Bullet trains running by 2023, hopefully

[reader]

From CNN

Bangkok (CNN) — After years of delays and much debate, it's finally happening. Bullet trains are coming to Thailand. 

 

With one project under construction, another approved and others being considered, many in the country are questioning whether high-speed rail (HSR) will be the right fit for the country. 

 

"This is going to be a big change for Thailand," says Thanet Sorat, an adviser to Thailand's Senate Committee on Transportation, vice president of shipping company, V-Serve, and president of the Thai Authorized Customs Brokers Association. 

 

He hopes to see sleek trains pinballing around the country at 155 mph (250 kph) within five years. 

 

Both projects currently in the works will employ Chinese HSR technology. Though Thailand declined Chinese loans, the projects are considered a part of the Belt and Road Initiative (BRI), a plan that aims to connect China to the rest of Asia through new transport infrastructure.

 

Expected to open in 2021 to replace Bangkok's 103-year-old Hualamphong Station, a massive new rail hub in the city's Bang Sue district will serve passengers using both HSR and the country's existing railway network, which is being upgraded from single to dual track. 

 

Tied to this, on October 24, a conglomerate led by Thailand's CP Group signed a contract with the State Railway of Thailand (SRT) for the construction of a HSR line linking Bangkok's two airports, Suvarnabhumi and Don Mueang, to three eastern provinces. 

 

It will operate in addition to the existing Airport Rail Link, an elevated train that connects Suvarnabhumi to Bangkok's metro system.

The planned line, beginning from Don Mueang then passing through Bang Sue, will also stop at Makkasan in central Bangkok before proceeding to Chachoengsao, Chonburi, Sriracha and Pattaya, a major tourist destination located 75 miles (120 km) south of Bangkok on the Gulf of Thailand. 

 

Expected to begin service in 2024, the 137-mile line will terminate at U-Tapao Airport, outside of Pattaya in Rayong province.

 

Continues with photos

https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/thailand-bullet-trains/index.html

High-speed rail: Mechanics check on a high-speed train in Xi'An, China. The country is currently assisting Thailand with its own high-speed rail (HSR) projects. One line is already under construction, while another has been approved.

[vinapu]

7 stops on 200 km distance ,not much space to use that 250 / km speed

[faranglaw]

3 hours ago, vinapu said:

7 stops on 200 km distance ,not much space to use that 250 / km speed

I think you are confusing two different things. The article is not quite clear, but it seems the Don Muang Line to Downtown Bangkok and on to Pattaya is not the same as the bullet train, which will serve the whole country from the Lao border town of Nong Khai through Udon and Korat down to Bangkok.  At least, that’s my half informed understanding of it. 

[pong]

its all very, very confusing and also seems to change every time a new plan gets announced.

the site skyscrapercity -. railways -> TH likely has best current info, it describes rail 9and also other main) infra structure works in this world.

Oldest project was the mainly chinese backed continuation of their own built line south from Kunming, to lao border (operating) across lao (uConstr.) and then to BKk and aimed at even reaching Singapore via malaysia- MY withdrew when they ousted the corrupt former PM. T my best current knowledge the Thai have now decided the first strecth only Bkk_Khorat but at lower cost, possibly meaning also lower speed, the missing link from Kh to lao still to be decided upon.

This link is the  3 airports to connect with BKK and Pattaya, on normal gauge and partly already there (but has to be upgraded) Airport LInk and nearly finished red line from end of ARL via new giant station to DMK. Besides slower all-stops there should be a few fast trains (bypassing, as was also the case with the ill-fated airport express when ARL staretd) and much higher fares too-it now runs in big losses.

250 is reachable for trains from distance of 40/50 kms, between stops f.e. BKK-airp to PTY nonstop.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, vinapu said:

7 stops on 200 km distance ,not much space to use that 250 / km speed

In Japan, the fast Shinkansen only stop at the major stations.   The minor stations all have 4 tracks, so the slow trains pull off onto the outer tracks and the fast ones go through at 200 mph.    This works well.

Of course, Japan has mastered the art of running public transport, whilst Thailand tries quite hard to screw it up at every possible opportunity.

Thailand COULD do the same as Japan.    Run fast trains and slow trains.  Make sure they have extremely convenient connections to the city public transport systems, with short walk ways and integrated ticketing.   Run all the trains on time.  

Then put the road tolls or fuel taxes up to encourage people onto the trains.

 

Based on current experience, what Thailand is likely to do is:

1  Treat each project as an opportunity to pour the maximum amount of concrete possible (presumably with some backhanders paid).    As an example, the waste of concrete on the line from Korat to Khon Kaen is remarkable.    Enormous bridges for minor road crossings over the rail line, when a bridge of 30% of the size would do just as well.   Then the new Khon Kaen station is some huge elevated construction that could probably cope with about 2000 passengers.   20 got off the train when I arrived in Khon Kaen.

2  Design stations that do not interconnect with other public transport properly (long convoluted walks, about 3x the necessary distance).

3  Have a different ticket for each rail line

4  Botch the service, then cut it back when demand is below expectations

5  Have insufficient carriages

 

Despite all this, I suspect the rail line will be a competitive option for getting from BKK to Pattaya and possibly a very good option from DMK to Pattaya.

 

[macaroni21]

I won't swear to the truth of this story, because it came to me secondhand. Nonetheless I am going to repeat it   The Chinese also built a spanking new rail line connecting Addis Ababa to Djibouti, giving landlocked Ethiopia an outlet to the sea. But it still runs in fits and starts, as told to me by none other than an Ethiopian friend. Nothing wrong with the technology; during trial runs, it worked fine. Once the Ethiopians took over, things fell apart. Trains couldn't run on time for a multitude of reasons, not least of which was simply that the full crew simply didn't report to work on time! Not just the crew on the trains or at the terminii, but the loading/unloading crew at midway stops, delaying or messing up the loading and unloading and thus the overall schedule. My Ethiopian friend's point was that technology is only half the story. Management and societal culture can defeat the best of technology.

The Thais may not be as bad as the Ethiopians, but they're certainly not in the same league as the Japanese, Chinese, Germans or Koreans.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, macaroni21 said:

Management and societal culture can defeat the best of technology.

Absolutely.    To put it in perspective, the transport in Thailand is way ahead of Laos, where a long distance bus can waste way over an hour pfaffing around trying to collect a small cardboard box that they are also delivering.    No one seems to mind or care, as in Laos, they don't EXPECT the bus to follow any kind of reliable timetable.   Of course, the flip side is  you can walk up to the road anywhere and any domestic bus is almost guaranteed to stop and pick you up.

I don't have high hopes for the new train service in Laos, unless of course the Chinese retain operational control of the line.  You would hope they learn the lesson from Ethiopia.  If the Chinese are lending the money for the project, there is a financial incentive to ensure the service is good enough to earn a return on capital.    It should be obvious that big cultural adjustments are needed for a rail service in Laos to run on time.

 

Getting back to Thailand, currently dozens of buses connect Thai cities to Bangkok, despite competing rail connections.   The buses really shouldn't be able to compete with a fast & punctual rail service.  Although Thai railways are not that bad, I suspect SRT will probably manage to partially screw up any high speed service, therefore depriving it of potential business, just as they do on the current lines.  

What I suspect they need is driverless trains that run on time, whether or not a driver shows up.    Better still, don't let SRT near the new line and instead sell an operating franchise to JR or some other professional rail outfit.

 

 

[vinapu]

14 hours ago, reader said:

Continues with photos

https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/thailand-bullet-trains/index.html

 

whoever wrote that article is certainly not aware about Swampy-Pattaya bus option being in operation ( author directs arrivals heading to Pattaya by bus to Ekkamai ) 

7 hours ago, z909 said:

Then the new Khon Kaen station is some huge elevated construction that could probably cope with about 2000 passengers.   20 got off the train when I arrived in Khon Kaen.

 

I observed the same on Bangkok's suburban Bang Bamru station on Hua Hin line,  enormous building , 17 pissoirs in men's washroom ( show me at least one that big at Swampy for example ) and only few trains stopping there with mid-day gap between trains of 5 hrs and only few  passengers

7 hours ago, z909 said:

Despite all this, I suspect the rail line will be a competitive option for getting from BKK to Pattaya and possibly a very good option from DMK to Pattaya.

 

I agree , but regular , normal gauge electrified  line with double track would do. HSR on such a line is vanity project , just like Maglev in Shanghai

3 hours ago, macaroni21 said:

The Chinese also built a spanking new rail line connecting Addis Ababa to Djibouti...... Once the Ethiopians took over, things fell apart....

The Thais may not be as bad as the Ethiopians, but they're certainly not in the same league as the Japanese, Chinese, Germans or Koreans.

I'm not questioning that story  but if Ethiopian can efficiently  , perhaps best African airline Ethiopian can should do OK with railways as well  specially that one Chinese build replaced old, narrow gauge , French built railway ( picture of old terminus for those interested attached below, on the first picture one can see new BTS -like city train running on elevated track)

 

 

[Guest]

Whilst I agree that 150 km/h is perfectly adequate for this route, I'm not entirely sure how much more it costs to build a 250km/h rail line than a 150 km/h line.   

On flat terrain, if they don't need many changes of direction, I suspect the cost difference might not be so high.  

[macaroni21]

While I too don't know the cost differential between 150 kmh and 250kmh (and I agree that 150 kmh might be optimal for DMK to U-Tapao), I suspect the biggest factor would be the cost of land acquisition. Trains running at 250 kmh cannot tolerate the curves that slower trains can. In certain sections, they simply cannot run along the same rail reserves that had been set aside for slower trains; needing new pathways altogether. In urban Bangkok and the Eastern corridor, that sounds like a very expensive proposition.

In China, the HSR mostly run on very different pathways compared to the old railways. In many cities, they also have new stations away from the city centre because the HSR just cannot run into downtown.

Example: Bangkok's airport railway is barely able (with screeches and scratches) to make the turn out of Suvarnabhumi to the direction parallel to the expressway. We can forget about a HSR doing the same turn, unless it slows down to low-speed-rail speed, in which case, what's the point?

[macaroni21]

5 hours ago, vinapu said:

I'm not questioning that story  but if Ethiopian can efficiently  , perhaps best African airline

Ah, that reminds me!  At the same conference where I caught up with the Ethiopian guy -- I had known him from earlier -- he was one of 3 delegates from Africa. He at least, arrived on time, courtesy Ethiopian Airlines. There was supposed to be a delegate from either Uganda or Tanzania or some East African country, but she didn't show up at the meeting till 48 hours later on the conference's penultimate day, her planes having been repeatedly delayed. By the time she was settled in, it was time to pack for departure. She then was scheduled to fly home the next evening!

I presume she made it.

The 3rd guy from Africa was a Nigerian who showed up on time, but after the conference, I heard from the grapevine that he never went back home. Instead he slipped into illegal status somewhere. For all I know, he might be camping out in the Calais "jungle" right now hoping to steal into a container crossing into the UK!

I shall stop here. I am getting dangerously close to racial profiling territory which is not my intention at all.