the infamous TM30

[faranglaw]

I’ve been reading a great deal lately about the new enforcement of the requirement for landlords to file a TM30 every time a foreign renter or guest leaves their permanent residence. Have any of you run into this? There is a great deal of discussion on Richard Barrow’s blog and in the Bangkok Post. It seems to have developed into quite a headache for everyone involved.

[spoon]

Some discussions on this in this thread

 

[anddy]

8 hours ago, faranglaw said:

I’ve been reading a great deal lately about the new enforcement of the requirement for landlords to file a TM30 every time a foreign renter or guest leaves their permanent residence. Have any of you run into this? There is a great deal of discussion on Richard Barrow’s blog and in the Bangkok Post. It seems to have developed into quite a headache for everyone involved.

yeah I've been reading about it too. Lot of hype and panic it seems.... At my last extension on April 30 nobody even remotely mentioned it at Immigration. Doesn't have to mean anything going forward though, I know. 

But then, it seems impossible to monitor anyway IMO. My landlord obviously doesn't have a clue of when and where I go. Neither does immigration know about my whereabouts (unless I do the TM30 myself). So if nobody knows I'm moving about, then there is no missing TM30 for such unknown movements right? Having said that, if I go to another province and stay at a hotel that hotel will do a TM30, and then immi could reconcile that with a (missing) landlord TM30 upon my return. WIll they do that? I seriously doubt it. If they did find out somehow and bring it up at extension time, worst is paying a fine (maybe 2000) which is probably what all this is about in the first place (or was it national security? Ah yes, all the criminals and illegal immigrants will of course diligently file the TM30's ROFL)

 

[DivineMadman]

For the ordinary tourist TM-30 is irrelevant.  He or she will usually be staying at hotels, which have been filing TM-30 for many years.  The ordinary AirBnB person is probably not staying long enough to file a 90-Day Report.  Anecdotally -- at least in Bangkok -- a short-term stayer who simply wants to extend his 30-day visa-exempt entry is not being checked for TM-30 (but that of course could change).  And Immigration is not checking for.a TM-30 on departure, so for the regular tourist, it's a nothing.

For the longer stays, it does seem to be an issue for people who have an interaction with their local immigration offices.  There are so many hundreds of reports of people being checked for TM-30 compliance at Changwattana and other branches of Immigration, I simply don't believe that they are all under some sort of mass delusion or are lying.  There was even a discussion at the Foreign Correspondents Club about TM-30 with representatives from Thai Immigration.  So it seems very real.  For some people the potential fine is a chunk of change they don;'t want to pay.  

If your landlord doesn't file a TM-30 for you - and that depends on whatever arrangements you may have with your landlord - you can file TM-30 yourself in your capacity as possessor.  Again, if you believe the many, many, many people reporting on their experiences at Changwattana, if their address on their extension of stay does not match the most recent TM-30 or there is no TM-30 on file, extension of stays will not be processed until after being sent off to a special TM-30 compliance circle of hell.  There people can self-file the TM-30 and usually pay a fine.  

Occasionally people seem to have brain farts and get hung up on the idea that the landlord and only the landlord can file.  This is simply not true,.  Self-filing is permitted as "possessor."  And, as mentioned above, how people are handling it.  

There are reports of inconsistent practice within the same Immigration office on whether someone has to re-file a TM-30 after returning home from a stay in another province.  I believe that this was discussed at the Foreign Correspondents Club and the answer from the Immigration officers were, "yes absolutely."

 As I think I mentioned earlier in this thread, there is an app and an online way to register and report, but they are buggy and there's a significant backlog in approvals.  Sort of like Obamacare rollout in the U.S., the technology isn't ready.

Again - solely for people who stay long enough that any of this matters - a painless way to deal is simply to download and print the TM-30 from Immigration and mail it in with a stamped/addressed return envelope and Immigration sends the TM-30 receipt back to you.

[Jasper]

 

TM30: The form getting expats in Thailand into a bureaucratic tangle

•  29 August 2019
•  
• Asia

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-asia-49470726?

[faranglaw]

Thanks all. 

I just hope hope they fix this before I try to move to Thailand with Dear Husband on a retirement visa next year. Sounds like it has become a nightmare for some long stay faring.

[kokopelli]

It really is not a big deal! Just do it the first time you move to your "retirement" home and forget it.

[traveller123]

2 hours ago, faranglaw said:

Thanks all. 

I just hope hope they fix this before I try to move to Thailand with Dear Husband on a retirement visa next year. Sounds like it has become a nightmare for some long stay faring.

Just to try to balance this.

I live with my hubby in Isaan and report to Surin Immigration.

About 3 years ago we called into the office and were told not to worry about completing TM30s

With all the latest publicity last week we went again and we were told we now had (hubby had) to complete a form everytime I spent one night away and returned home.

They were very helpful, did the initial posting, set the reporting up on his phone and showed him how to use it and did not ask him to pay a fine.

We have to go for three nights in BKK next week so it will be interesting to see if he can successfully report me on line back home, if it works I don't envisage any problem in complying.

If it doesn't work then that's another issue as a round trip to the Immigration Office is 150km

 

[spoon]

2 hours ago, traveller123 said:

Just to try to balance this.

I live with my hubby in Isaan and report to Surin Immigration.

About 3 years ago we called into the office and were told not to worry about completing TM30s

With all the latest publicity last week we went again and we were told we now had (hubby had) to complete a form everytime I spent one night away and returned home.

They were very helpful, did the initial posting, set the reporting up on his phone and showed him how to use it and did not ask him to pay a fine.

We have to go for three nights in BKK next week so it will be interesting to see if he can successfully report me on line back home, if it works I don't envisage any problem in complying.

If it doesn't work then that's another issue as a round trip to the Immigration Office is 150km

 

If online system doesnt work, u can just fill in manual form and send by mail and hopes they will receive it.

[NIrishGuy]

No harm to the Thai authorities but if I lived there I think I'd tell them to get stuffed and move and take my money with me !  Talk about how to piss off your expats ! 

if it wasn't for our ( usually) white skin making us so obvious to them I think they'd happily be asking you / us all to wear yellow armbands with a large F for Farang on them next !  

Ridiculous law - and it's aimed at WHO exactly - criminals ? - like they will give a fuck about complying with that !

So, an expat who's lived there maybe 20 years with his partner decides to drive with his Thai wife or husband from one Thai city to another. this being maybe just an hour or two up the road to perhaps visit a sick relative and they they're required to report their every move and their latest whereabouts and where exactly they're staying to the the authorities - for WHAT!?  So they know where we all are !? Are their expats really all THAT dangerous I wonder ? - And this of course in the usual fucked up Thai way that the App they suggest you use doesn't seem to work anyway, their emails are ignored ( apparently) and in the case above it incurs a 150KM round trip to go visit their offices to get the run around even more and maybe a fine if they feel like it  - yeah, fuck THAT ! 

[faranglaw]

12 hours ago, spoon said:

If online system doesnt work, u can just fill in manual form and send by mail and hopes they will receive it.

REGISTERED mail, or so I read.

[NIrishGuy]

16 hours ago, faranglaw said:

REGISTERED mail, or so I read.

What a very smart idea - so the authorities want to keep a check on EXACTLY where each farang in the Country is staying and come up with their super plan to make that happen - so, you go on a bit of a tour with your BF, listing a few cities as you go, staying in each for a night or two, diligently posting off your TM30 in each city as you go, you get home a week later, just as your TM30's are probably arriving at the immigration office ( if you're lucky) , probably then to be ignored by some civil servant for a few days more as then read where you've been but not of course where you ARE ( which one assumes was the whole point)  - a great plan, obviously VERY well thought out - NOT.

Perhaps we could ask could we do away with the TM30 end of things and just send them postcards saying how much we were enjoying our trips in each place instead perhaps ? 

[reader]

From Khaosod English

Gov’t to Scrap Arrival Cards for Foreigners, Introduce TM30 App

BANGKOK — A senior government official said Tuesday foreign visitors will soon no longer have to fill out “TM6” arrival and departure forms.

Kobsak Pootrakool, deputy sec-gen to the Prime Minister, also touted a mobile application in the works for 24-hour reporting under the TM30 form system, which has been a source of controversy in recent months. Kobsak said both changes are designed to attract more visitors and accommodate those already living in the kingdom.

“We made the decision last Friday. Within two to three months, life will be much easier [for foreign tourists and expats],” Kobsak said.

He spoke at a gala dinner to celebrate the fifth anniversary of Elite Plus Magazine at a hotel in Bangkok on Tuesday evening, where audience members included ambassadors from ten or so countries.

Explaining the government’s decision, Kobsak said arrival and departure forms for tourists, known as TM6 forms, have led to a storage problems. The government expects a total of 20 million visitors to Thailand this year.

“[The immigration police] have to have a huge warehouse to store these papers,” Kobsak said, adding that the police rarely look at the information in the forms, which are only stored “just in case.”

He also said the government and the immigration police agreed last Friday to streamline other procedures. Foreigners will be able to report their whereabouts with just “four clicks” on a smartphone to fulfill regulations that require them to report to immigration authorities every 90 days.

But the cherry on top seems to the revelation that the police are developing a mobile phone application for the infamous TM30 form, which requires foreign residents and their Thai landlords to file a report to the police every time the former spends a night outside their registered province.

Tourists are generally exempted from the rule, as the forms are filed by their hotels and accommodation hosts.

Deputy immigration commander Nattapon Sawaengkit confirmed the move on Wednesday when reached for comment, but assigned another officer to explain the details.

The officer, who declined to give his name, gave little information other than hinting that QR codes will likely be used.

“The apps are not finished yet. QR codes will likely be used but it’s not concrete yet. It will likely be on a smartphone,” the officer said.

Continues at

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/news/business/2019/09/18/govt-to-scrap-arrival-cards-for-foreigners-introduce-tm30-app/

[vinapu]

scrapping that card would be nice, not much of nuisance filing it  but one needs to remember to have pen ready.

Bigger problem is constant watch every time passport is pulled out so card will not be missing which happened once to me at one of hotels but card was handily found on the reception floor

I understand missing one may lead to some substantial fine at departure. I still miss Thailand though, sigh

[PeterRS]

1 hour ago, vinapu said:

I understand missing one may lead to some substantial fine at departure. I still miss Thailand though, sigh

Not at all! I turned up at BKK a year or so ago and realised I had lost the outbound part of the TM form. I spoke to an Immigration officer who said it was no problem. He then just handed me another form to fill out. No fuss. No fine.

[vinapu]

Thank you for clarification

[anddy]

9 hours ago, vinapu said:

scrapping that card would be nice, not much of nuisance filing it  but one needs to remember to have pen ready.

Bigger problem is constant watch every time passport is pulled out so card will not be missing which happened once to me at one of hotels but card was handily found on the reception floor

I understand missing one may lead to some substantial fine at departure. I still miss Thailand though, sigh

you can staple the card to your passport to prevent it from falling out. Sometimes immigration officers already do that. Otherwise, your first hotel certainly will have a stapler at reception

9 hours ago, reader said:

“[The immigration police] have to have a huge warehouse to store these papers,” Kobsak said, adding that the police rarely look at the information in the forms, which are only stored “just in case.”

this and the fact that lost TM6 departure card is no issue at all and can be replaced by new one (I have seen this happen at the airports many times) goes to show how utterly use- and pointless the whole TM6 is. There was talk to scrap it when they redesigned and did scrap it for Thai citizens but in the end didn't simply because the TAT (NOT immigration police) wanted to keep it to tally up some tourism statistics. Presumably, zero information from the TM6's is actually collated for any statistics.... so why have this kind of old fashioned paper form? TiT !!

 

[vinapu]

1 hour ago, anddy said:

... so why have this kind of old fashioned paper form? TiT !!

 

not necessarily TiT,

USA and Canada still have those old fashioned paper entry forms in use

[ggobkk]

When I arrived in USA from this lat trip to Thailand, paper form wasn't required - just my passport and ten seconds with the immigration officer telling me "welcome home".  This was SFO which has really simplified the entry process - at least for US citizens.

[martinsen]

On 8/30/2019 at 12:15 PM, kokopelli said:

It really is not a big deal! Just do it the first time you move to your "retirement" home and forget it.

And, what happens if you want to travel anywhere out of your province?  Apparently you do not realize that you must file the TM30 every time you travel.

[martinsen]

On 8/26/2019 at 6:29 PM, anddy said:

My landlord obviously doesn't have a clue of when and where I go. Neither does immigration know about my whereabouts (unless I do the TM30 myself). So if nobody knows I'm moving about, then there is no missing TM30 for such unknown movements right?

 

If you stay overnight in a place you travel to and the landlord/hotel owner files a TM30 then you are in trouble if you have not filed your own TM30 to show you have returned to your residence.

[anddy]

8 hours ago, martinsen said:

If you stay overnight in a place you travel to and the landlord/hotel owner files a TM30 then you are in trouble if you have not filed your own TM30 to show you have returned to your residence.

yeah maybe... provided they actually centrally collate those data and do cross checks as you suggest. I kinda doubt that's happening, but that would be MY risk to take obviously.