LET FREEDOM (of expression here) RING

[12is12]

Hi All,

I had no intention of responding to criticisms regarding my reports, because they were posted by holier-than-thou self-appointed PC purists. I changed my mind after reading those who rose to defend me - Jasper, Vinapu, Daydreamer (thank you guys!). They reminded me there are some here (too many?), who avoid posting at all or mentioning certain things, in order not to incur the wrath of these censors. Guys.....ignore them!!!

What do you care if others criticize or attack what you had posted, in an impolite, rude, elitist, condescending, self-absorbed and/or contrary manner? Even if you would care under normal circumstances, here your anonymity is a foolproof shield.

These negative souls are not worth it, and the forum is poorer for your silence.

 

One of them advised "respect all boys equally". Wow, what an epiphany!   I respect all boys as human beings equal to me. I do NOT respect all boys equally as professionals, just as I don't respect doctors and lawyers equally.

Another accused me of elitism because I referred to " 'lesser' clubs". I had originally apostraphied the word "lesser", but that was actually a mistake. Lesser clubs are first of all a matter not of opinion but of fact: they don't offer shows, they offer fewer boys, and they even charge less. They ARE "lesser". Which, of course, doesn't mean that their staff or patrons are lesser persons. Enough with this PC equality BS!!

A third chided me for reporting that a boy I had recommended had a small dick. Offing forum members are interested also / mainly / only in sexual features, unlike my detractor who claims to prioritize "character and mannerism". I call on all of those sharing my desire to read here also useful recommendations, to include such details.

Finally, I was admonished for giving an "excessive" 3000 tip for a short-term session with Watt. I had since explained why I did that, but more important - as one of my defenders had already written - IT'S  NONE  OF  YOUR  BUSINESS.

Dear colleagues, don't let them silence you. Ignore their rants. Don't respond, certainly not directly, and on no account mention their nicks. Just let them whither away.

 

For those who are interested in offering CONSTRUCTIVE criticism, a PM would be both more polite personally and more pleasant groupwise.....

Happy hunting

(-:

 

[reader]

Freedom of expression is not a license to write a post that could haunt a young man in perpetuity.

At best you demonstrated poor judgement. At worst, you showed wanton disregard for his future.

As a poster in your thread about Watt observed, you remain anonymous while your off is exposed by name, workplace, photo and personal sexual information.

Please tell us—in the pursuit of freedom of expression—did you tell Watt you intended to tell the public that he was a great cocksucker?

Hope you find that sufficiently constructive, 12.

[TotallyOz]

1 hour ago, 12is12 said:

Finally, I was admonished for giving an "excessive" 3000 tip for a short-term session with Watt. I had since explained why I did that, but more important - as one of my defenders had already written - IT'S  NONE  OF  YOUR  BUSINESS.
 

Your money, your business. This forum and other gay forums are known for coming down hard to big spenders. Partly, it is to ensure they don't have to pay more IMHO. But, I have never found in Thailand or other places, boys who did not know the difference between someone generous and someone who is a regular or someone who lives here. They know and they act accordingly. Tip any amount you feel and never regret helping a guy with money. They need it. They deserve it and if you have it, I find it admirable you are willing to share. They shared something great with you and to share something back to them I think is an amazing thing.

[DivineMadman]

If any of us posts here, then it seems to me comments - negative, positive, relevant, irrelevant, etc. - are fair game. Same for comments on the comments, and so on. Freedom of expression is great, but it cuts each and every way. Nothing wrong with a little argie bargie. 

[Boy69]

3 hours ago, reader said:

Freedom of expression is not a license to write a post that could haunt a young man in perpetuity.

At best you demonstrated poor judgement. At worst, you showed wanton disregard for his future.

As a poster in your thread about Watt observed, you remain anonymous while your off is exposed by name, workplace, photo and personal sexual information.

Please tell us—in the pursuit of freedom of expression—did you tell Watt you intended to tell the public that he was a great cocksucker?

Hope you find that sufficiently constructive, 12.

Well said !

When members disguised the boys identify there is no harm done they can write whatever they want but when a forum member post a picture of a boy and attach to it a harmful observation about his dick size it's completely discussting I want to know how the OP would feel if a forum member here made sex with him and post a picture of the OP with a comment that his dick is small ???!!!

Regarding the tip he paid some forum members think it's too high so what ?  When you are posting how much you tip a boy you have to expect that some will make a comment about it this is a freedom of expression ! What the OP expect a silence and self censorship of forum members about this ? is it a freedom of expression ?

 

[alex303]

9 hours ago, 12is12 said:

Another accused me of elitism because I referred to " 'lesser' clubs". I had originally apostraphied the word "lesser", but that was actually a mistake. Lesser clubs are first of all a matter not of opinion but of fact: they don't offer shows, they offer fewer boys, and they even charge less. They ARE "lesser". Which, of course, doesn't mean that their staff or patrons are lesser persons. Enough with this PC equality BS!!

Ok no problem i'll bite...just out of interest...as your comments above are clearly aimed at me...how many times have you visited 1) Thailand 2) Bangkok & 3) Silom to form these balanced & detailed opinions of these clubs? 

You've decided to set yourself up as source of knowledge for other newbies but the danger is your giving out BAD ADVICE.  Your idea of a so called 'lesser club'...after the grand total of 1 visit to Silom may not necessarily align with others, your content to bang on about freedom...try giving out balanced reports without dishing clubs that you've barely spent a few hours in.

 

[vinapu]

small dick but  it managed to create great commotion  so clearly nothing wrong with small dicks

[hanan]

A few years ago I joined this site with the main reason to be able to view the wonderful photos in the trip reports that were posted by many different users. Back then people posted half naked photos of boys they've met, and it was exciting to both read about their adventures and also see photos of the boys.

Nowadays with the many self proclaimed sharia police on the gay boards there are hardly anyone even posting dressed photos of the boys they've met during their trips. Scared of all the "moral condemnation" by the "experts" that tell them they have been to explicit in their details in the reports, and that the "white knights" will run and look for the boy and show him what has been written and posted.

[reader]

7 hours ago, hanan said:

A few years ago I joined this site with the main reason to be able to view the wonderful photos in the trip reports that were posted by many different users. Back then people posted half naked photos of boys they've met, and it was exciting to both read about their adventures and also see photos of the boys.

Nowadays with the many self proclaimed sharia police on the gay boards there are hardly anyone even posting dressed photos of the boys they've met during their trips. Scared of all the "moral condemnation" by the "experts" that tell them they have been to explicit in their details in the reports, and that the "white knights" will run and look for the boy and show him what has been written and posted.

Gee, Hanan, so sorry to hear that you’re disappointed because enough members aren’t filling your need for titillation by posting salacious photos of their offs. Since this was the main reason you joined the board I figured surely that you must be now contributing half naked pics of your offs. But guess what, it seems to be a one-way street with you. You’re content to leave the heavy lifting to others.

If you are really serious about viewing sexually stimulating pics, there’s a members only forum on the board that contains some quality stuff. Not good enough?

You might consider actually offing some guys yourself and posting about your adventures instead of living vicariously through the efforts of others.

You say you want explicit details of what members do with their offs along with photos. Fair enough. So I assume it’s OK with you if a boy posted your photo and described what you did along with details of your body.

 

 

[Finnseventy]

Ah now lads, less of that lads,

Every gay does not have to play the queen,

Take it easy, calm down lads,

Some things best left unsaid, unseen.

[Guest]

I'm all for freedom of expression, as long as it's polite & people endeavour to post accurately (which I believe you have been doing).

Freedom of expression works both ways though.   

If someone writes a trip report and posts it on a public board, they should expect people to comment on it, as long as the tone of the comments is polite.

You have to remember that some newbies read the forum and if, for example,  someone is tipping above/below the perceived norm, it is probably helpful if this is pointed out.    In my view, identifying this is OK, as long as they stop short of telling you what to do.

Ultimately, if I report details of my holidays on a public forum, I expect some polite comment on that.   If I don't want comment, I don't post the report.

 

[hanan]

2 hours ago, reader said:

Gee, Hanan, so sorry to hear that you’re disappointed because enough members aren’t filling your need for titillation by posting salacious photos of their offs.

 

 

Thank you for your consideration But I'm still disappointed of the likes of you that have made some old posters refrain from posting and scared away god knows how many new posters.

[numazu]

Pardon me if i am naive (and sometimes I am), but wasn't it mentioned that the boy in question was an aspiring flight attendant? If the airline company discovers that he was once a money boy, would it affect his chances for employment? Or is Thailand progressive enough to get over these kinds of things?. Or is this website enough of a private safe space that it wouldn't matter? I honestly don't know.

I've wondered about this since the advent of the viral popularity of the Moonlight live feeds. Are the boys featured in Moonlight recognized and branded as Money Boys forever, and thus stigmatized as such with regards to future employment ? I'd imagine Thailand would be progressive about these things but I am not sure.

[Boy69]

8 hours ago, numazu said:

Pardon me if i am naive (and sometimes I am), but wasn't it mentioned that the boy in question was an aspiring flight attendant? If the airline company discovers that he was once a money boy, would it affect his chances for employment? Or is Thailand progressive enough to get over these kinds of things?. Or is this website enough of a private safe space that it wouldn't matter? I honestly don't know.

I've wondered about this since the advent of the viral popularity of the Moonlight live feeds. Are the boys featured in Moonlight recognized and branded as Money Boys forever, and thus stigmatized as such with regards to future employment ? I'd imagine Thailand would be progressive about these things but I am not sure.

I am pretty sure boys who are working at the sex venues and the porn  industry know the risks and take it into consideration.

[reader]

11 hours ago, hanan said:

Thank you for your consideration But I'm still disappointed of the likes of you that have made some old posters refrain from posting and scared away god knows how many new posters.

Look through recent pages of posts and you’ll see many trip and off reports from veterans and newbies alike. None, of course, from you.

 

[TotallyOz]

15 hours ago, z909 said:

I'm all for freedom of expression, as long as it's polite & people endeavour to post accurately (which I believe you have been doing).

Freedom of expression works both ways though.   

If someone writes a trip report and posts it on a public board, they should expect people to comment on it, as long as the tone of the comments is polite.

You have to remember that some newbies read the forum and if, for example,  someone is tipping above/below the perceived norm, it is probably helpful if this is pointed out.    In my view, identifying this is OK, as long as they stop short of telling you what to do.

Ultimately, if I report details of my holidays on a public forum, I expect some polite comment on that.   If I don't want comment, I don't post the report.

 

I agree with your sentiment. And, it would be nice if all comments were polite and kind. However, that is also not the real world. I was in a shop last week and someone called me fat. My feelings could have been hurt (but they weren't as I have stayed in Thailand too long) but I knew that was an option when I tried to buy clothes.

I love trip reports and I know some get upset with what one person posts or how the post or what they say or show. I am just glad they are contributing and hope others will do the same. Having posted for many years I was berated a few hundred times for posting too much information and talking about expensive hotels, tips, etc.  Over the years I just gloss over what I post and try not to tell people how much I tip or pay for hotels. However, I always know that some will be upset with whatever direction I take. And, I am OK with taking the criticism for the good of the community. Sure, it would be nice if everyone loved me, or at least liked me, or even ignored what I post they don't like. But, that doesn't happen in real life or on message boards.

[vinapu]

2 hours ago, Michael said:

.... I was in a shop last week and someone called me fat......

you mean guy in your avatar isn't you?

[TotallyOz]

20 minutes ago, vinapu said:

you mean guy in your avatar isn't you?

LOL That is my first long term boyfriend. He was from Brazil and this was in the 1990's. I took this with a 35mm camera on the top of a ladder in our living room. Funny things, years later, I found the photo being used as a flyer in Rio as an ad for a gay disco. I was stunned.

[TotallyOz]

2 minutes ago, Michael said:

LOL That is my first long term boyfriend. He was from Brazil and this was in the 1990's. I took this with a 35mm camera on the top of a ladder in our living room. Funny things, years later, I found the photo being used as a flyer in Rio as an ad for a gay disco. I was stunned.

Here is a better view.

[reader]

No one can say you won’t go to any height to get an artfully composed photo.

And totally unidentifiable. Unless the stems are permanently attached. 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Michael said:

Having posted for many years I was berated a few hundred times for posting too much information and talking about expensive hotels, tips, etc. 

I've posted for many years and don't recall you being BERATED for talking about expensive hotels or flying at the front of the plane.    Perhaps it's just a difference in the way you & I interpret people's posts.   I would only consider it berating only if they are telling you the hotel is way too expensive and suggesting you shouldn't waste YOUR money there.   That's berating and is way out of order.  I don't see many posts like that.

When they just say it's an expensive hotel, or they cannot themselves justify flying in first class, it's not, in my view berating.

I hope you carry on posting about life in the Marriot and at the front of the plane.     Whilst I cannot justify business class flights for myself, I certainly hope to get to that point.

 

Incidentally, the most obvious examples of berating I see on forums is where people suggest tipping a boy only 500 baht.  In such circumstances they tend to receive strong advice to pay 1000 or stay at home.     Hopefully I stop short of berating people and instead tend to suggest 1000 is an accepted minimum for full service.  

[TotallyOz]

50 minutes ago, z909 said:

I've posted for many years and don't recall you being BERATED for talking about expensive hotels or flying at the front of the plane.    Perhaps it's just a difference in the way you & I interpret people's posts.   I would only consider it berating only if they are telling you the hotel is way too expensive and suggesting you shouldn't waste YOUR money there.   That's berating and is way out of order.  I don't see many posts like that.

Yep, it was berating and I used the word properly. And in the beginning I was called a fake and a moron. Both on here and SGT. It was long ago and under the GayThailand screen name. But, I know the difference between the way people interpret things and facts.

Thanks for saying to continue. I have done so but don't travel as much as I did when I first came here. I even remember one dude who took off an entire bar of boys for a night (gaggle I believe was the word). And, another one who had 7-9 guys living with him for a year or two. But, as I get older I can't remember if they were the same or different men or if it was just fake news. 

[anddy]

3 hours ago, Michael said:

Here is a better view.

Stunner. Goes to show why our long-missed writer @numazu loves going to Brazil so much these days. 

[eurasian]

4 hours ago, Michael said:

Here is a better view.

wow ... very very handsome and a wonderful pic

[numazu]

5 hours ago, anddy said:

Stunner. Goes to show why our long-missed writer @numazu loves going to Brazil so much these days. 

Quite the lovely photo @Michael, and you're right @anddy LOL. I am itching to go back soon, if only to see the BF.

You should see my cellphone photo gallery. It's filled with tons of photos like this, of guys like this, without the flowers though LOL.

9 hours ago, Michael said:

Funny things, years later, I found the photo being used as a flyer in Rio as an ad for a gay disco. I was stunned.

LOL, I hope they compensated you at least for using your own photo.