Face Masks, Gel etc

[ggobkk]

Reader's last post is from the Daily Mail...repeat the Daily Mail.  The paper that was Fo News before there was Fox News.  It lives to sell papers and advertising and is not known for a sense of balance.  Especially when it can stoke concern.  London would have to be the most at risk city in Europe, not because it has more direct flights to China, but because there are Daily Mail readers in London.

I glance (on line) at multiple news sources, the Mail is one of them.  There was a sense of relief in its articles when the UK finally had a confirmed case of coronavirus allowing the paper to vent at immigration and public health officials for letting it happen.  Sorry, I'm venting...but, it can be difficult to get accurate information without the inflated prose of some sources.

 

 

 

[colmx]

18 hours ago, pong said:

apparently the risk from doorknobs, handrails or whatever touched by many people ls much greater.

Don't forget the beer cooler sleeves, never cleaned from year to year and surely some of the most disgusting germ infested objects in the world... even the towels in the old Eros toilet would be cleaner than them!

[reader]

2 hours ago, ggobkk said:

Reader's last post is from the Daily Mail...repeat the Daily Mail.  The paper that was Fo News before there was Fox News.  It lives to sell papers and advertising and is not known for a sense of balance.  Especially when it can stoke concern.  London would have to be the most at risk city in Europe, not because it has more direct flights to China, but because there are Daily Mail readers in London.

I glance (on line) at multiple news sources, the Mail is one of them.  There was a sense of relief in its articles when the UK finally had a confirmed case of coronavirus allowing the paper to vent at immigration and public health officials for letting it happen.  Sorry, I'm venting...but, it can be difficult to get accurate information without the inflated prose of some sources.

This is a good case in point. It's not exactly "fake" news but it is "manipulated" news. Hence my lead-in note preceding my original post. What first caught my attention was what appears to be highly questionable methods used by a researcher at the University of Southampton to arrive at his conclusions. But no bad deed goes unrewarded: the Daily Mail has the third highest circulation of UK newspapers and triple that of The Times.

I wasn't surprised that the Daily Mail gave it the treatment but I was more than a bit surprised when The Bangkok Post took it off the wire and ran with it. Worse, they used in its weekly Learning from News educational offering. (The original source of the story is listed as Bloomberg News).

From the Bangkok Post

Bangkok ‘most at risk’ for virus spread

https://www.bangkokpost.com/learning/advanced/1849749/bangkok-most-at-risk-for-virus-spread

 

[paulsf]

I’m in Hong Kong at the airport right now.  I just got off a flight from the US.  The entire flight crew wore masks and all wore plastic gloves entire flight.   All Asian passengers wore masks and half wore gloves.  I didn’t see any Western passengers wearing masks.  
 

[ggobkk]

55 minutes ago, paulsf said:

I’m in Hong Kong at the airport right now.  
 

Your comments and observations will be a plus...stay healthy, enjoy your time, and give my best to the guys at Red Dragon - though they have undoubtedly forgotten me already.  The guys at Banana are anticipating your return.  Say hello to mutual friends.

 

 

[reader]

From Bangkok Post

Price control for face masks

The government is putting face masks and alcohol-based hand sanitiser on the state price control list as part of efforts to deal with the deadly virus outbreak.

Commerce Minister Jurin Laksanawisit, who chaired the central committee on prices of goods and services on Monday, said the committee approved inclusion of face masks and alcohol-based hand sanitiser on the list and will propose the move to the cabinet Tuesday.

Once on the price control list, manufacturers, distributors, exporters and importers have to inform the Internal Trade Department the production cost, sales prices, production volume, export and import volume and stocks as wells as price labels.

Those who export more than 500 pieces need to gain prior approval from the department.

Similar measures are applied to hand sanitiser, except for the limit on export volume as there are still adequate quantities for domestic demand.

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/1849949/price-control-for-face-masks

 

[Guest]

5 hours ago, colmx said:

... even the towels in the old Eros toilet would be cleaner than them!

Going in there was brave

[floridarob]

On 2/2/2020 at 11:06 AM, DivineMadman said:

The U.S. Center for Disease Control recommends good old-fashioned washing of hands with soap & water (thoroughly for 20 seconds) over hand sanitizer.  (Hot take - because proper washing cleans off everything.)  The CDC does recommend hand sanitizer when washing with soap & water is not available.  https://www.cdc.gov/handwashing/show-me-the-science-hand-sanitizer.html. World Health Organization puts washing hands on a par with hand sanitizer - except when hands are visibly dirty, in which cash soap and water is the recommended.  https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public. 

By all means use hand sanitizer if you makes you happy, but absence of hand sanitizer shouldn't keep anyone home.  (Personal portable soap is readily available.)

 

Agree, I worked on cruise ships for a stint (lot's of Asian male crew members ) Shit Dr always said , minimum 20 seconds. The hand sanitizer is anti-bacterial, doesn't affect viruses and gives people a false sense of security. Secret is not touching your fingers/hands to you mouth or nose....try it...lol

[spoon]

A google on whether hand sanitizer works against virus came up with this

As we can see even without going into each links, two searches results gave conflicting "fact" about hand washing vs hand sanitizer. One is from the old and "trusted" wikipedia and another is from University research wesbite. Whats clear is doing either of them is better than not doing one at all.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, floridarob said:

. The hand sanitizer is anti-bacterial, doesn't affect viruses and gives people a false sense of security. 

What is your source for this ?    

How do you conclude the source is reliable ?

Here is a US government authority which says Alcohol IS effective against flu viruses.   I'm currently using 70% alcohol hand sanitizer in a spray bottle.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK214356/

[anddy]

I've always been an avid hand-washer and do it quite often even when out and about (like in a mall washroom or restaurant before and after eating). But for when that's not available or not even an option (like public transport) alco sanitizer - regardless of it's real effectiveness against THIS PARTICULAR virus - will definitely better than doing nothing at all. 

I have just purchased a pack of 10 masks from Japan for 350 Baht at one of the Chula pharmacies on Rama 4. One was out of stock, two still had (or had again, presumably temporarily lol). 

I have also for quite some time used a wet wipe to wipe the fingerprint scanner at the airport before using it, simply because I find it rather gross. I don't even know if these wipes contain alcohol (I think not) and if they are effective against any germs at all, but again probably better than nothing (again, my rationale has been "it's gross" not "it's infectious"). Could replace the normal wipes with alco wipes, but couldn't find any (surprise surprise). Can also spray it with the alco spray and wipe off with a tissue. Plenty of options. 

3 hours ago, floridarob said:

Secret is not touching your fingers/hands to you mouth or nose....try it...lol

So true and SO difficult. I must be one of the worst offenders in the planet lol. Incidentally, wearing gloves by passengers as @paulsf reports won't help them in the least if they are still touching the same things around them AND themselves (i.e. face/nose/mouth). 

[spoon]

Wearing gloves idea is u would remove the gloves when there is a need to touch your nose and mouth so your bare hand is clean as gloves have been protecting it before usage. If not, then yes, wearing gloves is pointless.

[DivineMadman]

2 hours ago, spoon said:

As we can see even without going into each links, two searches results gave conflicting "fact" about hand washing vs hand sanitizer. One is from the old and "trusted" wikipedia and another is from University research wesbite. Whats clear is doing either of them is better than not doing one at all.

1.  The Wikipedia article bottom line seems to follow the U.S. CDC.  As far as the general public is concerned, frequent thorough washing with soap and water is recommended.  Hand sanitizer only if that is not available.  For healthcare workers in healthcare situations - hospitals, doctors offices, etc. - then the CDC has a different recommendation - Hand sanitizer all the time + washing with soap and water when dirty/contaminated).  Citing two different studies, the Wikipedia article says " Outside the health care setting evidence to support the use of hand sanitizer over hand washing is poor."  [That doesn't mean it's contra-indicated.  It just means there isn't good support.].   

2.  Nears as I can tell from a bit of research, hand sanitizer kills some viruses but not all.  Not surprising.  Example, apparently sanitizer doesn't kill norovirus - the plague of cruise boats and, in my case, dinner at a nice sushi spot in Greenwich Village.  Had that.  Don't ever want to have it again.  So I'll be sticking with washing with soap and water, but that's just me.  

3.  The U Mich CIDRAP article cites a Japanese study that found hand sanitizer would have to be in contact for 4 minutes to kill influenza A !  So that means if you think Coronavirus might be comparable, you should be applying sufficient hand sanitizer to stay wet and work it on your hands as you sing Karma Chameleon from beginning to end.  

4.  Personally, my advice would be people should take the level of precautions that makes them happy and such that they can go out and enjoy without fear.  

5.  As I joked with Syphion the other day, if the Wuhan University mens gymnastic team comes to town and invites me to an orgy, I'm still going.  Coronavirus be damned.

 

[spoon]

4 minutes ago, DivineMadman said:

3.  The U Mich CIDRAP article cites a Japanese study that found hand sanitizer would have to be in contact for 4 minutes to kill influenza A !  So that means if you think Coronavirus might be comparable, you should be applying sufficient hand sanitizer to stay wet and work it on your hands as you sing Karma Chameleon from beginning to end.  

5.  As I joked with Syphion the other day, if the Wuhan University mens gymnastic team comes to town and invites me to an orgy, I'm still going.  Coronavirus be damned.

 

3. Just minor correction, umn.edu is university of minnesota not u Michigan

5. I would go too, actually would have to fly to wuhan if the event is held there as they cant really fly out now lol

[DivineMadman]

10 minutes ago, spoon said:

3. Just minor correction, umn.edu is university of minnesota not u Michigan

Apologies. Golden Gophers rule!!

[Guest]

When out and about, the only option for washing my hands is public toilets, typically in shopping centres, coffee shops etc.     In many cases it's necessary to touch taps or door handles at the end.   So I still see a role for hand sanitizer.

Perhaps I need to spend more time on these hygiene steps though.

[hank75]

Six more cases in Bangkok today. One case is very sad, a 70 year old driver who ferried a Chinese woman to Hua Hin and is now on a respirator, as he also has tuberculosis to complicate his illness. And a couple who only visited Japan not China, not a good sign they haven’t traced the source of infection yet. 
 

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/1850434/six-more-infections-detected

[vinapu]

1 hour ago, z909 said:

When out and about, the only option for washing my hands is public toilets, typically in shopping centres, coffee shops etc.     In many cases it's necessary to touch taps or door handles at the end.   So I still see a role for hand sanitizer.

Perhaps I need to spend more time on these hygiene steps though.

a bit of exposure to all those nasty germs may actually help us to built some immunity and resistance 

[reader]

Here's another option that is usually available in most pharmacies.

Each small packet contains a single use alcohol-soaked pad that is usually used to wipe skin before an injection. But they have multiple other uses:

(1) cleaning hands

(2) wiping down contact surfaces in plane seats

(3)  cleaning remote control devices  and other surfaces in hotel rooms

(4) quick cleaning of a scratch or laceration

(5) wipe down toilet seat and flush handles

They are commonly sold in small boxes of 100. Easy to stuff some in pocket. Often found among diabetic supplies in pharmacies.

Avoiding known vectors of transmission

Based on anecdotal evidence of how some became victims in Bangkok, being in the presence of an infected person inside a confined space (i.e., tax, van) appears to more common. Several drivers have acquired the virus in this manner. It may be safer to ride with the window open.

If you're traveling in a plane, train or bus, aside from wearing a mask, simple precautions include avoid touching as much as possible and surface (In a plane you can use alcohol gels or pad to wipe down everything you're like to touch with special emphasis on food trays and remotes. I do the metal seat belt releases, and that was before the outbreak).

Others have written about precautions to take when using public toilets and that advice is woth repeating. Avoid touching handles, faucets and as many other surfaces as possible, using tissues.

If we're traveling to Thailand we can't avoid every possible vector unless we're prepared to hole up in our rooms for the duration. I plan to enjoy my next stay but also plan to exercise due caution to avoid the the known ways of common transmission. Yes, I'll be more cautious than in any previous trip (Reuters now reports that Thailand has more coronavirus cases than any nation outside China at 25) but not lose sight of why I'm making the trip in the first place.

 

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, vinapu said:

a bit of exposure to all those nasty germs may actually help us to built some immunity and resistance 

I agree to an extent.   With the "Spanish" flu epidemic of the early 20th century, apparently the death rate amongst healthy mature people was lower than for younger people, as the older people had previous exposure to a similar virus.

We just need some resistance to the coronavirus without the nasty side effects, like nearly dying.

[spoon]

12 minutes ago, z909 said:

I agree to an extent.   With the "Spanish" flu epidemic of the early 20th century, apparently the death rate amongst healthy mature people was lower than for younger people, as the older people had previous exposure to a similar virus.

We just need some resistance to the coronavirus without the nasty side effects, like nearly dying.

Thats exactly how vaccine works. But not going to happen anytime soon, so for the time being, all we can do already spelt out in this thread. Malaysia got two new cases today, one of the is the first malaysian citizen infected by the virus, which he caught when attending an 8 day conference in singapore where some of the attendee are from China. 

[floridarob]

13 hours ago, z909 said:

What is your source for this ?    

How do you conclude the source is reliable ?

Here is a US government authority which says Alcohol IS effective against flu viruses.   I'm currently using 70% alcohol hand sanitizer in a spray bottle.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK214356/

WTF....read what I wrote. He's a ship DR that's been dealing with Viruses(and much more) for a long time, virus vs bacterial gel??? What's my source for this?? Look at what you posted...and read what the link you posted says.

I hardly post here and replies like yours is why.

I'm sure you are much more credible than a Dr......And US Government authority means ZERO these days when you consider who is heading up the various agencies (not talking about Trump either).

You go right along with your 70% alcohol wipes, Hazel.

Consider using a paper towel to touch the door handles and such on your way out, like they advise on ships.......just keep you hands/fingers away from your mouth/nose.

[Guest]

7 hours ago, floridarob said:

You go right along with your 70% alcohol wipes, Hazel.
 

If you post something that contradicts the advice from most reputable sources, why would you expect it to not be challenged ?      

Now the source is clear, I think most can decide for themselves if they will follow advice from major health organisations or your source in the shipping industry.

 

[pong]

This price cntrol is most likely just as effective as any Thai govmt regulation: the stocks disappears behind the counter.

On a more happy and reassuring note: untill now (but lets see this evening) Ive not seen any of the guys we long for in such places with facemasks. Would look a bit silly-near naked in underwear and gogo dancing but with a mask on. Guess they already know what vinapu is his wisdom says: the more exposure to bad germs, the better the resistance. Perhaps we can offer a prize to the first one who spots such a guy.

Staff policy at 7-the one shop about anyone is bound to visit sometime whilst here-is that they have to wear masks.

[spoon]

2 hours ago, pong said:

This price cntrol is most likely just as effective as any Thai govmt regulation: the stocks disappears behind the counter.

On a more happy and reassuring note: untill now (but lets see this evening) Ive not seen any of the guys we long for in such places with facemasks. Would look a bit silly-near naked in underwear and gogo dancing but with a mask on. Guess they already know what vinapu is his wisdom says: the more exposure to bad germs, the better the resistance. Perhaps we can offer a prize to the first one who spots such a guy.

Staff policy at 7-the one shop about anyone is bound to visit sometime whilst here-is that they have to wear masks.

If the boys get infected (even common flu), a sane thing to do is to not come to work at all rather came to work wearing a mask. He will not get any customer anyway, and coming to work will endanger others too.