Health insurance mandatory for retirees

[reader]

From Khaosod English 

The BANGKOK — Foreigners entering Thailand with a retiree stay visa will soon have to buy mandatory health insurance, a health official said Wednesday.

Starting Oct. 31, foreigners over 50 entering the country with an O-A visa must show that they have valid health insurance covering their period of stay, deputy public health minister Sathit Pitutecha said. He said the measure will prevent foreigners from doing a runner for hospital fees.

“By requiring foreign retirees to have a health insurance, they can be ensured that they will be taken care of when they get ill and accident, Sathit said. “This measure will solve over 100 million baht fees left unpaid by foreign patients.”

O-A visa is more commonly known as the one-year retiree visa. Sathit said about 80,000 people held the visa as of 2018.

The new rule specifies that the insured amount must not be less than 40,000 baht for outpatient and 400,000 baht for inpatient medical fees. Policies can either be purchased from domestic or foreign insurers, but the sum of foreign policies must not be less than the amount stipulated for Thai policies.

“The new rules will be applied to those who enter the country for the first time and those who wish to extend their visas,” Sathit said.

According to an internal immigration memo dated Sept. 27 seen by the media, only foreign retirees holding non-immigration O-A visa will be affected. They will be required to present their insurance policies with remaining coverage period for their stay or being denied entry. The 

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/news/2019/10/10/health-insurance-will-be-mandatory-for-retiree-visa-holders/

[TotallyOz]

Don't most retirees have health insurance? I know there are some good plans out there and they are much cheaper with Thailand only coverage.

[DivineMadman]

just to clarify - this new rule applies only to Non Immigrant O-A visas -- which are obtained outside of Thailand at the home embassy.  (It is a one-year multi-entry visa that permits one year stays in the beloved Kingdom, so in theory one could stay almost two years on the Non Imm O-A if you leave and renter and get a new one-year permission to stay shortly before the expiration of the visa.)  

This particular new insurance requirement does not apply for people on an "extension of stay" -- often called the "retirement visa."  

 

[2lz2p]

18 hours ago, DivineMadman said:

just to clarify - this new rule applies only to Non Immigrant O-A visas -- which are obtained outside of Thailand at the home embassy.  (It is a one-year multi-entry visa that permits one year stays in the beloved Kingdom, so in theory one could stay almost two years on the Non Imm O-A if you leave and renter and get a new one-year permission to stay shortly before the expiration of the visa.)  

This particular new insurance requirement does not apply for people on an "extension of stay" -- often called the "retirement visa."  

 

To further clarify, the Non-Immigrant Visa, Category "O-A" information is correct, it is obtained in country of residence, which for most will be their home country but is available in other countries only if they are considered by that country to be a legal resident.  Both the "O-A" and "O-X" Visas are for retirees to meet the requirements for retiring in Thailand (be 50 years of age or older & have required financial resources).  A health insurance requirement has been in effect for some time for the Non-Immigrant Visa Category "O-X" (sometimes called a 10 year visa).   All other categories for a Non-Immigrant Visa do not require the person have health insurance, e.g., Category "O", Category "B", Category "Ed", etc.  My following comments do not relate to the O-X Visa as it is rather unique, has always had a health insurance from a Thai company, and probably held by only a few.

Most O-A Visas are valid for entry for one year from date of issue (Enter by date shown on Visa) and are Multiple Entry ("M" designation on the Visa), meaning the holder can leave & return to Thailand during the validity period of the Visa and each time they enter, they until the new rules, receive a one-year permission to stay, e.g., if Visa expires on November 30, 2019 and the holder enters or reenters Thailand on November 29, 2019, they will be permitted to stay until November 28, 2020.   However, under the new rules, they will need to show they have health insurance coverage of at least 400,000 baht inpatient and 40,000 baht outpatient - the insurance can be from a non-Thai company acceptable to the Thai Embassy/Consulate where the application is being made. Apparently (this is still new and not effective til the end of this month) based on the information posted on the Thai Immigration Website, there will be an annotation on the Visa (or in passport next to Visa stamp) on the period of health insurance.  Upon entry into Thailand, initial or subsequent, the permission to stay will be until the expiration date of the health insurance unless proof is shown that a new policy is in effect that will continue to cover for the full year normally granted.

A permission to stay in Thailand is based on the type of entry, Visa Exempt (30 days), Tourist Visa (60 days), or Non-Immigrant Visa (90 days- except for O-A and O-X).  One can apply at Thai Immigration to extend the period of permitted stay (note, this is an extension of the permission to stay, not the Visa validity period).  In the case of Visa Exempt or Tourist Visa, the extension of stay can be granted one time for 30 days.  For Non-Immigrant Visas, the extension may vary depending on the Visa Category and purpose of the extension.  Immigration has published rules on how long the stay may a particular purpose, most being up to one-year.  One of these purposes can be for retirement - usually based on a Category O Visa. 

The new rules governing the granting of extensions for the purpose of retirement have been amended with an effective date of October 31, 2019. They added a new requirement for health insurance BUT IT ONLY APPLIES to those that were granted a permission to stay based on having a Non-Immigrant O-A Visa.  Thus it DOES NOT APPLY to the permission of stay granted to holders of other categories of Non-Immigrant Visas such as "O" who apply for an extension of stay even though it is also for retirement.

That said, there is currently a lot of speculation and inaccurate or incomplete information being bandied about in the press and on various message boards. The above information is based on official rules or announcements by Thai Immigration or Ministry of Foreign Affairs (governs Embassies & Consulates).  Many press articles are based on pronouncements by officials with the Ministry of Public Health, who although the prime instigators for the new requirement, are often ignorant of Immigration and Visa requirements and, IMO, should not be relied on unless backed up by rules/requirements of Immigration or Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

 

[Bob]

The bottom line is that the new health insurance regulations do not affect anyone presently in Thailand.  And, unless they add new rules making the requirement applicable to other groups,  the requirement is easily avoidable (simply come in on a Non-O or Tourist Visa ....or even a simple 30-day exemption....and convert to a retirement extension in country).

The real problem for a few (those obtaining 0-A visas in the future in their home countries) is that they are limited to buying the "long stay" insurance from the approved list of Thai insurance companies.  Based on my review of those (the few sites one can switch the language to English and actually make sense of it) is that only one of the 9-12 companies is offering the long-stay insurance to people over 70 (but only if you've had coverage with that particular company since you were 70 or before); other than that possibility, it would appear that nobody over 70 is ever going to be able to obtain an 0-A visa after October 31st.  

[2lz2p]

2 hours ago, Bob said:

The bottom line is that the new health insurance regulations do not affect anyone presently in Thailand.  And, unless they add new rules making the requirement applicable to other groups,  the requirement is easily avoidable (simply come in on a Non-O or Tourist Visa ....or even a simple 30-day exemption....and convert to a retirement extension in country).

The real problem for a few (those obtaining 0-A visas in the future in their home countries) is that they are limited to buying the "long stay" insurance from the approved list of Thai insurance companies.  Based on my review of those (the few sites one can switch the language to English and actually make sense of it) is that only one of the 9-12 companies is offering the long-stay insurance to people over 70 (but only if you've had coverage with that particular company since you were 70 or before); other than that possibility, it would appear that nobody over 70 is ever going to be able to obtain an 0-A visa after October 31st.  

Unfortunately, the new health insurance rules do appear to affect some persons presently in Thailand.  These persons are anyone who are on a Permission to Stay granted on the basis of entry into Thailand using a Non-Immigrant "O-A" Visa and those who originally entered using the "O-A" Visa and are presently obtaining annual extensions of stay based on the original permission to stay granted by that Visa.

For the first group, permission to stay based on entering with an Non-Immigrant O-A Visa.  These are usually multiple entry and if the holder departs and returns to Thailand during the validity period of the O-A Visa (the enter by date shown on the Visa placed in the passport by the Thai Embassy/Consulate that issued it - which is normally one year from the date it was issued. Under the new rules effective October 31, 2019, Immigration Officers will be checking for the required health insurance upon initial and subsequent entries (page 11 of the pdf file that shows up in the window at Thai Immigration website page announcing the new rules:  https://www.immigration.go.th/read?content_id=5d9c3b074d8a8f318362a8aa&fbclid=IwAR39UI_zBxVLedZKgZeAeYnvb0yyyIsr6SHPhnq64ohzACO7VsLUU_LlGn0)

For those already in Thailand in the first group that will be applying for an extension of their one year permitted stay or those that have done so already and continue to renew their extension of stay that was originally based on the Non-Immigrant O-A Visa, the Immigration Bureau has changed the provisions of Paragraph 2.22 of the current Police Order governing the granting of extensions of stay - in the link above, scroll down past the Thai version to the start of the English version which shows the change - extract follows:

 

Quote

Criteria for Consideration of Granting an Alien's Extension of Stay in the Kingdom Attachment to the Order of the Royal Thai Police no. 548 /2562 dated September 27, 2019

 

 

 

Column: Reason of necessity

 

2.22 In case of retirement

(1) Each permission shall be granted for no more than 1 year.

(2) An alien, who has been granted Non-Immigrant Visa Class 0-A according to the Criterion 6, will be permitted to stay for a period of insurance and coverage. Each permission shall be granted for no more than 1 year.

Column: Criteria for consideration

 

(6)       Only for an alien, who has been granted Non-Immigrant Visa Class 0-A, must buy a Thai health insurance online, which covers the length of stay in the Kingdom with no less than 40,000 baht coverage for outpatient treatment and no less than 400,000 baht for inpatient, via the website longstay.tgia.org.  (Emphasis Added)

 

[Bob]

23 hours ago, 2lz2p said:

Unfortunately, the new health insurance rules do appear to affect some persons presently in Thailand.  These persons are anyone who are on a Permission to Stay granted on the basis of entry into Thailand using a Non-Immigrant "O-A" Visa and those who originally entered using the "O-A" Visa and are presently obtaining annual extensions of stay based on the original permission to stay granted by that Visa.

Sorry, I disagree.  The new rules apply to those issued an 0-A visa in their home country after October 31, 2019.  There's no basis to suggest the rules will be applied retroactively. 

There is one dicey area perhaps....those who obtained an 0-A visa before November 1st, 2019, but first entered Thailand after October 31, 2019..  Because of the language in the police order, that one area is a bit confusing although I'd bet 5 baht that the only criteria will be the actual issue date of the 0-A visa (but time will tell if I lose that 5 baht).  But regardless of that workout, the new rules (unless and until changed) shouldn't affect anybody who's in Thailand prior to the beginning of next month. 

[2lz2p]

 Bob, you may disagree and are certainly entitle to your opinion which is also that of many others that have made similar comments on Thaivisa.com regarding applicability - BUT there are also numerous posting by those that do agree with my interpretation.

 In my comments I do say "appear" to apply rather than making a concrete statement to that effect as you have done.

As mentioned, the rule recently issued by Immigration for section 2.22 retirement (purpose for granting an extension to be followed effective October 31 by Immigration Offices) added the health insurance requirement for those granted a stay based on an O-A Visa -- it makes no distinction on when that Visa was granted.  Thus, it does not rule out be applicable to those that previously entered and were granted an initial permission to stay based on holding an O-A Visa.  Further, IMO, they are not applying the rule retroactively as it simply adds a new requirement for approving future applications for extensions of stay by those that held an O-A Visa upon which previous extensions were granted.  So, this can also be considered a "dicey area" that will need to wait to see how Immigration interprets the requirement, which is what counts, not our interpretations.  However, I'm willing to bet 10 baht that it will apply and as you say, time will tell if I am to lose that bet.

[Gaybutton]

I don't think any of us are really going to know until the rules come into effect and we start seeing what the various immigration offices are going to do.  In all my years living in Thailand, if I've learned nothing else, I've learned that no matter what the immigration rules are, it all comes down to what the immigration officer you're dealing with decides to do, all too often at the whim of the officer regardless of the rules.

My suggestion for O-A retirement visa holders who wish to renew, do so as far in advance of the expiration date as possible.  That way, if there is anything they want you to do, you will still have time to get it done.

If the immigration officer tells you something you don't want to hear, whatever you do, don't get angry or argue with him.  It won't do any good, won't get him to change his mind, and will only make things worse.  Whatever he tells you that you need to do, you're going to have to do it.  It will be either that, or you don't get the visa.

[2lz2p]

1 hour ago, Gaybutton said:

I don't think any of us are really going to know until the rules come into effect and we start seeing what the various immigration offices are going to do.  In all my years living in Thailand, if I've learned nothing else, I've learned that no matter what the immigration rules are, it all comes down to what the immigration officer you're dealing with decides to do, all too often at the whim of the officer regardless of the rules.

My suggestion for O-A retirement visa holders who wish to renew, do so as far in advance of the expiration date as possible.  That way, if there is anything they want you to do, you will still have time to get it done.

If the immigration officer tells you something you don't want to hear, whatever you do, don't get angry or argue with him.  It won't do any good, won't get him to change his mind, and will only make things worse.  Whatever he tells you that you need to do, you're going to have to do it.  It will be either that, or you don't get the visa.

Very good advice GB.