Cost of Medical Care in Thailand

[TotallyOz]

I was a bit sick this week and went to hospital as I was dehydrated. I got 2 bags of fluids and meds and saw doctors and had test run. The bill at the end was less than 2k baht. That is just insane. Back in the USA, a trip to the emergency room would be well over 4k USD. This is the place I want to get sick in. Plus, I think I have a date with the nurse.

[speedoo1]

In Denmark and most other European countries that I know of it would be free...

[DivineMadman]

3 minutes ago, speedoo1 said:

In Denmark and most other European countries that I know of it would be free...

I don’t think it is free for visitors (non-residents).

[speedoo1]

For EU citizens for sure (you may have to get reimbursed when you get back to your own country)

[Guest]

1 hour ago, speedoo1 said:

In Denmark and most other European countries that I know of it would be free...

It's NOT free in Denmark and other European countries.      We pay taxes and in return, we get some form of healthcare.    Stuff paid for by my taxes is not free.

I imagine Michael does not pay taxes in Thailand, in which case he's paying a lot less for his healthcare than I pay for mine in the UK (via taxes).

 

In the UK, it's very very difficult to get to see a doctor at our "free" NHS.   That is how it often works with central state control of services.

With a completely different structure, the American healthcare system is widely recognised as a very expensive mess.   The ratio of spending to GDP is way ahead of any other developed country and the result is a lower life expectancy than most developed countries. 

In Thailand, we walk into a hospital, pay modest sums of money and get prompt healthcare.    I like it.

 

[spoon]

And most local probably get free healthcare in thailand as well in government hospital. I once chatted with a boy who come to work in KL and he said he got his prep meds for free but of course he has to do the standard prep testing every 3 month, which is also free for him.

In malaysia, for government hospital, its free for government staff, but dirt cheap for citizens (rm1 for outpatient visit with medication for example). My late uncle who were treated for months for cancer got the final bill of RM500 inclusive of ICU, countless amount of blood transfusion. Even then, because he did not survive, the family dont even need to pay the rm500.

For visitor, its definitely diff. Still cheaper at government hospital but i dont really know how cheap. But we have continuos medical tourists coming here for treatment from indonesia, so at least it is cheaper than that country. And yes, i believe, 2k baht for emergency room visit with 2 bags of IV drip is cheap. 

[2lz2p]

8 hours ago, Michael said:

I was a bit sick this week and went to hospital as I was dehydrated. I got 2 bags of fluids and meds and saw doctors and had test run. The bill at the end was less than 2k baht. That is just insane. Back in the USA, a trip to the emergency room would be well over 4k USD. This is the place I want to get sick in. Plus, I think I have a date with the nurse.

Yes, much less expensive than USA . Also, I have found the care to be quite good over the 17 years I have lived here.  I do have health insurance carried over from my employer upon retirement that covers me in Thailand - Bangkok Hospital Pattaya (BHP) will also direct bill my insurance, which I use for inpatient care. For outpatient, I pay and get reimbursement.

Although care is much less here, it still can run into a costly experience depending on the nature of the illness/injury being treated.  In the early part of this year, I was hospitalized with a serious lung infection -- 5+ weeks in hospital with 4 of those in ICU.  BHP billed my health insurance 2.7 million baht, which was covered 100%.  Had I been paying, I'm guessing that the bill would have been around 1.7 million baht -- this is based on the fact that BHP will bill insurance substantially more than when I pay direct - whereas most hospitals in USA have agreements with insurers that cap costs.  This "guess" is based on the fact that some time ago, for outpatient and 90 day supply of many prescriptions I take regularly, the cashier presented me with a bill for about 80,000 baht and said they were waiting on the "guarantee" from my insurance.  I said "no", I do not want insurance billed direct, I will pay and get reimbursement.  She then redid the bill and the total was about 50,000 baht - important to me as my insurance pays only 85% for outpatient care, thus the 30,000 extra would have cost me 4,500 baht more in out of pocket cost. 

But, another "good" thing about health care here is being able to schedule appointments with specialist doctors.  Generally at BHP,  I can call and get an appointment the next day (sometimes the same day), whereas in USA , it could be anywhere from several days to a few weeks for non-emergencies.  Also, when they do lab or other diagnostic tests, the results are usually obtained within an hour (or a few if MRI or CT scan), whereas when I visited my GP in USA and he ordered a lab test, it was 2 or 3 days to get results.

 

 

[Londoner]

I think it a great shame when Britons spread false information about the NHS on an international forum like this. As a correction, for the vast majority of us, the NHS is one of the greatest achievements of our nation and the envy of world. Particularly the USA. It's why we live longer, on average, than Americans. I appreciate that wealthy Britons who can afford private care don't agree....but "they are few, we are many", as Shelley wrote.

I've been impressed by the quality of care I've received in Thailand....in Bangkok when I required a replacements for a lost blood pressure medication and in Chiang Mai when I had a bad cut on my foot. I found the treatment cheap and effective.

[Nasherich]

Agree 100% about the NHS. Non urgent issues can take a while to be dealt with, but it's always there for serious illnesses. I'm happy to pay my taxes for the NHS to exist and be available for those less fortunate than me (in both health and wealth).

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Londoner said:

I think it a great shame when Britons spread false information about the NHS on an international forum like this. As a correction, for the vast majority of us, the NHS is one of the greatest achievements of our nation and the envy of world. Particularly the USA. It's why we live longer, on average, than Americans. I appreciate that wealthy Britons who can afford private care don't agree....but "they are few, we are many", as Shelley wrote.

If there are any Britons spreading false information about the NHS here, perhaps you would like to quote the false information and explain why you think it is false ?

As for the NHS being the envy of the world,  do you have any evidence for this ?    Perhaps that's the false information ?  

Overall if you check the data,  the survival results and quality of service do not seem to match up to comparable European countries, despite a similar proportion of GDP being spent on healthcare.   Giving people a choice of state or private insurance seems to work quite well in certain European countries.      Quite a few Brits envy them.

[Londoner]

....those that can afford it. The thing about the NHS which makes it the envy of the world is that it supports all citizens. Like private education, private health care is there to benefit the wealthy.  I hope that the next Labour Government abolishes both.

Interestingly, life expectancy in the US is  front page news today. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Londoner said:

The thing about the NHS which makes it the envy of the world is that it supports all citizens. Like private education, private health care is there to benefit the wealthy.  I hope that the next Labour Government abolishes both.

Do you have any evidence of the world envying the NHS ?     Perhaps that's just how left of centre UK voters imagine the situation to be.

Many European countries provide healthcare for all, often to an equal or higher standard than the NHS, whilst having systems which have the alternatives of private and public insurance.   They benefit from competition & consumer choice.   The healthcare outcomes seem better than the UK or the US.

I've seen no evidence of them envying the NHS and there would be no reason for them to do so, other than perhaps political ideology amongst a minority of them.   

On average, I very much doubt they would envy the NHS, but if you can provide evidence of this, I would be pleased to read it.    

 

[vinapu]

I need to join chorus praising affordability of health care in Thailand. Few trips ago I had 2 fillings to be done and fixing partially broken teeth  coupled with particularly good deal on airfare. Savings on these three  procedures compared to what I'd pay at home paid for 2/3 of that airfare. Long Live Thai Smile on Silom !

[billyhouston]

"The NHS is the envy of the world" is simply a socialist mantra, trotted out time and time again....  ad nauseam. It is nothing of the sort; it's a sclerotic, bureaucratic nightmare which has been, very successfully I might say, weaponised by successive socialist governments. This has made it politically impossible to effect the drastic changes necessary to drag it, screaming and shouting, from the middle of the 20th century and into the 21st.

Private medicine in the UK is not just for the 'rich'; it's for those who choose (socialists don't like choice) to prioritise their health over things like alcohol, smoking, 65" TVs, Sky TV subscriptions and all the rest. Of course, the same socialists want to abolish both private medicine and private education rather than bringing the state provisiion up to the same standard. Amusingly were we to remain in the European Union, and I'm one of the northern 'oiks' included in the majority who voted to leave, they would not, as I understand it, be allowed to abolish either.

To bring this back ot the original topic, a few days before leaving UK I discovered that my eye pressures had taken a sudden turn for the worse and my consultant of 20 years (I value continuity of care, unavailable on the NHS) advised that I have urgent SLT. This is a procedure which fires a laser at the trabecular mesh with a view to opening it and thus reducing the intraocular pressures. I declined on the grounds that I could have it done here if needed, which she thought might not be possible. After much procrastination, I went to the hospital I normally use here in Chiang Mai and had the pressures checked and the optic nerve inspected. The cost, doctor and hospital included, was Bht 520. My pressures had returned to normal as, for various reasons, I thought they would. 

My UK consultant charges £220 for a first consultation and £125 for a follow up, so I find the cost of health care in Thailand very reasonable

[TotallyOz]

Had to go to Bumrumgrad today for Vertigo. (I'm getting old)

I saw 2 doctors and one specialist and got some medication. Cost 1900 baht for all. The cost of the medicine in the USA.

 

[vinapu]

1 hour ago, Michael said:

Had to go to Bumrumgrad today for Vertigo. (I'm getting old)

I saw 2 doctors and one specialist and got some medication. Cost 1900 baht for all. The cost of the medicine in the USA.

 

but in USA you stand a chance of meeting Donald Trump

[TotallyOz]

4 minutes ago, vinapu said:

but in USA you stand a chance of meeting Donald Trump

I have met him in the past. I wasn't impressed then and that was the 90's when he was king of NYC. Now, he wants to be king of the USA. However, you are right. If I were in the USA in a hospital I might meet him as the docs would be trying to get all the Republican Senators out of his ass. That has to be one big fucking hole.

[gerefan]

 An example of our wonderful NHS.

Over the last year I had been to see my NHS doctor two or three times about passing blood. Each appointment took over a month to schedule. They were probably about 3 or 4 months apart. Each time he said to come back when the bleeding started again as he suspected piles. Of course with the months delay getting an appointment this was impossible as the bleeding only lasted a day or two.

In the meantime I had  my other regular blood tests and got a text message from the doctors to make a “non urgent” appointment. When I phoned and made this appointment,5 weeks hence, I asked what it was for. The reply was a prescription review. I thought no more of it and eventually attended late September.

When I went in the Staff Sister, who I had to see as there was no doctor available, but who can do anything a doctor can do, was busy looking at my records. She said the blood tests  indicated Anaemia and said I needed a camera job to see if I had internal bleeding. She said she would fast track me. I asked about the prescription review and was met with a blank stare.

Next day I got a call for an Endoscopy and was immediately told I had Colon cancer and that it was blocking my Colon. So much so that the consultant couldn’t get past it with the camera. CT scans, blood tests, briefings, and a meeting with my team followed immediately. I had  another meeting with my consultant the following Friday and he said he would operate the next Wednesday but, if I had any pain at all to come in over the weekend, as I was very close to having my intestines burst because of the blockage. He said he would operate there and then if required.

After the operation I was released from hospital the following week. Total time from the edopscopy to hospital release was 12 days. Thank god it hadn’t spread.

The treatment by anyone higher than Staff sister was good. By hospital doctors and Consultants outstanding. By general nursing staff, cooks, medication dispensers and other lowly paid staff appalling. None were even English.

The food was inedible and friends bought in hot soup and other beverages. My first proper evening meal, the day after the operation,was a banana, a sandwich and a small saucer of crisps....

So, overall was I impressed with my NHS doctor his staff and most of the hospital staff? Well no, they bloody nearly killed me.

 

[Guest]

9 hours ago, gerefan said:

 An example of our wonderful NHS.

......Each time he said to come back when the bleeding started again as he suspected piles.

.......I had Colon cancer and that it was blocking my Colon......

So, overall was I impressed with my NHS doctor his staff and most of the hospital staff? Well no, they bloody nearly killed me.

 

(Above summarized)

This is fairly familiar.  

1  Wait ages for an appointment.  

2  Then see some overpaid quack who makes a GUESSED diagnosis, rather than referring you for tests so that he can make a scientific diagnosis based on data.

3  Doctor fails to diagnose some very serious ailment due to his incompetence.

I've seen exactly the same thing with my immediate relatives.   

For one of them the 2 GPs failed to diagnose cancer.   Fortunately he eventually saw a foreign doctor who was new to the NHS and requested the necessary tests.

For another immediate relative, they failed to diagnose a major blood issue.  When this relative eventually saw a doctor who requested tests, the relative ended up spending 6 weeks in hospital.

A third immediate relative was fobbed off by doctors, then when the relative saw another doctor, the relative was immediately rushed off to hospital  by ambulance for an emergency operation.

That's all 3 immediate relatives, so 100% bad experiences at the GP level.  They are satisfied with hospital treatment, once they get past the overpaid and ineffective GPs.   (Firing half of them and employing AI could be a massive improvement in cost & quality).

 

Then I had a friend with a health issue and the doctor put him on some drugs with nasty side effects.   After a few years, he was doubting the diagnosis, but being a state controlled monopoly, they refused to let him change to a different GP practice.   After much arguing, he got his way.   The new doctor made a different diagnosis & he was cured fully after a short course of antibiotics.    Incidentally, I believe the NHS does not allow you to change GP practice, but of course they still have the same ****ed up state controlled mentality.

All of this incompetence is one reason why I'm quite prepared to pay for a medical check up in Thailand every few years.

 

All I'm asking for is a model where we can choose between the state insurance or private insurance, with some level of choice in where we go.   Rather like Germany.     With such competition, the NHS would eventually have to get it's act together.

 

However, the pro NHS lobby would like to keep the NHS monopoly and deny the rest of us the choice. 

 

I haven't seen a good argument in favour of the NHS monopoly on this board. 

We have had an accusation of "fake news" from Londoner, but he has declined to state which comment was the fake news.

He's also said the "NHS is the envy of the world", but has declined to provide any evidence to show it is.     

To have any credibility, it's sometimes necessary to back up assertions with evidence.   Still waiting.....

 

Finally, I always try to study evidence with an open mind and make conclusions based on fact and data.  With the intention that I modify my views if the information changes.   I think this leads to better decision making than, for example,  believing Labour party propaganda without going out and checking data & figuring out what works and what doesn't.

[billyhouston]

Google flagged this up:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/nov/29/revealed-nhs-plans-to-ration-34-unnecessary-tests-and-treatments

.

[thaiophilus]

On 11/28/2019 at 7:38 AM, billyhouston said:

 it's a sclerotic, bureaucratic nightmare which has been, very successfully I might say, weaponised by successive socialist governments.

Hmm. You may be right  about the bureaucratic nightmare, but thanks to Hotelling's Law, Britain hasn't had a socialist government in the last 40 years.

 

[gerefan]

3 hours ago, billyhouston said:

Google flagged this up:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/nov/29/revealed-nhs-plans-to-ration-34-unnecessary-tests-and-treatments

That article said...” The Guardian has seen a list of 34 diagnostic tests and treatments that in future patients will only be able to get in exceptional circumstances as part of a drive to save money and relieve the pressure on the NHS.”

Point is NHS doctors only get a very basic grounding of the multitude of ailments and diseases during their training. My Cancer consultant was not at all surprised my GP missed my cancer as they only spent a few days with the Cancer specialists in their training. They then had to go on to other departments, and there are many,  in order to finish their training course in the time allocated.

So it seems to me that these tests are in fact required if GP are expected to correctly diagnose patients problems.

3 hours ago, billyhouston said:

.

 

[vinapu]

My guess is billions in Africa , Latin America and Asia would be happy to partake in all those NHS's patients problems

[Guest]

8 hours ago, vinapu said:

My guess is billions in Africa , Latin America and Asia would be happy to partake in all those NHS's patients problems

That is certain.     For a sense of perspective, we are lucky to be born in wealthy countries and in the second half of the 20th century, when so many medical treatments are available.

However, as a developed G7 country, we should compare UK healthcare with other developed countries with similar healthcare spending.   

Perhaps EU countries, Singapore & Japan.  These certainly include some examples of good healthcare, without subjecting the population to the whims of a Marxist state monopoly.   

[gerefan]

On 12/2/2019 at 8:03 AM, vinapu said:

My guess is billions in Africa , Latin America and Asia would be happy to partake in all those NHS's patients problems

...and pay for it like we have had to?