Face Masks, Gel etc

[reader]

From NY Times

As New Coronavirus Spread, China’s Old Habits Delayed Fight

At critical turning points, Chinese authorities put secrecy and order ahead of openly confronting the growing crisis and risking public alarm or political embarrassment.

WUHAN, China — A mysterious illness had stricken seven patients at a hospital, and a doctor tried to warn his medical school classmates. “Quarantined in the emergency department,” the doctor, Li Wenliang, wrote in an online chat group on Dec. 30, referring to patients.

“So frightening,” one recipient replied, before asking about the epidemic that began in China in 2002 and ultimately killed nearly 800 people. “Is SARS coming again?”

In the middle of the night, officials from the health authority in the central city of Wuhan summoned Dr. Li, demanding to know why he had shared the information. Three days later, the police compelled him to sign a statement that his warning constituted “illegal behavior.”

The illness was not SARS, but something similar: a coronavirus that is now on a relentless march outward from Wuhan, throughout the country and across the globe, killing at least 304 people in China and infecting more than 14,380 worldwide.

The government’s initial handling of the epidemic allowed the virus to gain a tenacious hold. At critical moments, officials chose to put secrecy and order ahead of openly confronting the growing crisis to avoid public alarm and political embarrassment.

A reconstruction of the crucial seven weeks between the appearance of the first symptoms in early December and the government’s decision to lock down the city, based on two dozen interviews with Wuhan residents, doctors and officials, on government statements and on Chinese media reports, points to decisions that delayed a concerted public health offensive.

In those weeks, the authorities silenced doctors and others for raising red flags. They played down the dangers to the public, leaving the city’s 11 million residents unaware they should protect themselves. They closed a food market where the virus was believed to have started, but didn’t broadly curb the wildlife trade.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/01/world/asia/china-coronavirus.html

[Nikom]

The other point is that gel may be better as face masks themselves collect and spreads germs!

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Nikom said:

The other point is that gel may be better as face masks themselves collect and spreads germs!

Well I use gel AND face masks currently.

Some form of facemask is widely recommended in Asia and widely worn by the medical profession all over the world.  So it would be remarkable if there were zero benefit. 

Also the pollution is quite bad at present, so my mask will also help with PM2.5 intake.  Even FFP2 specification is a signigicant benefit.

One 7-Eleven near Sam Yot had a pocket sized alcohol liquid spray.   So I purchased that, followed by a 450ml bottle to refill it at Watsons.    That's the liquid.  I haven't seen any evidence that Watsons or Boots have even stocked hand sanitizing gel.  Which if correct, would be remarkable.   

Still many types of facemask on sale on the street near Sala Daeng.   Mostly of what I suggest is "unknown" quality, but probably better than nothing.   One stall had a load of the FFP2 type usually sold by Mr DIY.

 

[JackR]

Is anyone seriously reconsidering visiting Thailand because of this? I'm planning a trip to Bangkok in the last week of March (not yet booked). This sort of thing wouldn't typically put me off - I'm not partiularly fatalistic - especially given there are only 19 cases as of yet, but with amount of Chinese tourists who visit the gogo bars, I'm wondering if it's safe?

[Boy69]

I will arrive to BKK on Thursday never considered to cancel my trip.

I never reconsidered canceling a trip in the past on other circumstances :the SARS epidemic,the Tsunami in the South and two military coups .

I hope I am not pushing my luck this time...

[Guest]

1 hour ago, JackR said:

Is anyone seriously reconsidering visiting Thailand because of this? I'm planning a trip to Bangkok in the last week of March (not yet booked). This sort of thing wouldn't typically put me off - I'm not partiularly fatalistic - especially given there are only 19 cases as of yet, but with amount of Chinese tourists who visit the gogo bars, I'm wondering if it's safe?

I am in Thailand and am giving zero consideration to leaving early.

On the other hand, if I were in your shoes:

1  If possible, I would defer the decision for 2-4 weeks  Watch how the number of cases in Thailand develops.   Ideally assess the health risk and the opportunity of low prices.

2  If it escalates, be aware of government travel advice and your insurance policy.   If the government advice is to not visit, any standard policy is unlikely to cover you.

If it's not escalating, book the trip.

[Boy69]

36 minutes ago, z909 said:

I am in Thailand and am giving zero consideration to leaving early.

On the other hand, if I were in your shoes:

1  If possible, I would defer the decision for 2-4 weeks  Watch how the number of cases in Thailand develops.   Ideally assess the health risk and the opportunity of low prices.

2  If it escalates, be aware of government travel advice and your insurance policy.   If the government advice is to not visit, any standard policy is unlikely to cover you.

If it's not escalating, book the trip.

What is the current situation at the moment in BKK  ? Do they Walking with the silly masks ? 

[vinapu]

2 hours ago, Boy69 said:

I will arrive to BKK on Thursday never considered to cancel my trip........

I hope I am not pushing my luck this time...

You are not !

there are much bigger chances than if you cancel your trip and stay home you get flu there than contracting coronavirus while crossing Patpong toward Foodland.

In my opinion panic is worse than virus itself , easily treatable with potion I presented few days ago in Beer Bar section on the forum.

[vinapu]

48 minutes ago, z909 said:

I am in Thailand and am giving zero consideration to leaving early.

 

stay there until Brexit is done

[Boy69]

27 minutes ago, vinapu said:

You are not !

there are much bigger chances than if you cancel your trip and stay home you get flu there than contracting coronavirus while crossing Patpong toward Foodland.

In my opinion panic is worse than virus itself , easily treatable with potion I presented few days ago in Beer Bar section on the forum.

As I already said I will arrive to BKK on Thursday and never considered to cancel my trip 

[ggobkk]

Amazon is showing one to two week wait for delivery of most masks.  Not sure if that’s national wait or for the west coast. San Francisco just added a confirmed case to the totals.

Thailand isn’t among the countries that have banned travelers from China. I’m wondering if the forum members resident and semi resident in Thailand are noticing fewer Chinese tourists. 
 

 

[DivineMadman]

51 minutes ago, ggobkk said:

Thailand isn’t among the countries that have banned travelers from China. I’m wondering if the forum members resident and semi resident in Thailand are noticing fewer Chinese tourists. 
 

There are lots of reports in the local press that Phuket, etc., have been hard hit by the cancellation of the group tours.  Overall BKK seems quite busy with people, but with so many people wearing masks hard to tell.  The Charoen Krung Creative District has a bit more been busy with people for Design Week, but that could be mostly locals.

Outside the truly crazy days around the big holidays, most bar guys seem to default into "bar not busy", so I tend to tune them out as unreliable reporters when it comes to the bar scene.  Rumor has it that a forum member/bar chronicler extraordinaire is returning to BKK, so perhaps there'll be an update on the scene in a few days.

[pong]

I estimate that roughly half of people you see on the street are wearing whatever type of masks-mostly though the pretty ineffective layered old-style. Staff srving you are more likely to have it-from the boss. Did not see a single one inside gay palces last weekend. apparently the risk from doorknobs, handrails or whatever touched by many people ls much greater.

As economy goes-suddenly the masks are so wanted that the black market hoards them and resell at much higher prices, like I noted yesterday eve around 21.00 on the street in touristy area.

Those mainland Chinese do hardly now come in (but in the aftermath of their NwYr it a quiet time anyway) but many also cannot go home, due to all cancelled flites.

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Boy69 said:

What is the current situation at the moment in BKK  ? Do they Walking with the silly masks ? 

On the MRT I estimate about 75% wear face masks.  The percentage is lower in less crowded locations.  About 50% on a quiet street.   Both figures were from counting a small sample of people.

The masks are only silly if confirmed to have zero effect.  Also, the Air Quality Index was reading 184 this morning, so pollution is also a reason to wear one, of known specification.

Incidentally, I read that each person is believed to infect 4 on average.  That's a problem.  If HYPOTHETICALLY masks halved the transmission rate, then gels and other measures reduced it further, so each person infects 0.4 people, you now have a disease which will peters out.

[hank75]

pong, while I generally enjoy your forum input, the masks you keep dismissing could also be hospital grade surgical masks which are effective for their specific purposes, not  by any means “old style” and more immediately accessible to most people than the “Europe painter” masks you suggest. Please don’t scare members into assuming their surgical masks are good for nothing. 

[Guest]

57 minutes ago, hank75 said:

pong, while I generally enjoy your forum input, the masks you keep dismissing could also be hospital grade surgical masks which are effective for their specific purposes, not  by any means “old style” and more immediately accessible to most people than the “Europe painter” masks you suggest. Please don’t scare members into assuming their surgical masks are good for nothing. 

On several occasions I have asked Pong to provide evidence supporting suspect claims, for various topics.  None has been provided, so it's difficult to verify accuracy and distinguish between fact and fabrication.

Perhaps I am being unreasonable, but when so much advice is given, it should be accurate.

 

[ggobkk]

3 hours ago, DivineMadman said:

Rumor has it that a forum member/bar chronicler extraordinaire is returning to BKK, so perhaps there'll be an update on the scene in a few days.

That rumor hopefully will be true...I anticipate an increase in a Vietnam to Thailand border crossings. 

[spoon]

26 minutes ago, ggobkk said:

That rumor hopefully will be true...I anticipate an increase in a Vietnam to Thailand border crossings. 

Now that Tet is over, it better be. Though corona virus might be reasons for some to not come back until, knowing that most customer will be chinese. Maybe that member extraordinaire will give a boost of confidence lol

[Jasper]

[10tazione]

https://www.cnet.com/how-to/which-face-masks-protect-against-coronavirus/

 

[DivineMadman]

 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Jasper said:

Thanks for posting that Jasper.   What is the source ?

I compared N95 v FFFP3 standards last year.  Whilst the test methods were not directly comparable, my impression was that FFP3 looked to be more severe.  But that info is on my PC back home.

The following test shows a FFP3 mask has better performance than an N95 one.  

https://academic.oup.com/annweh/article/53/2/117/175361

1  That's for the specific test condition.

2  A product which complies with any standard might far exceed the standard.

The claim that an FFP3 mask removes 80% of dust is strange.  They are supposed to remove over 99% of particles to 0.6 micrometre.

[reader]

NOTE -- I'd take the following with a grain of salt. It appears that the principal criteria of the research was the number of Chinese visitors. It fails to take into consideration screening efficacy, prevention practices of the populace or other mitigating factors.

From The Daily Mail

Bangkok is the city most in danger of deadly coronavirus because it gets so many travellers from China, as scientists warn LA, New York and London are all at risk

• Academics at University of Southampton mapped global threat using travel data
• Bangkok, in Thailand, is most at risk. One case has been confirmed there so far
• Sydney, Melbourne, LA, New York, Dubai and London are in the top 20   
• It comes as European and American citizens stranded in Wuhan wait to escape

Bangkok faces the greatest threat of the killer coronavirus spreading there from China, scientists have warned. 

Academics at the University of Southampton today used travel data to work out which cities around the world are most likely to see cases in the future. 

Los Angeles and New York place in the top 20 and London is more at risk than any other city in Europe, researchers warned. 

Paris was 27th on the list and Frankfurt was 30th, despite cases having been confirmed in France and Germany already.

Bangkok faces the greatest threat of the killer coronavirus spreading there from China, scientists have warned. 

Academics at the University of Southampton today used travel data to work out which cities around the world are most likely to see cases in the future. 

Los Angeles and New York place in the top 20 and London is more at risk than any other city in Europe, researchers warned. 

The report by the University's WorldPop team found Bangkok in Thailand is under the biggest threat, based on the number of air travellers predicted to arrive there from the worst-affected cities in mainland China.  

Paris was 27th on the list and Frankfurt was 30th, despite cases having been confirmed in France and Germany already.

Bangkok faces the greatest threat of the killer coronavirus spreading there from China, scientists have warned. 

Academics at the University of Southampton today used travel data to work out which cities around the world are most likely to see cases in the future. 

Los Angeles and New York place in the top 20 and London is more at risk than any other city in Europe, researchers warned. 

Paris was 27th on the list and Frankfurt was 30th, despite cases having been confirmed in France and Germany already.

Continues with charts at

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-7938847/Bangkok-faces-greatest-threat-killer-coronavirus-LA-New-York-London.html

 

[Jasper]

5 hours ago, z909 said:

Thanks for posting that Jasper.   What is the source ?

I don’t know the source. just picked up from Fake club FB.

It’s just a guidance. 
My understanding is that masks aren’t for your own protection but not to infect others.

[Jasper]

Live infection map
 

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6