Basics for BKK, please

[12is12]

Hi Guys,

The posts here reflect a membership well acquainted with BKK. I tried to mine for basics but there are just too many posts to do that effectively. So please humor me and other newbies, and share basics.

Maybe someone could be time-generous and summarise updated info.....   ?

 

Where and when are the bests? what/whom to avoid? normal rates? Massage, shows/competitions? specific MBs recommended?

How much is an "off"? a tip at the table?

I'll be there three nights: Satur, Sun, Mon: any nights better/worse in any bars?

Where and when are the best shows?

Aything to do there during the day?

 

Specifically for my taste: lean-masculine, not muscle builders; smooth and shaved; size matters a lot - length over girth; preferrably uncut; english-speakers - a big plus.

Where do I search for this type? 

 

Thanks

(-:

[macaroni21]

Let me try to help with some of your questions.

What/whom to avoid? Touts, touts and touts. They'll make a beeline for you once you look like a newbie. Mostly found in the Silom, Surawong and Patpong areas, they'll want to show you where the bars are, etc. Don't let them. Don't even answer their questions or make eye contact. Pretend that the only language you speak is Belorussian or Fulani and cannot understand a word of what they're saying. Keep walking on.The bars and massage places are not hard to find by yourself. Thailand is pretty open about sex and related businesses, and these establishments are not hidden in deep back alleys where tourists would never dream of entering alone and so might need someone to show them the way. They're on the main street! They have bright blinking neon signs.

I would assume you have some sort of gaydar. Turn it on. Spot the gay guys and see where they're going. Follow.

How much is an off? It'll vary from one place to another. Just ask the bar captain as to the bar fine and the desired boy about his own charges. They'll be upfront about it (especially the Vietnamese!)

How much is a tip at the table? I assume you're indicating a situation where you've had a bar boy sit with you for more than 3 minutes but you really don't want him to continue sitting there, or he doesn't want to continue sitting there, so you part ways. 100 baht would be fine, that is in addition to the drink you've bought him (which he might have hardly touched, but that's not the point).

A quick short visit like you have planned likely means you'll spend nearly all your time in touristy areas. The bars and massage parlours in these areas see mostly tourist patrons*. This means there is no working week to affect the pattern of traffic, so whether you go Saturday, Sunday or Monday won't make much difference.

*On this note, I'll add that first-time farangs may make the mistake of thinking that the Asian-looking patrons of bars and massage parlours are Thais. While that may be true in some massage parlours, in general the Asians are tourists like you, from other neighbouring countries. Some will outspend the farang by a mile. They are now THAT rich!

Best shows? It depends whether you're looking for Magicians pulling rabbits out of hats or nude girls spitting darts from their vaginas. Could you be more specific?

By the way, my blog has a Massage explainer and a Bar explainer that throws a little light on the mysteries of the different kinds of gay bars and massage parlours, plus accounts of my experiences at some places. May give you an idea of how things work (or more often than not, how things fall apart  )

Take it easy. Enjoy the experience, don't set your hopes on everything turning out perfect. They won't, but they'll be fun eye-openers.

Anything to do in the day? Since you'll be there over a weekend, you could visit the Chatuchak bazaar (BTS skytrain, Morchit station) on Saturday and Sunday. Or you could marvel at the consumerism in any one of the countless shopping malls around BTS Siam station. Or even make your way, via BTS Saphan Taksin station, and a boat ride, to Icon Siam on the other side of the river. Well, of course, there's the Grand Palace, the Wat Keo, the Wat Arun.... google these up. They will need taxi or Grab. Along the way there you'll also get to experience another Bangkok attraction to write home about: horrendous traffic jams.

Most of the bars on Patpong soi 2 (Hotmale, Lucky Boys,Dream Boys, Fresh, Screw Boys) and the Banana Boys on SIlom soi 4 will have some lean muscle chaps amongst their off-able crew. Ditto with the selection from Jupiter and Moonlight, though maybe a bit pricier -- these two bars think they are classier.

Thais, Cambodians, Vietnamese, Lao and Burmese are almost all uncut. In fact, hey, most of the world are uncut 

Speak English? Keep your hopes low, real low. Consider this, how many farm boys in your country, hustling in the cities, speak Thai?

Good luck! You'll be fine.

 

 

 

[12is12]

WOW!!!

Thank you VERY much Macaroni!

[My name is Roni. As a kid I wsa teased by the chant: roni macaroni...]

Kudos for such a manifestation of the Golden Rule. 

Your blog looks like a treasure trove; I'll delve into it when I have more research time.

And thanks to you I googled Fulani.....

(-:

 

Follow up questions:

1. "Off rates and boy rates vary" - between what? 600-900 and 1500-2000?

2. "Best shows" - I meant gay shows. "Dig dicks" that are real dicks, and shows that are more erotic fun than cold mechanic. (I don't like drag.)

3. "Anything to do in the day" - I didn't mean tourist sites; I meant sex, assuming these bars come alive only in the evening/night (by the way - what time DOES the action start?). 

4. I asked about uncut, becasue previously I assumed there were non, but was told that naturally Muslim boys are. If that's true, I was wondering whether they flock to certain venues.

 

[Moses]

"Off rates and boy rates vary" - between what? 600-900 and 1500-2000?

Regular in Bangkok 1500 short time, 2000 - night. Some may agrees on 1000. 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, macaroni21 said:

How much is an off? It'll vary from one place to another. Just ask the bar captain as to the bar fine and the desired boy about his own charges. They'll be upfront about it (especially the Vietnamese!).

Be careful here.

Asking the mamasan what the off fee is is OK.

Don't ask the mamasan what the boy tip is, as they are likely to inflate it.      In fact, try not to look like a newbie.

If you're asking the boy about what he wants for a tip, of course some may start off with a high price.    So it's better if you know what the going rate is and are prepared to haggle.

For twinks from Bangkok bars, you're probably going to have to pay 1500 short time, or slightly more.      You might get 1000 from someone on a phone app, but a lot ask for more.

I run a series of polls on boy tips here about 1 year ago, so if you do a search, that should pop up.   Thailand is a low inflation country, so figures from 1 year ago should be near enough.

By the time you have paid for 2 drinks and an off fee, the bar might be taking 1400 as well. 

 

Having travelled to Bangkok, it makes sense to splash out and enjoy it.    If anyone does need to start tightening the budget, switching from bars to phone apps and/or going to Pattaya are options.    Short time rates are lower and you get change from 1000 baht, after 2 drinks and an off fee.   I think the lowest I paid to the bar on the last trip was 600.

[vinapu]

In Bangkok off fee will be 400-500 depending on the bar

drink 350-500 , boy drink the same range  although in some bars buy drink may  be slightly cheaper or more expensive  ( 20-40 baht difference either way )

short time  from 1500 , some guys may accept less but they may be  from  apps or beer bars  in soi 4 and Hot male outside in Patpong 2 rather than go-go bars

long time is subject to double inflation , it looks less guys are willing to do it and if they do, 2500 -3000 seems to be bottom and more popular or better  built guys may  not even  start that " low ". Again boys from apps may be less demanding. 

Hunting for guy matching your specification is 80% of fun, other 20% you will have in your room

[DivineMadman]

Bar “off fee” at Banana is 300.  

Wasn’t there just a post that Lucky Boys S/T is strictly-enforced 2,000?  I’m surprised it’s less at Moonlight.  Personally, I think S/T is more like 2,000 and L/T 2,500-3,000. Apps can be anywhere from 1000-2000.  In BKK.

[vinapu]

2 hours ago, DivineMadman said:

 

Wasn’t there just a post that Lucky Boys S/T is strictly-enforced 2,000?  

According to poster boys from Lucky Boys  are prohibited from quoting more so may go for less / no personal experience / 

[spoon]

Moonlight is less? So far, 2k ST is normal for moonlight, jupiter, dreamboy, and tawan. Some tawan boys and of course moonlight model as well as popular muscular ones i  jupiter asked for more than that for ST 2.5k and above (especially moonlight model). But for OP taste of lean masculine guys, i guess lower can be had and most if not all bars should have few of those type on offer.

I hate haggling with boys. If they quote high price, as long as its within my expectation, i probably will accept (with high expectation that ill be getting great services - which even at lower quoted rate, i usually add more tip anyway for good service) or move on to other guy. My experience when haggling, not much experience since i dont like haggling but when i do, and successfullg get a lower price, the services wasnt as id hope for, and ill feel like a cheapskate doing it. 

[DivineMadman]

17 minutes ago, spoon said:

So far, 2k ST is normal for [...] 

That's really my point.  I don't think 1,500 is the norm in BKK for S/T.  I think it's better to expect 2,000 S/T.  (Apps you can find guys for less.)

I don't know as much about L/T because my problem is getting the guys to leave, so I never actually ask for L/T.  

[vinapu]

5 minutes ago, DivineMadman said:

 

I don't know as much about L/T because my problem is getting the guys to leave, ......

in my experience payment of tip signalizes our time together is over

[newscene]

47 minutes ago, vinapu said:

According to poster boys from Lucky Boys  are prohibited from quoting more so may go for less / no personal experience / 

During my trip few months ago, ST was around 2K, also like you mentioned very few are looking for LT as the price could be around 2.5k to 3k therefore most of the guys try to get two offing a night and in turn earn about 4K. This seems to be preference at Lucky's.

I will get to know more soon as I will be there next week

[macaroni21]

11 hours ago, 12is12 said:

Follow up questions:

1. "Off rates and boy rates vary" - between what? 600-900 and 1500-2000?

2. "Best shows" - I meant gay shows. "Dig dicks" that are real dicks, and shows that are more erotic fun than cold mechanic. (I don't like drag.)

3. "Anything to do in the day" - I didn't mean tourist sites; I meant sex, assuming these bars come alive only in the evening/night (by the way - what time DOES the action start?). 

4. I asked about uncut, becasue previously I assumed there were non, but was told that naturally Muslim boys are. If that's true, I was wondering whether they flock to certain venues.

 

Others have addressed Q1.

Regarding Q2, the Patpong Soi 2 bars will have full exposure with engorged appendages at some or several points in their shows. Most of the time, the performers will come down from the stage and circulate amongst the audience for a few seconds' grope and a 100-baht tip. You can say "No, thank you" if you think 100-baht (3€) is ridiculous for a very brief handling of a sausage tied up in rubber. If you want something more aesthetic rather than crude (erotic is probably too much to ask for) Moonlight's and Jupiter's shows might fit the bill, but there will be some show items when drag lip-sync performers take centre-stage.

Two bits more of explanation. Why do I say erotic is probably too much to ask for? Well, the performers are mostly straight. They may do nudity, even as a group, but touching another straight performer on stage in a truly erotic, sensual way is either beyond their instincts or inclination. They just don't do or maybe don't understand homo-erotic. How many of us would really know/want to do erotic with a woman even in a show act? Why can't they be trained? Bar owners can't really be bothered, especially since the boys move from bar to bar. Anyway, bar owners are policemen's wives (at least according to received wisdom), not show directors. Cold mechanic may be the best one can get.

Second bit of explanation: I noticed you used the word "gay" in Q2 in a certain way. Avoid the use of this word (as you understand it) in Thailand. Thais tend to understand "gay" in a different way. They conflate it with katoey and cross-dressing. So if you use "gay" in your way, you will likely meet with cultural misunderstanding. E.g. if you ask to be shown to a "gay show", you will get drag.

Regarding your Q3, ah, I see. You want homo sex 24/7  Unfortunately, not much to do in the day, in this respect. There are possibilities in the afternoon, say, after 3pm, in the saunas or massage parlours.

But do give the ping-pong and shoot-darts show a try. I wasn't entirely joking. They're eye-openers and special Thai treats. 

I'm not sure where your Q4 is coming from, but I somehow have the sense that you're thinking Thais are mainly Muslim and thus were concerned that you can't find uncut boys in Bangkok? Pardon me if I have misunderstood.

[DivineMadman]

17 hours ago, 12is12 said:

preferrably uncut

14 hours ago, 12is12 said:

I was wondering whether they flock to certain venues.

 

 

I don't think they do.  The few (couple) of times that I have ended up with a Muslim guy was from Dreamboys, but hardly a statistically valid sample.  

 

2 hours ago, macaroni21 said:

I noticed you used the word "gay" in Q2 in a certain way. Avoid the use of this word (as you understand it) in Thailand. Thais tend to understand "gay" in a different way. They conflate it with katoey and cross-dressing.

I haven't come across this.  

There are several massage shops that send out Thai language Line blasts or updates and they use "gay" with the same sense as we do.  For example, VCK - will say who is "" เกย์" ("gay") and who is "ชายแท้" ("chaai-táe"="real man"=straight).  They will also say if someone is top only, does it all, or does absolutely everything. And these gay guys are not ladyboys or feminine. 

There are other shops that will identify guys as G or M for "gay" or "man=straight" , so you will see GT or GT&B or MT or the rare elusive (but prized) MT&B.  Crowns Club is another that identifies guys as "" เกย์" ("gay") or  "ชายแท้" ("real man").  And the list goes on and on.  

Also, in my experience just in conversations with local guys there is no direct link between "gay" and ladyboy.  We freely use "gay" in the "gay Thailand" sense.  To confirm my understanding, over breakfast I asked a young lad from Laos if "gay" would really make people think katoey, and he thought not, but, again, not a statistically valid sample.  (Over breakfast = another of those uninvited L/Ts.  )

It is true that most of the gay gogo bars have a drag element in the show.  But you find that in gay bars in NYC and Atlanta and elsewhere.  Go figure.

At bars, I always ask guys if they are "gay" ("เกย์"), and at massage shops if I'm selecting from a lineup or photos I always first just tell the manager it has to someone "gay."  Again, no hint of ladyboy.  Way back I used to say I didn't want straight/top only - because that's all I cared about - but this way of asking-by-exclusion doesn't work as well as just saying gay.  Actually I say I want someone "gay does everything" ("เกย์งานครบ ได้หมด").  Can't go wrong with that.

[zoomy02]

I pay 2000 short time to men from Screwboys and Freshboys, maybe 2500 if we've gone to eat, then gone to hotel for sex; maybe 3000 if several hours go by or it becomes long time. Men who really need an off have quoted less occasionally over the years. The more challenging situations are if they say they have to go early to help a friend or to a friend's birthday. I had one where we went for one short drink in a nearby bar; he said he had to go to birthday. I gave him 1000, which was probably generous in hindsight. The off fee to the bar of 500 starts to make it expensive just for a brief chat. On the apps 1000 doesn't seem to get much take up with up to 3000 quoted. The problem on the apps can be the use of old photos. The lads seem to accept any reasonable amount in the areas talked about here. But Thailand is not a country to argue about money in other services, like the visitor who argued about a 51 bt taxi fare and got macheted to death by the driver. 

[DivineMadman]

32 minutes ago, zoomy02 said:

But Thailand is not a country to argue about money in other services, like the visitor who argued about a 51 bt taxi fare and got macheted to death by the driver. 

There's a story about a hippie tourist who heard that in Thailand you are supposed to negotiate prices for everything (a la Chatuchak) so he tried to do that at 7-11.

[spoon]

1 hour ago, DivineMadman said:

I don't think they do.  The few (couple) of times that I have ended up with a Muslim guy was from Dreamboys, but hardly a statistically valid sample.  

 

I haven't come across this.  

There are several massage shops that send out Thai language Line blasts or updates and they use "gay" with the same sense as we do.  For example, VCK - will say who is "" เกย์" ("gay") and who is "ชายแท้" ("chaai-táe"="real man"=straight).  They will also say if someone is top only, does it all, or does absolutely everything. And these gay guys are not ladyboys or feminine. 

There are other shops that will identify guys as G or M for "gay" or "man=straight" , so you will see GT or GT&B or MT or the rare elusive (but prized) MT&B.  Crowns Club is another that identifies guys as "" เกย์" ("gay") or  "ชายแท้" ("real man").  And the list goes on and on.  

Also, in my experience just in conversations with local guys there is no direct link between "gay" and ladyboy.  We freely use "gay" in the "gay Thailand" sense.  To confirm my understanding, over breakfast I asked a young lad from Laos if "gay" would really make people think katoey, and he thought not, but, again, not a statistically valid sample.  (Over breakfast = another of those uninvited L/Ts.  )

It is true that most of the gay gogo bars have a drag element in the show.  But you find that in gay bars in NYC and Atlanta and elsewhere.  Go figure.

At bars, I always ask guys if they are "gay" ("เกย์"), and at massage shops if I'm selecting from a lineup or photos I always first just tell the manager it has to someone "gay."  Again, no hint of ladyboy.  Way back I used to say I didn't want straight/top only - because that's all I cared about - but this way of asking-by-exclusion doesn't work as well as just saying gay.  Actually I say I want someone "gay does everything" ("เกย์งานครบ ได้หมด").  Can't go wrong with that.

I wonder if they have category for bisexual guys which for me, are as good as gay guys hehe. 

[DivineMadman]

57 minutes ago, spoon said:

I wonder if they have category for bisexual guys which for me, are as good as gay guys hehe. 

On the apps you will see the word "bi" (ไบ), and variations like manly bi (ไบแมนๆ) etc.  So it's pretty simple word in both languages.  

[macaroni21]

4 hours ago, DivineMadman said:

For example, VCK - will say who is "" เกย์" ("gay") and who is "ชายแท้" ("chaai-táe"="real man"=straight)....

There are other shops that will identify guys as G or M for "gay" or "man=straight"

Agreed, in the gay businesses especially those which see tourist traffic, the staff may be familiar with Western usage, but I was referring to normal usage among Thai people I've met, outside of gay sex-related environments.

In any case, your examples are interesting in themselves. If the notion of "straight" is expressed with a strong relationship to "man" ("real man", "man=straight"), what does that indicate of their notion of gay?

[Guest]

4 hours ago, zoomy02 said:

 On the apps 1000 doesn't seem to get much take up with up to 3000 quoted. The problem on the apps can be the use of old photos.

The last time someone quoted me 3000 on an app, I countered with 1000 and he accepted immediately.     I was expecting to settle at 1500.

1500 is more common on the apps.      If anyone quotes 2~3000, I presume a counter offer is expected.  

 

I also tell them that they need to look like their photo, as anyone using a very old & unrepresentative photo gets sent away.     Of course, this is an effective filter and I've never needed to send anyone away.

Of course the problems that do occur are more like where I miss some issue that is visible like a beer gut, in which case it's my responsibility and I shouldn't send him away.   Or where he's just slightly aged from the photo.       

In Pattaya, a small number of the boys have been using the same photos for years and a couple of others have recently discovered apps to "improve" their photos.  Regular visitors will recognise them & they are easily avoided. 

Due to shorter stays, I don't notice it so much in Bangkok, but presume it goes on.

[DivineMadman]

18 minutes ago, macaroni21 said:

In any case, your examples are interesting in themselves. If the notion of "straight" is expressed with a strong relationship to "man" ("real man", "man=straight"), what does that indicate of their notion of gay?

I find the whole chai-tae/real man thing horrible for just that reason.  They need some good old queer activism to attack language issues like that.  

But then again, why is "straight" the opposite of gay?  And what about all those Grindr profiles using "straight-acting" one way or another - what's that really saying? (- or "no-fems")  Seems the same common negative slant to all us people who like man-sex.  

I think people are happily using the global word "gay.".  So now they just need a different word for the heteros. 

[spoon]

29 minutes ago, DivineMadman said:

I find the whole chai-tae/real man thing horrible for just that reason.  They need some good old queer activism to attack language issues like that.  

But then again, why is "straight" the opposite of gay?  And what about all those Grindr profiles using "straight-acting" one way or another - what's that really saying? (- or "no-fems")  Seems the same common negative slant to all us people who like man-sex.  

I think people are happily using the global word "gay.".  So now they just need a different word for the heteros. 

Cisgender is the politically correct term for that right? Or does that only to differentiate trans from non transgender?

[DivineMadman]

I think cis means  you identify as your anatomical birth gender. So it’s not anout orientation. 
 

but truth is i find it hard to keep up with all this. 

[ggobkk]

Suggest 12is12 check out the Timeless Forum posts. 

[PeterRS]

I find it useless worrying about nomenclature. I for one hate the use of Queer. For decades when I was growing up it was filled with very negative connotations and I loathed it. Now it has become fashionable again. I wish the younger generation could be bothered to educate themselves about its history. 

Gay is one virtually generic term but there are many sub-terms. Even that is a fairly recent adoption of the term. In the years between the two world wars, it meant cheerful, carefree and fun. Even in the mid 1950s Leonard Bernstein composed a musical 'Candide' whose main song is "Glitter and be Gay". (Mind you, as Bernstein was himself a homosexual as his wife writes in one of her letters to him, its possible perhaps he wrote that with tongue in cheek!)

In a way I am sorry the word gay has all but lost its earlier meanings. As for straights, I have no such problem. What other term is likely to be appropriate I wonder? Acceptance of the word heteros implies an equal acceptance of homos.