Face Masks, Gel etc

[spoon]

Lets hope the boys will also survive not making enough money due to severe lack of tourist during this supposedly high season for thailand

[jason1975]

31 minutes ago, spoon said:

Lets hope the boys will also survive not making enough money due to severe lack of tourist during this supposedly high season for thailand

I shall do my part to help them by tipping them when I am there next month! 

[Boy69]

44 minutes ago, spoon said:

Lets hope the boys will also survive not making enough money due to severe lack of tourist during this supposedly high season for thailand

I just left Pattaya and can confirm the situation for the boys is not easy at the moment all the boys qouted 1000 Bht for ST through the apps and are desperate for a session.

[Nikom]

I too will do my part with good tips this coming month.  Arriving early March

 

 

[gpfun69]

https://thanksamillion.sg/thailand-declares-covid-19-a-dangerous-contagious-disease-what-it-means-to-tourists/

TAT’s recommendations for tourists

All incoming visitors are advised to “travel safely” by practising daily hygiene habits: frequently wash hands with water and soap or alcohol gel; avoid touching eyes, nose, and mouth; strictly comply with the recommendations of “eat cooked food, use serving spoons and wash hands”, and wear hygienic masks when in a crowded area.

While travelling, avoid close contact with anyone with cold or flu-like symptoms, avoid visiting crowded places, and wear a surgical mask if you have respiratory symptoms.

[anddy]

7 hours ago, winterjanu said:

I was at Prime on Sunday. I walked there in the afternoon heat and was measured at 37.2 degrees C.  I was asked to sit down on the bench outside, which had a fan blowing to cool down. Within a minute, my temperature dropped to 36.7 and was allowed in. I didn't ask what the threshold temperature was but generally everywhere else the clear defined temperature that they are looking at is 37.5.

that illustrates that this whole excercise is not very useful. Obviously, nobody healthy ever measures their body temperature several times throughout the day. When in Singapore recently, many places like temples, tourist attractions, shopping malls, banks, had temp. measurement at the door. Well guess what, my own and my companion's temperature was all over the place, going up and down wildly and rapidly. Two examples:

1. at one of the "trees" at Gardens by the Bay they took the temp. I was rather high (to my surprise) at something like 37.6. We had been walking around in the heat and humidity for some time. They said "sorry Sir you can't enter now". Me: "but there's aircon inside, I'll cool down inside in no time". They: "Sorry Sir can't let you in, please cool down first". OK, no point arguing so went to coffee shop maybe 100m away with aircon. Sat there for maybe 10 minutes, sucked on some ice cubes, then went back. Temperature now about 36.8. All good, can go in now.

2. At a temple, my friend is at 36.7 or thereabout. About half an hour later at the entrance to the bank, 37.5. "Oh you rather hot la" but could go in. Asked about the threshold: 38. Inside he cooled down of course and when going out maybe 20 minutes later went back to the temp checkers at the entrance to re-check, just for the fun of it: well under 37. 

 

The morale of the story: any threshold that has a 37-handle is really useless as that temperature is completely meaningless and not indicative of a fever here in the hot climate.

When I am actually sick I already feel very unwell at a rather low temp of 37.3 and KNOW I have something, even though doctors and nurses then always say "no fever". But this heat-induced 37+ temperature doesn't make me feel uncomfortable or unwell at all. 

[gpfun69]

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asia/thailand-covid19-coronavirus-cases-12468314

Saw this in the news report in Singapore:

Thailand had "an extensive network of surveillance and rapid response teams", which made it effective in tracing and monitoring contacts of infected people, World Health Organization representative in Thailand, Richard Brown, told Reuters.

Thiravat Hemachudha, head of the Thai Red Cross Emerging Infectious Diseases Center, praised the government's work to slow the spread of infections but warned that swifter decision-making was necessary.

[eurasian]

N95 has a protection around %80 ( unfortunately according to the latest reports ) , other masks are useless ( prevents bacteria not viruses ). Climate is important , virus likes cool , cold weather . Main characteristic symptoms are coughing and fever but without a sore throat . % 80 of the infected patients do not have major symptoms . % 5 need respiratory support . 

Covid19 binds to a protein called ACE2 in the lungs  This protein is more common in Asians and Arabs then white and black people . Risk seems to be 1/6 in white population compared to Asians . 

Washing hands , face and cleaning the nose frequently helps a lot . Besides the antiseptic gels %70 alcohol solution or even cologne is useful to clean the hands , recommended to be used two times . %90 alcohol evaporates very quickly that is why %70 is better as it stays longer on the skin .

Take care everybody .

Eurasian , MD . 

 

 

 

   

[JackR]

The numbers in Thailand (if accurate) are actually impressive. Considering that South Korea, Singapore and Japan have hundreds of cases, and Thailand has only 37 (2 in the last 7 days)

[DivineMadman]

A very sobering/depressing article in The Atlantic.  https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/02/covid-vaccine/607000/

 

[Jasper]

Just arrived Suvarnabhumi airport this morning.

There was one thermographIc scanner check point where officer was shouting “ walk one by one” urging all passengers to walk in the line.

At the immigration hall, I have never seen so few tourists, only 4 or 5 people, considering I always use the same flight it’s quite alarming.

There was a big bottle of alcohol hand sanitiser beside fingerprint scanner.

Immigration officer was quick to clean his hands after handling my passport.

At the hotel, every receptionists were wearing face mask and there was a note saying masks are complementary for guests if requested.

Me? I am armed with N95 masks, disposable surgical gloves and tons of hand sanitisers. lol

[PeterRS]

3 hours ago, DivineMadman said:

A very sobering/depressing article in The Atlantic.  https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/02/covid-vaccine/607000/

Sobering indeed. A key part of the article is surely this one.

Quote

The real problem is that preparedness for this outbreak should have been happening for the past decade, ever since SARS. “Had we not set the SARS-vaccine-research program aside, we would have had a lot more of this foundational work that we could apply to this new, closely related virus, ” Jason Schwartz, an assistant professor at Yale School of Public Health said. But, as with Ebola, government funding and pharmaceutical-industry development evaporated once the sense of emergency lifted. “Some very early research ended up sitting on a shelf because that outbreak ended before a vaccine needed to be aggressively developed.”

After SARS it was widely reported that another similar illness would eventually appear and that it would originate in China where animals and humans often exist in close proximity to each other. 

Early and continuing research is vital with all new illnesses. Lest we forget, researchers now believe the first known AIDS patient in the USA was a teenager Robert Rayford whose immune system was dysfunctional and who suffered from a number of highly unusual symptoms including Kaposi's syndrome. Rayford died in St. Louis in 1969. The autopsry results baffled doctors. It was only in 1988 that tests found HIV antibodies in his blood samples. How he was infected is not known. It is suspected that he could have been a child prostitute. St. Louis was TWA's international hub city. The case was so unusual it was the subject of an extensive 1973 article in the medical journal Lymphology. It is mere speculation but had research continued on Rayford's death, could the HIV pandemic have been nipped in the bud?

[Travellerdave]

I am in Pattaya where there is not much of an impact apart from the virtual lack of Chinese visitors. Looking out to sea there are few para-gliders being towed by speed boats -Chinese are  the main customers for this activity. A very small number of Thais are wearing face masks and farangs virtually none. The boys I have slept with seem totally unaware of Coronavirus.

[vinapu]

12 hours ago, jason1975 said:

I shall do my part to help them by tipping them when I am there next month! 

you have  a good heart!!!

[vinapu]

53 minutes ago, Jasper said:

 

Me? I am armed with N95 masks, disposable surgical gloves and tons of hand sanitisers. lol

hope that load will dampen your fun there

[reader]

15 hours ago, anddy said:

2. At a temple, my friend is at 36.7 or thereabout. About half an hour later at the entrance to the bank, 37.5. "Oh you rather hot la" but could go in. Asked about the threshold: 38. Inside he cooled down of course and when going out maybe 20 minutes later went back to the temp checkers at the entrance to re-check, just for the fun of it: well under 37.

When seeking information on how infrared non-contact thermometers work for post above, I read much technical data on the accuracy of readings which can vary with training and experience of user and calibration of device. They are a tool to help identify people who could—or could not— have a fever. But they are not the the basis for diagnosis. If someone has been out in the sun it’s understood that their skin surface temperature is going to be elevated, as Anddy points out.

Read that Israel has been so dissatisfied with results of temperature screening at airports that it no longer relies on it. They rely more q and a interview. 
 

===============================================

from Reuters 

Thailand reports three new virus cases, urges disclosure of travel history

BANGKOK (Reuters) - Thailand reported three new cases of a coronavirus on Wednesday, taking total infections to 40, health ministry officials said, criticizing patients for not disclosing their travel history.

Two of the new patients, all of whom were Thai nationals, had returned from vacation in Japan’s northern island of Hokkaido and came into contact with the third patient, an 8-year old boy, said Sukhum Kanchanapimai, permanent secretary at the ministry. 

The male patient had not disclosed his travel history when he first sought medical attention and risked becoming a super-spreader, an incident of large transmission from a single source, health minister Anutin Charnvirakul said. 

“We have to criticize this case ... it creates a lot of trouble for us,” Anutin said.

The patient came to the hospital on Feb. 23, but did not disclose his travel history until the next day, B Care Medical Center said in a statement. 

The patient came into contact with 30 medical personnel at the hospital, who later tested negative for the virus and are in self-quarantine at home, the statement said.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-health-thailand-idUSKCN20K0NL

 

 

[reader]

10 hours ago, DivineMadman said:

A very sobering/depressing article in The Atlantic.  https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/02/covid-vaccine/607000/

 

Quite sobering prediction:

Lipsitch predicts that within the coming year, some 40 to 70 percent of people around the world will be infected with the virus that causes COVID-19. But, he clarifies emphatically, this does not mean that all will have severe illnesses. “It’s likely that many will have mild disease, or may be asymptomatic,” he said. As with influenza, which is often life-threatening to people with chronic health conditions and of older age, most cases pass without medical care. (Overall, about 14 percent of people with influenza have no symptoms.)

[gpfun69]

<Deleted>

[Jasper]

Where to go for a test

 

Feb 26. 2020

https://www.nationthailand.com/news/30382908

 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Jasper said:

Where to go for a test

Now there's a good point.   

If I were going for a test and I hope I don't need to, I would be taking extreme care whilst in the hospital, particularly where they do the test.   After all, the density of people who think they might be affected would be rather high.

Think I would also pass on any optional medical appointments.   I also read that hospital business is down, due to fewer overseas visitors.

[reader]

From Bloomberg News

How to Avoid Coronavirus on Flights: Forget Masks, Says Top Airline Doctor

Forget face masks and rubber gloves. The best way to avoid the coronavirus is frequent hand washing, according to a medical adviser to the world’s airlines.

The virus can’t survive long on seats or armrests, so physical contact with another person carries the greatest risk of infection on a flight, said David Powell, a physician and medical adviser to the International Air Transport Association. Masks and gloves do a better job of spreading bugs than stopping them, he said.

As concern mounts about the scale of the outbreak, carriers from United Airlines Holdings Inc. to Cathay Pacific Airways Ltd. have scrapped thousands of flights to China. Here is an edited transcript from an interview with Powell. IATArepresents about 290 airlines and more than 80% of global air traffic.

Q: Is there a risk of becoming contaminated with the virus on a plane?

A: The risk of catching a serious viral infection on an aircraft is low. The air supply to a modern airliner is very different from a movie theater or an office building. The air is a combination of fresh air and recirculated air, about half each. The recirculated air goes through filters of the exact same type that we use in surgical operating theaters. That supplied air is guaranteed to be 99.97% (or better) free of viruses and other particles. So the risk, if there is one, does not come from the supplied air. It comes from other people.

Q: What are the chances of getting the virus by touching the seats, armrest or any of the objects on a plane?

A: Viruses and other microbes like to live on living surfaces like us. Just shaking hands with somebody will be a greater risk by far than some dry surface that has no biological material on it. The survival of viruses on surfaces isn’t great, so it’s believed that normal cleaning, and then the extra cleaning in the event that someone was discovered to be contagious, is the appropriate procedure. Will people stop getting together inside an airplane? I would respond by asking: Will I stop going to the movies, or sports games, or concerts or conferences? I don’t think so.

Q: What’s important if you are on a plane to ensure you don’t get infected?

A: Hand hygiene -- because contrary to what people think, the hands are the way that these viruses most efficiently spread. Top of the list is frequent hand washing, hand sanitizing, or both. Avoid touching your face. If you cough or sneeze, it’s important to cover your face with a sleeve. Better yet, a tissue to be disposed of carefully, and then sanitizing the hands afterward. Washing your hands and drying them is the best procedure. When that’s not easy to do, alcohol-based sanitizer is a good second-best.

 

Q: Does wearing masks and gloves help prevent infections?

A: First of all, masks. There’s very limited evidence of benefit, if any, in a casual situation. Masks are useful for those who are unwell to protect other people from them. But wearing a mask all the time will be ineffective. It will allow viruses to be transmitted around it, through it and worse still, if it becomes moist it will encourage the growth of viruses and bacteria. Gloves are probably even worse, because people put on gloves and then touch everything they would have touched with their hands. So it just becomes another way of transferring micro-organisms. And inside the gloves, your hands get hot and sweaty, which is a really good environment for microbes to grow.

Continues at

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-02-06/want-to-avoid-virus-forget-face-masks-top-airline-doctor-says

[PeterRS]

For every expert saying one thing, there is another saying the opposite!

Quote

 

According to Emily Landon, medical director of antimicrobial stewardship and infection control at the University of Chicago Medicine, the hospital’s guidelines for influenza define exposure as being within six feet of an infected person for 10 minutes or longer.

“Time and distance matters,” Landon says.

Respiratory illnesses can also be spread through the surfaces upon which the droplets land—like airplane seats and tray tables. How long those droplets last depends both on the droplet and the surface—mucus or saliva, porous or non-porous, for example. Viruses can vary dramatically in how long they last on surfaces, from hours to months.

 

Im not going to touch a planes video screen unless I know it has been properly cleaned with alcohol before I get on board. Same with the arm rests, the seat bels and the tray table. Who knows who has been on that plane and near that seat when it arrived before my departure? I may sneeze into my sleeve or a tissue or handkerchief, but no one  knows who has been in that seat or near it and failed to cover his or her mouth or nose, When I come to Thailand I will use alcohol wipes liberally on the plane. Im taking no chances

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2020/01/how-coronavirus-spreads-on-a-plane/

 

 

[anddy]

3 hours ago, reader said:

From Bloomberg News

How to Avoid Coronavirus on Flights: Forget Masks, Says Top Airline Doctor

Q: Does wearing masks and gloves help prevent infections?

A: First of all, masks. There’s very limited evidence of benefit, if any, in a casual situation. Masks are useful for those who are unwell to protect other people from them. But wearing a mask all the time will be ineffective. It will allow viruses to be transmitted around it, through it and worse still, if it becomes moist it will encourage the growth of viruses and bacteria. 

Continues at

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-02-06/want-to-avoid-virus-forget-face-masks-top-airline-doctor-says

highlighted part seems inaccurate to me. Viruses cannot "grow" by themselves outside the body like bacteria can in a moist environment as envisioned in the statement. Viruses need to be inside a host cell to manipulate it's DNA to have the host cell produce more viruses. So outside the body, no virus growth. Said environment may (or may not) prolong the life span of a given virus outside the body, but they won't "grow".

Correct me if I'm wrong....

[DivineMadman]

26 minutes ago, PeterRS said:

For every expert saying one thing, there is another saying the opposite!

Im not going to touch a planes video screen unless I know it has been properly cleaned with alcohol before I get on board. Same with the arm rests, the seat bels and the tray table. Who knows who has been on that plane and near that seat when it arrived before my departure? I may sneeze into my sleeve or a tissue or handkerchief, but no one  knows who has been in that seat or near it and failed to cover his or her mouth or nose, When I come to Thailand I will use alcohol wipes liberally on the plane. Im taking no chances

I do the same.  I recently came back from Malaysia and the time between last passenger getting off the plane to when we were allowed to board was less than 15 minutes.  Thorough cleaning much less sterilization doesn't seem likely in that period.  (AirAsia).  

Without being unduly cynical, perhaps just worth observing that the doctor quoted in the Bloomberg article has connections with IATA.    

[PeterRS]

1 hour ago, anddy said:

Viruses cannot "grow" by themselves outside the body like bacteria can in a moist environment as envisioned in the statement. Viruses need to be inside a host cell to manipulate it's DNA to have the host cell produce more viruses

I refer to the quote I made earlier - from an expert on viruses. They may not grow but they don't die in the absence of a human cell to latch on to. As she points out they can iive on surfaces other than skin for up to months in some cases

2 hours ago, PeterRS said:

Viruses can vary dramatically in how long they last on surfaces, from hours to months.

But I certainly wouldnt be relying on any advice or quotes made here. Do your own research and make up your own mind. Its your life, after all. In fact, I think this thread can end up being misleading. I suggest it is closed.