Travel with Bangkok Guy

[CurtisD]

Anticipation 

(This report is with quite a lag)

In the car leaving the airport the usual excitement is tinged with a little apprehension as this trip I am moving out of my habitual comfort zone.

I am using Bangkok as the base for several overnight trips to other countries in the region and have rented an apartment for the duration so that I can unpack just once and then make the overnight trips with a carry-on. The apartment is much more economical than my usual hotel, the price of which is higher than last time even though it is low season due, I suspect, to the stronger Bhat. An apartment will also let Bangkok Guy demonstrate his cooking skills.

While I think I have selected a very nice apartment with good reviews in a building with a high-story infinity pool, I will not know what I have until I see it.

The larger step outside the comfort zone is that Bangkok Guy will accompany me on a tourism-only trip for a few days. Traveling with someone is a whole different level of interaction to seeing them in the evenings.

The build up to this trip has been a small roller coaster.

Bangkok Guy and I maintained our usual erratic Line correspondence to confirm that we were both upright and breathing.

When I told him that, with regret, I could not return to Bangkok February/March as originally planned and instead would probably visit mid-year, his response was a sad looking bunny.

Then a few days later he asked for money to help pay his rent as he had used all his money on his university fees. Hell. My stomach sank. I have never agreed to a request to send funds.

Then I thought about it.

I know him well enough to know that he has to pay his university fees in the first part of the year. Business aside, one of the reasons I had originally scheduled the trip for February/March was so that he would get a cash infusion from me at about the time I guessed he needed it. The amount he asked for was about the amount I planned to give him in the ‘For your studies’ envelope.

I trust him.

So I sent the money and in return received several almost psychotically happy bunnies.

Ah, the psychic reward from receiving psychotic bunnies is strangely satisfying.

And then, a couple of months later, he went radio silent. Usually, time-zone adjusted, he replies pretty quickly.

I do not expect these connections to continue indefinitely. The guys’ lives change, they move on to the next stage. But when this happens I expect some sort of announcement, particularly from Bangkok Guy, who Lines me if he is running even a little late.  

I am worried that something has happened to him. It is not a good feeling.

Eventually, after about two weeks, up comes a message from a new Line account. He had lost his phone.

In the rush of happy relief I ask him if he has a passport and, if he does, would he like to join me on a short tourist trip I plan to take?

“Yes! I Want!” followed by a large, sparkly, psychotically happy bunny.

I send the dates.

Back comes a very sad bear with a sore head. “I am in provinces”.

When Bangkok Guy says “I go to provinces” with a slight negative intonation on ‘provinces’ which makes it clear that this is not really somewhere a Bangkok person such as himself would normally be seen dead, it means he is going to the ancestral village for family reasons. It is not his favorite place.

However, if he says “I go to provinces” with a neutral or positive intonation, this is usually followed by the name of a place and, if this is a past event (his English comes only in interchangeable future and present tenses) photos of he and friends enjoying themselves somewhere with forest or waterfalls or a beach.

While Line does not provide the intonation clue, the lack of a follow up place name suggests this is a family obligation.

Damn. Down plunges the roller coaster.

He must be thinking the same thing as I receive an odd looking pink lump which when I touch it, moves, and turns out to be a hilarious rendition of a bunny lying face down beating its arms and legs on the ground in frustration.

I prefer considering a glass half full, so I imagine all the fun I can have exploring the new bars.

However, even with a good imagination I just barely manage to view the glass as half full and it dawns on me that my focus in Bangkok is no longer the bars, it is Bangkok Guy.

Over the next few weeks I reconcile myself to exploring the bars and catching up with Bangkok Guy next visit. (Yes, poor poor me, I am only going to be exploring what sounds like a very interesting new scene).

I drop Bangkok Guy a Line just to say Hi and he replies “I stay Bangkok now”.

His flight is booked.

We are both happy and the psychotic bunnies are doing cartwheels.

And I am also slightly concerned. Bangkok Guy is more under my skin than I realized.

[joshhb]

I know exactly how you feel. My relationship is now stable, and we see each other every 6 weeks. He's totally under my skin. Just said good bye to him in Dubai - he's back to BKK and tomorrow me to London.

Long distance relationships can work, but it takes a real effort.

The first trip we did together was to Myanmar and Malaysia. He'd only ever been on a plane to Chiang Mai before. When we parted at KL, he simply did not understand the procedures of an airport, and how to find which gate etc. Now, he's fine with it all. Tonight he changes in Bahrain for the flight to BKK, and I have no worries.

[CurtisD]

8 hours ago, joshhb said:

Long distance relationships can work, but it takes a real effort.

Letting myself get involved is a very new thing. I am still getting used to it!

 

 

[CurtisD]

Arrival

The apartment is a pleasant surprise. It is better than the attractive photos, the high level pool is long enough for laps accompanied with views and an aesthetic which make me feel as though I have stepped into a more glamorous reality. Bangkok Guy likes it better than the Meridian as I can shut the bedroom door leaving him to dream away the morning in silence while I caffinate and work. He also likes having the pool to ourselves.

Bangkok Guy is registered as a guest and reception and security greet him with smiles. I have a feeling the smiles would be absent if he were not a registered guest. Not a location for butterflying.

Bangkok Guy is his usual chirpy cheerful self despite changes in his circumstances which leave me admiring his resilience.

He dropped out of culinary school recently after completing two and a half years of a four year course as, as far as I can understand, his father was not paid for work completed and now it is all hands to the pump to keep the family afloat. To Bangkok Guy it is a given that he drop his plans in order to contribute to the family. He now has a job as a waiter in the restaurant of a distant relative while he develops ideas to earn more.

I asked him if he would continue studying if he had the money and the answer is negative. He needs to contribute and “students cannot contribute”. It appears to be a firm decision as he no longer photographs the food at restaurants. I decide it would not be tactful to ask him to cook.

Further, his maternal grandfather is very old and needs help. His mother will relocate back to the home town in the next few months to look after him and the whole family will probably follow.

I was waiting for some form of irritation or justifiable self-pity at leaving Bangkok and there was none. 

He tells me how much he enjoyed his childhood on his family’s farms and how much nicer the countryside is than Bangkok – no crowded, it beautiful, can have stable life on farm with all your own food.

He shows me videos on YouTube featuring farming near his home town.

And very quietly drops in a small question. When you retire?

No time soon I tell him.

Again, tentatively ‘You could live on farm in home town. I work and look after’.  He is quite sincere.

No, I could not live in the countryside. Cannot live in Thailand as business is not here.

Then the only tiny slip of self-pity in an almost throw-away comment. He will be returning to his home town without a boyfriend, particularly without a falang boyfriend and I get the impression this is a major desire for him.

We sleep away most of the next day, only rising around 4pm. A first for me. I must have been very tired, I have been burning the candle at both ends recently and it is pleasant drifting along next to Bangkok Guy who approves of this new habit – ‘you need rest’. 

[lotus123]

The first time I traveled outside of Thailand with my ex (we flew to Luang Prabang), I knew that it would be his first time leaving the country. He was 32 at the time. Then he revealed it was also his first time flying on a commercial airplane. His only previous experience of flying had been troop transport. We had to take a LOOOOOTTT of pictures of the plane, us in the plane, him in the plane, the walk to/from the plane, the view from the plane, etc. Your upcoming trip together will be a lifetime memory for Bangkok Guy, is my point.

[CurtisD]

9 hours ago, lotus123 said:

The first time I traveled outside of Thailand with my ex (we flew to Luang Prabang), I knew that it would be his first time leaving the country. He was 32 at the time. Then he revealed it was also his first time flying on a commercial airplane. His only previous experience of flying had been troop transport. We had to take a LOOOOOTTT of pictures of the plane, us in the plane, him in the plane, the walk to/from the plane, the view from the plane, etc. Your upcoming trip together will be a lifetime memory for Bangkok Guy, is my point.

Bangkok Guy did enjoy the trip, not just my observation at the time but all his profile pics now come from the trip. However he is surprisingly well traveled. Singapore and Korea with family, Shanghai and Beijing with friends and Ho Chi Minh with a friend and his falang boyfriend. He knows all the places to which Thais can travel without a visa by heart. Turns out he is a very enthusiastic tourist.

[CurtisD]

We Travel

A couple of days later both our bags are packed and ready and we are having dinner at a local seafood restaurant before early to bed and early to rise to catch our flight.

Mid-sentence Bangkok Guy’s face takes on a look of realization. He has left something at his room and needs to go there. How long will it take you? Hour. Ok, you go to your room, I visit bars, meet you at the apartment. “You go bars? I no go room!”

He heads to his room and I make a fleeting visit to see the new bars but, being in a hurry, see only two, Lucky Boys and mistakenly go to Fresh Boys rather than Hot Male as intended.

I like the Lucky Boys set-up. Good seating, many guys to suit most tastes and the arrangement of the toilets to allow sightseeing and mingling is cleaver. Few customers at 9.40pm. I explain the no-guy in-out nature of my visit to the non-pushy mamasan who thinks I am missing out but is happy with 100Bt tip.

Fresh Boys also has many guys and few customers at 9.55pm. The one who catches my eye is the guy on the door with an oval face, symmetrical features and darker complexion. I tip him on the way out, to his surprise.

In the morning I am showered and ready by 6.45am and Bangkok Guy is still in bed. “Car at 7am”. “Mumph”. By 7am he is showered and fresh if not quite bouncing.

In the car he envelopes my arm and tries to sleep on my shoulder.

At the check-in que he comes awake and says ‘shop’ plus something I can’t get. Switching to an easier concept he says ‘five minute’ and gives me his ‘trust me’ look before heading off.

By the time I am #4 in the que he returns happy and shows me his purchase. Facial moisturizer-cum-sunscreen. Heaven forbid that foreign sun might turn him peasant brown.

Someone has left an airline magazine in the waiting area with a long illustrated article on Thai fruit. Bangkok guy animatedly tells me which ones he can grow on farm and then points to Durian: “Falang cannot”. Yet another Falang culinary injunction, purely for our own protection. We are poor specimens needing shelter.

To emphasize the point he shows me a YouTube video of cats reacting to Durian. They do not like it and their expressions are priceless. Falang same same.

It is a smooth flight. Once we are airborne Bangkok Guy raises the armrest and re-arranges my legs into his part of the space. “You need relax”. Except during the meal service Bangkok Guy envelopes my arm and sleeps on my shoulder.

The hotel car meets us on arrival and after happily chatting to the driver “I talk for you, language same same” he again goes to sleep on my shoulder.

The verdict is in. After no reaction in the car to the airport, the plane (slight smile from stewardess) and car to the hotel, Bangkok Guy’s head belongs on my shoulder in all conceivable universes.

The hotel is lovely and our room has a long verandah with a peaceful view over the river. Our leisurely river-view lunch provides the first indication that this town is geared to mildly up-market tourism. English-only menu and a Bangkok price tag. 

This pattern is repeated in every restaurant and café we visit, with the occasional addition of Chinese. Also, as Bangkok Guy points out, the food has been made safe for Falang with minimal spice. As we are keeping with local cuisine Bangkok Guy breaks the language and spice barriers by talking directly with the wait-staff.

[floridarob]

where did you guys travel to?

[CurtisD]

Still Traveling

Bangkok Guy proves to be a very amiable travel companion.

Despite his penchant for staying in bed until mid-day he can get up early, even very early, if needs be.

The monks from the innumerable temples and monasteries walk the town gathering alms between 5am and 6am and, to participate and gain merit, we get up a little after 4am. That is, I get up. Bangkok Guy cuts it a little finer. By 5.10am we have found, in the blue-grey early-dawn, what looks like a good position from which to gain merit, Bangkok Guy has negotiated baskets of sticky rise and stools on which to sit from cheerful rotund ladies and we are draped in a type of local shawl.

The monks emerge from their temples in seemingly random groups of eight or so and walk at a steady pace, no slowing down (with the exception of a few very young ones for whom religious discipline has not yet over-ruled the stomach), so if your dexterity with sticky rice is sub-par every so often a monk will arrive in front of you out of rhythm with your rice-hand and pass on donation-less. Such is karma.

After about thirty minutes and three baskets of rice apiece we bank our merit and cross the road for coffee and good French pastries while we watch the continuing procession.

Bangkok Guy is wide awake and this makes me curious about his habit of sleeping until noon. Why do you sleep to noon if you can be so awake in the morning? If you go back to your home town and farm you will have to get up early every day, can you do that? The answer is all about the rhythm of life. It is important to get enough rest. When you get it does not matter, as long as you get it. In Bangkok, no reason to get up early, so rest into morning and then stay up late. On farm, must be up early but rest in middle of day. Falang not understand this. You need more rest. 

After another river-view lunch, we retire to the room and rest. J

In the evening we visit the night market which, in the light rain and after the wonderful-but-expensive crafts in the local shops, seems an interminable damp, cramped, progression through stall after stall of Indian and Chinese imitation tourist tat.

I brought $300 in crisp new cash for shopping and food, which I divided equally between Bangkok Guy and myself. I do something similar in Bangkok in respect to drinks and dining. He likes to pay his way where he can afford it, such as taxis and trains, and he likes the appearance of paying for us both. When we return to a restaurant at which he has previously paid and they present him with the bill rather than me, he puffs out just a little.

Bangkok Guy has a mission in the night market while I am just ambling along with rising irritation at the damp and the tat. Gifts for his mother. He is a very good son.

Finally, just at the point where I am about to lose patience and declare a retreat to a dry bar with local snacks, we find two neighboring stalls with genuine local crafts of good quality. Bangkok Guy gives me a smile which is part ‘you can relax now’ and part ‘see, I found it’.

The quality is good and the prices much more reasonable than the shops, especially with Bangkok Guy negotiating. It is interesting to watch him negotiate. He is very thorough in checking the quality and, as he tells me later, he is careful to disown me and truthfully claim poverty. I do not try to benefit from his negotiating efforts – clearly he cannot claim poverty for me – and while I get a very good price I suspect my purchases help him to bargain. “I have brought you the gift of a whale, but as it is my whale and I like it, you can only remove a little skin”.

[CurtisD]

6 hours ago, floridarob said:

where did you guys travel to?

See if you can guess from the entry above. Lots of monks and French pastries.

[lotus123]

1 hour ago, CurtisD said:

See if you can guess from the entry above. Lots of monks and French pastries.

These and other clues point to Luang Prabang. 

[traveller123]

@CurtisD I would agree Luang Prabang.

Curtis I really like your writing style and your easy and thoughful relationship with Bangkok Boy

[GWMinUS]

Please continue on with your Story. Most enjoyable. I am guessing in Laos??

[joshhb]

River, early monks, French cuisine influence, mid-upscale, English menus, night market - it has to be Luang Prabang. It is a great place.

I also do the "sharing money" thing, especially in Bangkok - he is always seen to pay for meals and drinks by the staff.

I did not know that "You need to lelax"  is a standard Thai exaltation.

[Wynter11]

17 hours ago, CurtisD said:He heads to his room and I make a fleeting visit to see the new bars but, being in a hurry, see only two, Lucky Boys and mistakenly go to Fresh Boys rather than Hot Male as intended.

I like the Lucky Boys set-up. Good seating, many guys to suit most tastes and the arrangement of the toilets to allow sightseeing and mingling is cleaver.

I’m curious as to what this means regarding the toilet situation. How does a toilet arrangement encourage mingling? 

[Boy69]

7 hours ago, CurtisD said:

Bangkok Guy is wide awake and this makes me curious about his habit of sleeping until noon. Why do you sleep to noon if you can be so awake in the morning?

 

In general this is common between boys to sleep very late this is why I won't do LT anymore . it's very annoying I had to start my day at noon or later when I like to get up early eat my breakfast and go to the beach,pool ,shopping or sightseeings .

 

[Boy69]

2 minutes ago, Boy69 said:

Delete.

 

 

[CurtisD]

Loyus123, traveller123, GWMinUS, Joshhb - Yes, Luang Prabang. Great place. 

[CurtisD]

2 hours ago, Wynter11 said:

How does a toilet arrangement encourage mingling? 

You can look into it from the corridor and there are mirrors.

[CurtisD]

Return to Bangkok, Shopping & Sightseeing

After several very relaxing days Bangkok Guy is again enveloping my arm as he sleeps on the plane. We part before immigration and agree to meet quite late to give us both a chance to unpack and run errands and, in my case, an opportunity to visit more of the new bars.

First stop is Hot Male where, with a couple of notable exceptions, the guys are a fraction ‘tidied up rough’ for my liking and the host could not be more charming. After explaining that my visit is purely exploratory so no guys this time, this is my first visit since the gay scene’s decampment from Twilight, he becomes an unofficial guide. A whisky in my hand, from the balcony he points out all the other clubs I must visit and gives a little friendly color on what I can expect to find in each, emphasizing that of course, once I have explored, I will want to return to Hot Male! And so I will, with such a charming host.

Dream Boys is good but not what it was. That night at least it lacked the ‘guys for all tastes’ variety that was its strength in Twilight. Only one guy caught my attention, # 60-something. Smooth and perfect defined physique.

Between my overnight trips Bangkok Guy and I spend quite a bit of time together. The high-floor pool at the apartment is a great hit. Fantastic view, plenty of shade so Bangkok Guy does not need to cover up and no one else around.

Despite frustration at our inability to communicate complex ideas due to the language barrier, Bangkok Guy is good company. I research on-line Thai language courses and decide I have to learn Thai. Good intentions. We will see.

We do our usual exploration of jazz bars and discover a new favorite, the lobby bar at the St Regis. The musicians are at the top of the game and the bar woman really knows how to mix a drink. Best Sazerac I have had in a long while.

Bangkok Guy always looks smart in a conservatively casual way but for the first time I think he may need a little wardrobe assistance. I do not like shopping, but having read reports of Icon Siam think it might be worth a look. We go Icon Siam? Yes! So next day we go Icon Siam.

On entry it feels like another bunch of high-brand shops just like duty free in 1000 airports.

Straight in the door, there is Alexander McQueen. $400+ a shirt last time I was unfortunate enough to need one in an emergency with no other choices.

Bangkok Guy understands me well enough to enjoy pulling my chain. He looks at Alexander Mc Queen and then at me with eyebrows raised and a sweet smile. “I like you, but I no Alexander McQueen like you”. He grins and leads me up the escalator

Passing by the Platinum Card brands, our first stop is H&M where he finds a very nice caramel striped collarless shirt, but decides to look further. Next stop is UniQlo. Jack Pot! They are having a sale. I may hate shopping, but I can’t resist a sale if the quality is good. Very nice linen collarless shirts. Bangkok Guy can’t decide which color. There is a discount for two or more. We get three. The new shirts make his trousers look a little dowdy. They have some very smart plaid trousers, also discount for two pair, so we get a dark pair with white and yellow plaid and a grey pair with white plaid. I give him the cash so he can pay for himself. He is very happy.

That last paragraph gives a misleading impression of speed.

I only shop when I have an objective. I find what I am looking for and exit quickly. Bangkok Guy likes shopping. Bangkok Guy checks out all the options. All the options. Even things he is not likely to buy. Partly he enjoys looking. Partly he wants to be sure he gets both quality and a deal. Fine.

I am doing my best to maintain a happy face, but he is no fool. He sees that shopping bores me. However, he knows that I pay attention to how he looks. So at intervals just short enough to avoid me going catatonic he asks my opinion and draws me into the process of deciding in which clothing he looks best. I survive with my good mood stretched but intact.

At checkout Bangkok Guy ends up in his own little que of one. Waiting and waiting. It turns out he has asked for everything to be pressed, which they do for free. 

Now his sneakers do not quite live up to his trousers.

After a rest and fashion show at the apartment – everything fits perfectly and he looks very good – we head to Center World, I think, on a hunt for shoes. Some sort of slip-on. I have a thing for good footwear. Good shoes are the one thing for which I will pay full retail. But not in Bangkok. I set a budget equal to what I would pay back home for a good pair of shoes in a very good sale and set Bangkok Guy loose. After much checking of options and asking my opinion he finds a pair he likes with an Italian name. They are well made. Fully leather lined. Mario Minardi. It turns out they are Indonesian, Italian registered brand. And on sale.

Later that evening we are again enjoying jazz at the St Regis. Bangkok Guy, in cream collarless linen shirt and dark checked trousers, crosses his legs and moves his foot slightly, admiring the shoe. He smiles.  

Our sightseeing highlights are the Museum of Contemporary Art and the King Power rooftop.

Art is my thing. I had no idea what to expect at MoCA and was pretty much blown away by the creativity of what was in many cases a contemporary take on traditional Thai art. Next trip I will visit the contemporary dealer galleries.

If you haven’t been to the King Power viewing deck, go. The view is spectacular. Bangkok Guy and I had great fun photographing each other ‘suspended in air’ on the glass deck. However, the only way out is via a compulsory trek through a supercharged duty free maze fit to bamboozle the Minotaur. Bangkok Guy loved it. So many things to look at. So many things to pull my chain over. He finally took mercy on me and got us out to the footpath. “You safe now” he said grinning, as he slipped his hand into mine.

[CurtisD]

My Place in Bangkok Guy’s Universe

This report has been a while arriving as my connection with Bangkok Guy took a hop, skip and jump, a back step and a glissade toward something more mature.

Mature, God. That has taken me a while to process.

Within reason and the boundaries of the practical I am going with the flow.

The change in his family circumstances added some urgency to his quest for financial security and my invitation to travel with me opened the door to exploring if I might be the answer.

‘You retire soon?’ No.

Ah, but you will retire at some point. Let me sell you on the wonders of my home town. ‘My great aunt can sell land in home town. Very beautiful. I farm. When you retire, I look after”. Followed by a large amount of information on the prices of various agricultural products “Can make money”.

The price seemed quite modest, so either land is extraordinarily cheap or the plot is quite small. Still, it will need capex to develop, so no point in paying up-front. “Ask your great aunt if she will sell to you over three years. Then you can get it productive and paying for itself”. Bangkok Guy smiles “You businessman”.

I do some online research on rural land prices. “How many Rai is land?” Equivalent to one and a half acres it turns out. “That is very small to farm”. “Is enough for me” with a slightly hurt look. I think the full answer is that it is enough land on which to cultivate a Falang boyfriend for the benefit of the family unit.

My intuition that Bangkok Guy may, in part, view me as a high yield crop alternative in no way reflects badly on him. I admire his commitment to his family and I think he would be a caring farmer. I am just not quite ready to be kept under cultivation.

Bangkok Guy is intelligent and knows how to handle me, or possibly his personality just works with mine. Nothing pushy, more gently humorous nudging. On our outbound holiday flight he takes my passport while I complete the immigration form and points at my surname. Apparently “Bangkok Guy Curtis” has a certain cachet.

For several days he develops a slight physical tick, stretching out and admiring the fingers on his left hand, carefully isolating the ring finger. He has beautiful long fingers that curve back like a classical dancer’s. “You have beautiful fingers”. The look in reply strongly suggests I have missed the point.

The next day more finger stretching. In reply I stretch mine – “Yes, I have five fingers too, same same. We have a lot in common”. I receive a stare which is part suppressed smile, part “difficult damn Falang” and part a jab in the ribs.

Back in Bangkok airspace I tick the income box on the immigration form and receive an approving smile and eyebrow wiggle that is almost a standing ovation. I am under appraisal and shaping up well.

Bangkok Guy has several ideas for city businesses and once the mirage of a rural idle is dispensed with these are clearly his preference. He is a city guy. His plan is to get a job in one, learn the ropes and then set up on his own account.

I agree to give him an annual allowance which, by coincidence, is about the price of his great aunt’s land. It is a bit more, and then a bit more again, than I would give him if I made a couple of longer trips to Bangkok a year. Although less remunerative than getting me under permanent cultivation in the countryside it gives him some stability.

If he shows initiative and makes a go of one of his business ideas, I will help him a bit more.

Really, I am shocked at letting myself get drawn in like this.

However he is a very nice, decent guy. I like him and the thought of him scrimping and stressed out, No.

He has agreed to come with me on another trip. So in a few months I will see how his business plans progress. Possibly even learn a little Thai by the next time we meet. We will see.

[Boy69]

23 minutes ago, CurtisD said:

Really, I am shocked at letting myself get drawn in like this

I really don't want to shatter your idyl ,My advice to you is to be very careful with your money he seems very nice boy nevertheless you can never know his real intentions and if all he tells you is true there are to many sad stories with falangs lost sustainable funds to Thai partners.

[CurtisD]

4 minutes ago, Boy69 said:

My advice to you is to be very careful with your money he seems very nice boy nevertheless you can never know his real intentions and if all he tells you is true there are to many sad stories with falangs lost sustainable funds to Thai partners.

Very good advice.

[zoomy02]

As for farang being under cultivation: I once asked a Thai bar boy what his mate had said after a female farang had departed in tears at the end of her holiday- "If we have a good harvest of farang we eat in the low season" was the answer. 

[traveller123]

2 hours ago, CurtisD said:

Very good advice.

Be very cautious and only commit what you can afford to loose.

But also remember for a lot us we have found amazing partners in similar circumstances