both of you were using those words far too prematurely. You hadn't even actually met each other yet. I think you were probably more in love with the idea of being in love rather than actually being in love. Unfortunately, the feeling was obviously not mutual.

[Guest ziv77]

Sometimes it is terribly difficult to understand why certain things, said or done in complete innocence, can set these guys off like that. At the beach there is a "farang" hunter who is there almost every day. I call him "Cousin Ellen" because his face looks just like my cousing Ellen. It's just a joke, but when I told my boyfriend about it he started carrying on and was quite upset. He thought I was honoring the boy by bestowing the name of a family member upon him. Once bhe calmed down and I explained, everything was ok again, but I had no idea that a nothing little joke would end up being something that would upset him like that.

 

They often just don't see things the way we do. "J" probably considered your question as some sort of major loss of face and that might account for the way he behaved. Of course, he should have explained to you that the question upset him, assuming that is what is behind the upset, and gotten over it. Instead, he behaved like a child.

 

Are you certain that the question is the only factor that prompted his behaior? Could there possibly have been more to it than that or could it have been something else entirely?

 

Everything seemed to be going fine until one minor faux pas, and from that moment on he made your life miserable. That tells me he never really was what you thought he was. He sounds more like an ingrate to me and you are probably much better off finding that out right from the beginning. Suppose the incident never happened. What would be his response if you ever really did say or do something more serious?

 

I had something similar happen. Before I met my current boyfriend, there was another boy who I liked very much. We were getting along great. One day I was at the beach with one of my "farang" friends and his boyfriend, along with this boy. That night we were talking on the phone and he asked something about one of them. I said, "Are you talking about the 'farang' or the Thai boy?" You should have heard him lose his cool over that. That was the last time we ever saw each other. That was years ago and to this day I still can't figure out what I said that should have upset him in any way. Apparently I committed some sort of a crime by asking which person he was talking about.

 

"J" pouted like a little kid because he felt upset. He didn't seem to give a damn about the fact that you were upset too, although you tried your best to straighten it out.

 

Yes, it was a minor thing that he blew way out of proportion, cultural differences or not.

 

According to the way I am reading your story, the mention of the Australian came after "the big insult." I'm not so sure I believe that the Australian even exists. I think it's more likely he said that because he knew it would upset you.

 

As far as saying thank you, the Thais don't do much of that within interpersonal relationships. In my case, I have helped my boyfriend's father several times when he couldn't pay his rent. I covered him when he got sick. It wasn't a phony illness either. I went and saw for myself. I helped his younger brother pay for his schooling. I have yet to hear a thank you or any other indication of appreciation from any of them. But I've lived here long enough to expect it to be that way.

 

That doesn't mean I'm going to accept it, though. If these people want my help, I've got a few cultural norms of my own. I pointed that out to my boyfriend and made it clear that I am feeling like nothing more than an ATM when I don't even hear so much as a thank you. After all, I didn't go to them and give them a gift of cash. They came to me and asked for it. I also told him that I'm not here to be an ATM and I am not responsible for his family's problems. I'm all through helping out any of his family members. I told him that maybe Thais don't thank each other, but I'm a "farang" and I expect at least some sort of indication of gratitude when they come to me for help and they get the help they seek. I made it clear that I don't give a damn if they find it insulting or not. I can get insulted too, and that's exactly how I felt. I said that if it's too much trouble to at least say thank you, then don't come to me for help. Yes, I realize I am in their country and I have to adapt to their norms, but I draw the line when what they want is in my wallet. Say the words. Make the wai. Do something, but don't act as if I somehow owe it to them to help them out.

 

In your case here you were, busy treating this guy as if he were royalty and paying for everything, and then he has the nerve to get all bent out of shape simply because you pointed out that you would appreciate some form of gratitude? I see absolutely no reason in the world why "J" should have responded the way he did. There is no excuse for it and I don't see that sort of behavior as anything ingrained into Thai culture. When he decided to take a room by himself, who paid for it?

 

In my opinion, when he took things as far as that, you should have told him right then and there to get lost and should have spent the rest of your holiday enjoying yourself rather than letting his behavior get to you.

 

The words "I love you" do indeed have meaning, but both of you were using those words far too prematurely. You hadn't even actually met each other yet. I think you were probably more in love with the idea of being in love rather than actually being in love. Unfortunately, the feeling was obviously not mutual.

 

 

Sometimes it is terribly difficult to understand why certain things, said or done in complete innocence, can set these guys off like that. At the beach there is a "farang" hunter who is there almost every day. I call him "Cousin Ellen" because his face looks just like my cousing Ellen. It's just a joke, but when I told my boyfriend about it he started carrying on and was quite upset. He thought I was honoring the boy by bestowing the name of a family member upon him. Once bhe calmed down and I explained, everything was ok again, but I had no idea that a nothing little joke would end up being something that would upset him like that.

 

They often just don't see things the way we do. "J" probably considered your question as some sort of major loss of face and that might account for the way he behaved. Of course, he should have explained to you that the question upset him, assuming that is what is behind the upset, and gotten over it. Instead, he behaved like a child.

 

Are you certain that the question is the only factor that prompted his behaior? Could there possibly have been more to it than that or could it have been something else entirely?

 

Everything seemed to be going fine until one minor faux pas, and from that moment on he made your life miserable. That tells me he never really was what you thought he was. He sounds more like an ingrate to me and you are probably much better off finding that out right from the beginning. Suppose the incident never happened. What would be his response if you ever really did say or do something more serious?

 

I had something similar happen. Before I met my current boyfriend, there was another boy who I liked very much. We were getting along great. One day I was at the beach with one of my "farang" friends and his boyfriend, along with this boy. That night we were talking on the phone and he asked something about one of them. I said, "Are you talking about the 'farang' or the Thai boy?" You should have heard him lose his cool over that. That was the last time we ever saw each other. That was years ago and to this day I still can't figure out what I said that should have upset him in any way. Apparently I committed some sort of a crime by asking which person he was talking about.

 

"J" pouted like a little kid because he felt upset. He didn't seem to give a damn about the fact that you were upset too, although you tried your best to straighten it out.

 

Yes, it was a minor thing that he blew way out of proportion, cultural differences or not.

 

According to the way I am reading your story, the mention of the Australian came after "the big insult." I'm not so sure I believe that the Australian even exists. I think it's more likely he said that because he knew it would upset you.

 

As far as saying thank you, the Thais don't do much of that within interpersonal relationships. In my case, I have helped my boyfriend's father several times when he couldn't pay his rent. I covered him when he got sick. It wasn't a phony illness either. I went and saw for myself. I helped his younger brother pay for his schooling. I have yet to hear a thank you or any other indication of appreciation from any of them. But I've lived here long enough to expect it to be that way.

 

That doesn't mean I'm going to accept it, though. If these people want my help, I've got a few cultural norms of my own. I pointed that out to my boyfriend and made it clear that I am feeling like nothing more than an ATM when I don't even hear so much as a thank you. After all, I didn't go to them and give them a gift of cash. They came to me and asked for it. I also told him that I'm not here to be an ATM and I am not responsible for his family's problems. I'm all through helping out any of his family members. I told him that maybe Thais don't thank each other, but I'm a "farang" and I expect at least some sort of indication of gratitude when they come to me for help and they get the help they seek. I made it clear that I don't give a damn if they find it insulting or not. I can get insulted too, and that's exactly how I felt. I said that if it's too much trouble to at least say thank you, then don't come to me for help. Yes, I realize I am in their country and I have to adapt to their norms, but I draw the line when what they want is in my wallet. Say the words. Make the wai. Do something, but don't act as if I somehow owe it to them to help them out.

 

In your case here you were, busy treating this guy as if he were royalty and paying for everything, and then he has the nerve to get all bent out of shape simply because you pointed out that you would appreciate some form of gratitude? I see absolutely no reason in the world why "J" should have responded the way he did. There is no excuse for it and I don't see that sort of behavior as anything ingrained into Thai culture. When he decided to take a room by himself, who paid for it?

 

In my opinion, when he took things as far as that, you should have told him right then and there to get lost and should have spent the rest of your holiday enjoying yourself rather than letting his behavior get to you.

 

The words "I love you" do indeed have meaning, but both of you were using those words far too prematurely. You hadn't even actually met each other yet. I think you were probably more in love with the idea of being in love rather than actually being in love. Unfortunately, the feeling was obviously not mutual.

 

[Guest ziv77]

Dear Gaybutton

Thanks for your remarks. Seems to me that "J" took everything for granted. First of all he is not Thai he is Vietnamese you can read his profile here in gay Thailand. If you saw his messages on the internet and SMS sent to each other, you could not reach any other conclusion , but,that there is a true love between us. A remark made by me as to saw appreciations between 2 people can not cause what happened. Bear in mind, that I have travelled 11 hours flight to be with him, and our plans were made including reservations in Bangkok and Pattaya (he made the Pattaya reservation on his name)

I fail to understand this whole chared, We both came by flight to Bangkok airport, half an hour apart from each other, went to our hotel, had good sex together and you name it. Took him the next day to a fancy resturant and after the meal while coming out of the place I made my remark.

 

I can not understand until now, how an innoncent remark can cause a break between 2 lovers, unless for him to say "I love" and " I miss you" has no meanings. can some one who has feelings towards another guy can turn off the switch from hot to cold? Can anyone play with his feelings? may be yes - if there are no feelings at all

[Gaybutton]

I don't think it matters whether he is Thai, Vietnamese or anything else. It's the behavior that matters. I understand that you flew 11 hours to meet him. That also doesn't matter, at least not to him. I don't think he cared very much whether you flew 11 hours or 111 hours.

 

When you say that if I saw the messages, SMS's, etc. I could reach no other conclusion, I have to disagree. You reached that conclusion. Whatever you were feeling, he was apparently not feeling the same thing or to the same degree. You have been quite clear about the way you were feeling, but none of us, including you, can know how he was really feeling, no matter what he wrote.

 

Even if he truly did feel as strongly as you did - Even if he felt even more strongly than you did, he still behaved in that manner and although I am very sorry that things turned out this way, he simply was not the person you thought he was.

 

There are many boys in this part of the world who are genuine and absolutely sincere. I just don't think he was one of them, especially since he let something so trivial ruin the whole thing.

 

You did not answer one question. When he decided to get a room of his own, who paid for it? I am also curious as to who paid his airfare to Bangkok. Did you pay his airfare? If he paid his own way and paid for the second room, then perhaps he was sincere. If you are the one who paid everything, then that leaves much more room for doubt about his sincerity.

 

However, even if he was completely sincere, his behavior shows that you are much better off without him. The thing for you to do, in my opinion, is to get over it and stop trying to figure out why he behaved the way he did. Nothing is going to change what happened, so he is now nothing more than an unfortunate experience in your life.

 

What is important now is how you are going to let this incident effect you. Are you going to give up because of him or are you going to look for someone else? It didn't work out with this guy, but that doesn't mean that you won't succeed with someone else. You are a person who genuinely has very sincere, deep feelings. You simply went about trying to find love in a way that didn't work. Keep trying. Somebody out there is going to be lucky to have you and will realize that.

 

Don't give up, but also don't be so quick to fall in love with someone you haven't even met.

[Guest ziv77]

I don't think it matters whether he is Thai, Vietnamese or anything else. It's the behavior that matters. I understand that you flew 11 hours to meet him. That also doesn't matter, at least not to him. I don't think he cared very much whether you flew 11 hours or 111 hours.

 

When you say that if I saw the messages, SMS's, etc. I could reach no other conclusion, I have to disagree. You reached that conclusion. Whatever you were feeling, he was apparenbtly not feeling the same thing or to the same degree. You have been quite clear about the way you were feeling, but none of us, including you, can know how he was really feeling.

 

Even if he felt as strongly as you did - Even if he felt even more strongly than you did, he still behved in that manner and although I am very sorry that things turned out this way, he simply turned out to be something other than what you hoped.

 

There are many boys in this part of the world who are genune and absolutely sincere. I just don't think he was one of them, especially since he let something so trivial ruin the whole thing.

 

You did not answer one question. When he decided to get a room of his own, who paid for it?

 

 

He Paid for himself when he decided to move to his own room. He did expect me to pay at all.

What bothers me more is the fact that i was dealing with a guy of high qualities, well educated, holding a post of assistant manager in an American firm in Ho Chi Mina city, with high salary. He is by no means a money boy. All of that makes my hurting stronger, as I would not have expected such a behavior from a guy of such standing

 

He Paid for himself when he decided to move to his own room. He did expect me to pay at all.

What bothers me more is the fact that i was dealing with a guy of high qualities, well educated, holding a post of assistant manager in an American firm in Ho Chi Mina city, with high salary. He is by no means a money boy. All of that makes my hurting stronger, as I would not have expected such a behavior from a guy of such standing

 

[Guest ziv77]

He Paid for himself when he decided to move to his own room. He did expect me to pay at all.

What bothers me more is the fact that i was dealing with a guy of high qualities, well educated, holding a post of assistant manager in an American firm in Ho Chi Mina city, with high salary. He is by no means a money boy. All of that makes my hurting stronger, as I would not have expected such a behavior from a guy of such standing

 

[Guest ziv77]

[One more thing he paid for his airfare, he made reservation and paid for hotel in Pattaya, and I offered to reimburse him, which i would have. I paid for hotel in Bangkok and our going out if to a resturant or a bar. when he moved to his own room, I stil paid out. When I asked him why are you moving,to your own room when you have one, he replied that he hasd to finish reports for his firm late at nights, May be, and may be he used his laptop to comunicate with other people trying to fix a date/s with them - i dont know everything is possible and a big question. Of course when he left alone to Pattata, I did not pay and he did not ask

[Gaybutton]

[One more thing he paid for his airfare, he made reservation and paid for hotel in Pattaya, and I offered to reimburse him, which i would have. I paid for hotel in Bangkok and our going out if to a resturant or a bar. when he moved to his own room, I stil paid out. When I asked him why are you moving,to your own room when you have one, he replied that he hasd to finish reports for his firm late at nights, May be, and may be he used his laptop to comunicate with other people trying to fix a date/s with them - i dont know everything is possible and a big question. Of course when he left alone to Pattata, I did not pay and he did not ask

 

I'm glad to know he wasn't a money boy. As I said, I think it is a waste of time to try to figure out why this incident happened. All we can do is guess. I hope you will try again with someone else.

[Guest mauRICE]

What bothers me more is the fact that i was dealing with a guy of high qualities, well educated, holding a post of assistant manager in an American firm in Ho Chi Mina city, with high salary. He is by no means a money boy. All of that makes my hurting stronger, as I would not have expected such a behavior from a guy of such standing

 

How do you know this? Because he told you so?

 

What is a 'money boy' to you? Somebody in a loincloth wiggling his wares on a neon stage?

 

Is a testamur a testament to candour and true love?

 

Do tertiary education and a good job automatically preclude someone from being commercially motivated in a relationship? Successful escorts are often well-educated, refined and in possession of "high qualities".

 

If he were as financially independent and sophisticated as you claimed, perhaps he just wasn't impressed by your gifts and dinner treats or, he may have proferred his thanks in more subtle ways as people of "high qualities" are wont to do and you simply missed them. Remember, affluent Asian guys with options do not have to perform the stereotype of the awestruck, country bumpkin who is wowed everytime his colonial master comes bearing gifts.

 

Is his lack of gushing gratitude really the issue here or did you sense something else from the time you first met?

 

In the absence of face-to-face interaction from which we can assess body language, and compounded by cultural, linguistic and generational differences, how much can we really tell about a person 10,000 km away? You seemed to have made some very positive assumptions about this guy over the course of four months which were thrown assunder within two days of meeting him. Something is not right here and I have a feeling that you are not telling us the full story.

 

Realistically, what can a reasonable person expect from a 'relationship' based on a series of text messages and e-mails? There are farang living with Thais 24/7 who find out years later (as long as 15 years in a case that I know of) that they're being had so what makes you think your situation is unique?

 

I suspect that the classic bait, hook and release tactic was being employed here and to your credit you didn't fall for it. Did you beg him to stay with tangible offers of reconciliation when he threatened to move out to another room? No. Did you attempt to better the deal that his Australian friend was prepared to make, or at least show contrition upon hearing about it? No. Did you run after him in Pattaya with promises of long-term commitment and financial support? No. (Talk about the road to hell being paved with good intentions!)

 

This is not worth sweating over, as the Americans would say. Think of it as an Internet deal gone sour. Click on. I'm sure your Vietnamese friend has.

[Guest ziv77]

[

 

mauRICE thanks your comments. I think you have gone a bit into extreme in your writing. rest assured that I am not naive at all, may be when it comes to love and feeling - yes. He is not money boy by no means, nor providing escort services. As I see it, virtual love on the internet might be very catchy, the bait is there, and everything is on condition until you meet the person face to face. I did not attempt to do anything to try and change his decisions, nor trying to change his mind in respect to Pattaya. In fact, he never said that he wants to go to Pattaya by himself, it was just obvious from the state of affairs between us. I got a message from him last night read for yourself

 

"Dont be angry and dont feel sad Arie. I love you very

much. I regret that we could not live together much

longer. I had wonderful time being with you. WIll

never forget it.

 

Love you

 

Am I crazy here or what????

[Guest Hedda]

"I regret that we could not live together much longer. I had wonderful time being with you. WIll never forget it."

 

This, after sharing a hotel room with you for only a few nights ?

 

In my opinion, you can forget that thing about his getting upset over you calling him for not saying thanks. It was just a convenient pretext for this guy to set the stage to start unwinding the internet web you both weaved and from which he obviously wanted out.

 

No one feels happy about being rejected, but when you fall in love with a stranger on the internet who is half a planet away, you are setting yourself up to be disappointed when you eventually meet in person. That's especially true if there are dramatic differences in age, economics and culture involved, as probably involved here.

 

Get on with your life and forget it. You fell in love with an illusion. He didn't. If and when you find another lover in the flesh or over the internet, don't let your imagination and needs fill in the blanks. Consider yourself lucky, because someone who is as vulnerable to romance as you seem to be, could really have been taken for a painful ride by some serious gold digger looking to strike it rich on the internet. There are too many pebbles on the internet beach or in the surf at Jomtien to brood over one that got away.

[Guest mauRICE]

"He is not money boy by no means, nor providing escort services."

 

I guess you know better. I would have no way of knowing a person is really who he says he is from text messages and a highly-charged two-day encounter in a foreign country. Seven years of visiting gay Thailand, albeit now more as an armchair anthropologist than a participant, and I'm still discovering new tricks and MOs that the boys have come up with to bait a willing farang. They never cease to amaze me.

 

" I did not attempt to do anything to try and change his decisions, nor trying to change his mind in respect to Pattaya."

 

As I suggested, this could have been the reason why the 'relationship' ended as quickly as it did. You didn't bite, therefore low FEP (future earning potential).

 

"Am I crazy here or what????"

 

Oh no. You're just in love. Well look, it appears that he's giving you a second chance. Why don't you take it and I'm sure we'll see you here again in four months.

[Guest gmac]

 

Ziv, I think the problem is one of cultural differences. Most of us who have been involved in relationships with Asians before know that farangs are expected to pick up the tab when they take their boyfriends or girlfriends out on the town. And "Thank you" is not something we expect to hear. Instead, your lover will show his gratitude in other ways...and not always immediately. It was something I had to get used to. But my ladyboy lover went out of her way to make sure that she pleased me...both in and out of bed.

 

I think that your approach made J feel that you wanted him to feel subservient to you. That by saying "thank you" that you really wanted him to "kiss your ass." You can't flaunt superiority in front of someone who is a proud person. He probably felt that he was giving the "best" that he had...both as a lover and as a companion.

 

Beyond that, however, it would appear that J is rather self-absorbed. Like some of the other young, attractive Asian men I have known, they are looking out for Number One. Somewhere along the line, J decided that you weren't the love of his life. Otherwise, he would have found a way to save face and also save the relationship.

 

I would suggest that you move on. I think J already has.

 

Good luck to you in the future. You sound like a lovely person. But I would suggest a little more research into the oriental mind before getting involved in a relationship with one again.

 

GMAC

 

Is the word " I love you" has any meaning at a

ziv77 wrote:

I am posting this question after having a very bad experience just last week. The story begins when I wrote to J ..who I saw in Gay Thailand. He is from Vietnam, 28 years of age, very cute, has a nice smile, Intelligent, university graduate. We were writing to each other for almost 4 months in the Internet, sending SMS messages. Slowly, getting to know each other, We both felt attached to each other, to the extent that every mail was signed off with "I love you" "I think about you all the time" "I miss you" and more. I wish to empasize, that I live 10,000 km away from Vietnam. With the messages, I begun to phone him occasionaly, and indeed i fell in love with a person that I never met. I was led to believe that our feelings are both mutual, and we love each other very much. So far so good. We made a point to meet in Bangkok last week for few days and then go to Pattaya, being together with each other. Proper arrangments were made, I booked hotel in Bangkok and J.. booked in Pattaya. On the 12 of this month, J.. flew in from Vietname and I flew to Bangkok. He was waiting for me at the airport, and our meeting was very exciting. Sex between us was divine. I gave J.. many presents that I brought over for him, but never heared the word "THANKS": Of course, Being the older guy, I paid for our meals etc. The second date I took J.. to a fancy resturant, after having a good dinner together we left. Again, J.. never said "thanks". This has moved me a bit to the extent that I asked him, why dont you say thanks? you are inviting a guy every where, at leasr the guy should appreciate it. From my question, J.. was offended - yes offended and made a sour face From that point, I dont know nor understand, our relations started to deteriorate, and next day, J.. decided to take a room by himself, and not to stay with me, claiming, that he has to work at night, as he brought over his laptop with him. We of course continued to stay at the same hotel, I on floor 11, he on floor 12. I tried to understand, asking him, how can you say that you love and make such a big fuss out of a question, but never got a striaght forward reply. One evening we stil went out, the remining 2 evenings J.. went out by himself. I understood that he will be going by himself to Pattaya. I have tried to reason with him why he is behaving the way that he does but to no avail. I came from such a long way to be with him, as all was planed between us, and suddenly because of my question, everything turned upside down. On Saturday the 17th inst, I left the hotel early in the morning, going to Thai office downtown, and J.. left for Pattaya. When I camr back I found a note from him say that he is sorry for hurting me, signing "I LOVE YOU"

I was down to earth, and so hurt, that I guy whom I stil love very much can act the way he did. Never will understand how can one hurt the other with no reason at all. I decided that i am going back to my country, after having changed my flight ticket for Sunday the 18th.

 

I phoned j... in pattaya and told him that i leave tomorow, and thought that he would have at least phoned to ask how do i feel but yok.

 

J... has the habit to reply to almost everyone who writes to him signing these messages "Kiss and Hugs", while on one hand telling me of his love to me etc. he told me about an Australian guy who is prepared to do everything for him, planing to visit him at the end of the year in Vietnam. May be J.. writes tp him ,as well as ,to me that he loves him, who knows? I love him very much and I am so hurt by him of no reason whatsoever, and fail to understand this situation. How can a guy spit in your face the way he did. He is not a guy of the street, he is well manered and educated. God - who can give me a reply as to WHY??? I said to him ok just let me know why??? True, the world did not start with J... nor will it end with him.

 

Readers, please let me have your opinion, as I am now in a terrible state of mind, feeling very hurt with tears in my eyes

Thanks

 

[Guest mauRICE]

In my opinion, you can forget that thing about his getting upset over you calling him for not saying thanks. It was just a convenient pretext for this guy to set the stage to start unwinding the internet web you both weaved and from which he obviously wanted out.

 

This occurred to me too. Was there a complete disclosure of information between the two of you (exchange of current, full photographs, viewing each other on cam, for example) prior to the meeting?

 

[Gaybutton]

I agree with Hedda and Maurice. Maurice came on strong, but I think you needed to "hear" it like that. The very fact that you posted this guy's SMS message indicates that you are still grasping at straws, hoping for some logical explanation, and hoping that someone will tell you that things can still work out with this guy.

 

Just forget about it. If he sends you any more SMS messages or E-mails, just delete them without reading them. Whatever you do, don't respond to any of them. If he tries to call you, hang up on him. He'll figure it out sooner or later. This guy is in the wrong, not you.

 

I disagree with gmac about cultural differences even being a factor in this incident. After living here for a few years now, I think most of this cultural difference stuff is a lot of bullshit. I think most of it is nothing more than an excuse to justify inappropriate behavior. Certainly plenty of cultural differences do exist. I don't deny that, but in your case I don't see how cultural differences would fit into it at all. In my initial response to you, I suggested that he might have perceived your comment as a major loss of face. Upon reflection, I don't think so anymore. What seems to be coming out of this story is that this guy used that as an excuse, for reasons we probably will be unable to determine.

 

It doesn't matter what his reasons were. The whole thing was so trivial and this guy blew it up so far out of proportion that I am convinced that Hedda is absolutely right. You fell in love with an illusion.

 

I believe you are seeking love. I can't say I blame you for that. But you are going about it in the wrong way. Trying to find "love by Internet" has the least possible chance of working. You need to come over here and find it for yourself. As far as I'm concerned, responses to personal ads on the Internet might be fine for brief sexual encounters, but are rather useless for finding genuine love. You have a better chance of winning the Irish Sweepstakes than ever finding true love by Internet.

 

In any case, I think you are far better off being rid of this guy.

[Guest ziv77]

This occurred to me too. Was there a complete disclosure of information between the two of you (exchange of current, full photographs, viewing each other on cam, for example) prior to the meeting?

 

 

 

Yes there was, his pictures appear on his profile, and mne were sent to him all prior to our meeting. We were writing to each other few times a day, sending SMS messages as well few times a day, I phoned his cell phone few times, each message ended with I miss you , I love you, I think about you all the time etc

[Gaybutton]

Yes there was, his pictures appear on his profile, and mne were sent to him all prior to our meeting. We were writing to each other few times a day, sending SMS messages as well few times a day, I phoned his cell phone few times, each message ended with I miss you , I love you, I think about you all the time etc

 

It looks like he didn't miss you, didn't love you, and didn't think about you all the time. If he did, it obviously was not in the same way you were thinking about him. This might-have-been-relationship seems to have meant everything to you, while to him it did not. I think Maurice is right. You were being had all along.

 

To my mind there are only two possibilities that could account for his behavior. Either he has some sort of ulterior motive or he has some sort of mental problem.

 

But what about your own behavior? You seem to think that he has failed to take into consideration what you went through just to meet him. I believe the truth is that he didn't give a damn about any of that.

 

I hope you are considering the idea that every response to your message is essentially saying the same thing . . . get rid of him and forget about him and move on with your life. We are all advising you to simply let go of something that never existed, other than in your own mind, in the first place. You will be well served if you follow that advice. He's gone. That won't change, so forget about it.

 

One thing is certain. If you try to hang on to him, then your life is going to be absolutely miserable. If you let him go, it will probably hurt for awhile, but that will pass and you will be much happier once you find someone else. And you will find someone else. Finding someone in Thailand is the least of the problems. Finding someone is virtually guaranteed in Thailand. The trick is to find the right person, and this guy for sure isn't it.

 

Part of the problem is as I stated before. You have very little chance of finding a positive relationship through the Internet, phone calls, and text messages. I know a couple of the boys who placed personal ads on this very web site. I won't tell you which ones, but I can tell you they are so full of crap that their teeth must be brown. One of them tried to get on my matchmaking service, when I was running it. The guy was a complete liar and we saw through that very quickly. He didn't make it to the matchmaking service. He shows up at the beach every other week or so, and is constantly on the hunt for "farang." He advertises himself as wanting a relationship. Meanwhile, all he really wants is money. That is typical of boys who place personal ads. Some might be absolutely sincere, but so many are not that you are stepping into very dangerous waters by taking the risk with any of them. I wish that was not so, but they are well aware that they are young and attractive, so they prey on aging "farang" for their money by conning them into believing they have at last found true love with the boy of their dreams.

 

Some are very good at it. I remember one boy who used to show up with two mobile phones, each with a different phone number. One was to place and receive calls from one "farang" and the second was to place and receive calls from another "farang." He would tell each one of them things like "I love you so much." "You are life me." "I love only you." Meanwhile he had both of the "farang" sending him money all the time and he would brag to me about it. He was proud of it. His actual boyfriend was a Sunee Plaza lady-boy. I asked him what he was going to do once these "farang" caught on and/or stopped sending him money. He merely shrugged and said, "Many 'farang' come to Pattaya."

 

I have no idea what motivated the guy you met. Maybe it wasn't money. I don't know. But for someone to treat you in that manner over an incident so trifling, how do you think you will be treated if a relationship ever forms? He simply isn't worth it.

[Guest ziv77]

[

By no means he was not motivated by money at all, he is not a money boy!!!! J is well educated, holds a position of Assistant Manager in an American firm in Vietnam, speaks fluent English, well aware of European on goings, very smart and above all very cute and sweet. I am saying all of that by knowing him. Seems to me that certain part of him was unknown to me, as I dont see any reason to what happened. He is a very loveable person, and what ever he did to me was done in a well manared behavior. When you weigh all of this, i fail to understand his motives to his actions, and this bothers me most. My questions to him as WHY remained unreplied. My remark to him about showing appreciation is not the cause at all. Its a pretext and no more.

[Gaybutton]

[

By no means he was not motivated by money at all, he is not a money boy!!!! J is well educated, holds a position of Assistant Manager in an American firm in Vietnam, speaks fluent English, well aware of European on goings, very smart and above all very cute and sweet. I am saying all of that by knowing him. Seems to me that certain part of him was unknown to me, as I dont see any reason to what happened. He is a very loveable person, and what ever he did to me was done in a well manared behavior. When you weigh all of this, i fail to understand his motives to his actions, and this bothers me most. My questions to him as WHY remained unreplied. My remark to him about showing appreciation is not the cause at all. Its a pretext and no more.

 

Money boy or not, as far as I'm concerned he still turned out to be someone who is not worth another thought.

 

We'll never know why he behaved that way. The rest of us fail to understand his motives and actions too. What difference does that make? Whether we understand it or not, he still chose those actions, actions that obviously caused you a lot of grief. There is no way he didn't realize that. It is even more unjustifiable in light of what you are saying about his education and experience. Some of the brightest people can still turn out to be jerks. Whatever you are looking for, you're not going to find it in this guy.

[Guest stef]

Money boy or not, as far as I'm concerned he still turned out to be someone who is not worth another thought.

 

We'll never know why he behaved that way. The rest of us fail to understand his motives and actions too. What difference does that make? Whether we understand it or not, he still chose those actions, actions that obviously caused you a lot of grief. There is no way he didn't realize that. It is even more unjustifiable in light of what you are saying about his education and experience. Some of the brightest people can still turn out to be jerks. Whatever you are looking for, you're not going to find it in this guy.

 

 

I have to agree here with GayButton, Money boy or not, He still turned out to be someone who isn't really worth to spend more time on.

 

There are many guys out there , many tastes and I am sure you will find the right guy. You can't let this bother you to this extreme level.

 

It is important not to expect too much from an internet relation. You have to take it easy and see how things goes...