Money boy doesn't want money

[JimmyJoe]

This is a new twist for me. My current favorite boy in Pattaya has announced he doesn't want me to give him any more money, because I make him happy...He could almost be my grandson, so, somehow I think money is a big factor for him.

Since there is no such thing as a free lunch, I assume this is a ploy to extract even more from me, one way or another. Anyone else had this experience?

I figure I should  make sure to pay him the usual every day, wouldn't want my debt to him to accumulate.

[spoon]

Some boy says u take care of me, pretty sure an invitation to make you his boyfriend? Or daddy, whatever works hehe. It could turn to a serious thing i suppose, at least thats how i see it. Its one of the thing you probablh need to talk it with the boy coz only he can tell you the truth. It could mean various thing, from the truly i like you and want to be your bf, so you better not go find other boys, or he already made enough money off you and feel guilty to take more money, or simply what u just said, he figured out that doing that will earn him more money in the long run.

[Boy69]

This is certainly not a ploy money boy will never tell you that unless he really likes you or planning to make serious relationship with you.

If I were you I wouldn't pay him every day he might be offended but I will give him the full amount for his service at the end of the trip for his time and tell him you are not paying for the sex with him but to help him for his future.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, spoon said:

Some boy says u take care of me, pretty sure an invitation to make you his boyfriend?

I would think he's angling for a longer term relationship.    He might ask for your e-mail and start asking you for money after you have gone home.  He might also do that with other farang. 

So unless you want a long term relationship with the emotion and possible ongoing expense, perhaps it's best to pay for each transaction as you go.

 

The last time I had a lad "keeping in touch", it was a Filipino.    There were a couple of messages on Skype, then he wanted $80 dollars to see a doctor as he has a cold.  There's no way I could envisage a doctor's visit costing $80 over there.   That would be an hourly rate of $320 !     I told him to get some zinc & vitamin C tablets, like I would for a cold.

Then there was a request for assistance with a rental deposit.    Declined.

Then a picture of some nice but not very durable looking Nike trainers was sent as a big hint before his birthday.

I ceased responding to his correspondence at this point.    

 

[Boy69]

Yes this is an option too it happened to me couple of times before only one time I sent money to the boy and it was a big mistake further endless requests came afterwards so I ceased responding to his correspondence at this point too. 

in OP case I think the best solution is as advised  to pay the boy the total daily fees at the end of the trip and tell him politely that he's doing so to help his future but that's it no promises and no further payments if  the boy requests latter on.

 

[reader]

4 hours ago, JimmyJoe said:

This is a new twist for me. My current favorite boy in Pattaya has announced he doesn't want me to give him any more money, because I make him happy...He could almost be my grandson, so, somehow I think money is a big factor for him.

Since there is no such thing as a free lunch, I assume this is a ploy to extract even more from me, one way or another. Anyone else had this experience?

In 17 years and 40 or so trips, I’ve had three guys ask me via email for money. I told all the three the same thing: when I’m in Bangkok I can help you but I never send anyone money because I need to save it for my next trip. They didn’t ask a second time.

There are a lot of things this young man could be thinking. But if you choose to see the glass as always half empty you’ll never be able to view it as half full.

You’ve come a long way to meet guys unlike those you meet at home. 

Carpe  diem.

 

[sglad]

4 hours ago, Boy69 said:

This is certainly not a ploy money boy will never tell you that unless he really likes you or planning to make serious relationship with you.

You obviously haven't heard the expression throwing a sprat to catch a mackerel (or whale, as the case may well be in Pattaya).

[vinapu]

8 hours ago, JimmyJoe said:

 My current favorite boy in Pattaya has announced he doesn't want me to give him any more money, because I make him happy...

Since there is no such thing as a free lunch, I assume this is a ploy to extract even more from me, one way or another. Anyone else had this experience?

I figure I should  make sure to pay him the usual every day, wouldn't want my debt to him to accumulate.

You may be right in your suspicions but not necessarily so .

While in real life there are free lunches certainly you are not in financial position to extract one from that boy  so yes pay him up and tell him to save that money, whether he will listen is another story and not your problem.I'd pay at end of your time together but make sure you put money for that aside daily so you will not run out of funds.

My experience is mixed.

Once I took Bangkok boy to Pattaya  for few days at his request and all he wanted is to pay off fee to his bar and expenses while in Pattaya. He kept his side of bargain and did not request me to buy him anything costly . At end of trip I gave him my long time rate for each day we were together and he was clearly reluctant to take it but eventually several kisses and few tears later he did, certainly he earned it. I was so moved by him sticking to his word that made mistake of  giving him my e-mail to keep in touch. After few  of ' how are you , missing you every day type" requests for loans or give aways started and not even in small amounts, complete with account number and instructions how to do it.

But I stand my stingy ground. Next time I visited his bar he created kind of scene that I offed other boy , not him and this is where things between us ended. Never heard from him again so I assume he was more upset with me than I with his antics.

 

Other case was completely opposite , I spent few days and night with Cambodian in Siem Reap and gave him my e-mail as well . We exchanged several before things silenced out but never got even smallest hint that he wants anything from me. Whether he was not brave enough to ask or he landed some regular job and decided to leave his MB past behind him by cutting all ties to former life out I will never know.

It's why I say be careful but not paranoid , a lot of those boys are truly generous even if they don't have much to share so they share what they have.

[Guest]

You might have a genuine offer, or perhaps he has a good understanding of reciprocation tendency & expects to make it back several times over as you feel gratitude later.

Reciprocation Bias:   “There are slavish souls who carry their appreciation for favours done them so far that they strangle themselves with the rope of gratitude.”        —Friedrich Nietzsche

Paying him when he leaves should avoid complications.

 

[JimmyJoe]

Thanks for all the insightful and very helpful input, guys.

In the past I’ve sometimes received money requests from boys after returning home. I never sent money. I don't intend to this time either.

I get the impression he’s desperate to find a boyfriend to take care of him. He seems equally desperate to avoid having to work as a money boy in a bar. He tells me he started work in the bar (he’s a recent recruit) because his friend from home said that was how he could find a girlfriend, sic Google. I said “So?” He said, I found many men, but no one loved me.

Anyway, I guess I’ll make him a lump sum payment on last day rather than each day. This does seriously jeopardize my inveterate butterfly ways. But, in addition to being my ideal in outward appearance, he syncs perfectly with my needs/desires. The first I've met who does.

And yes, Reader,  your points are well taken. Carpe Diem it will be.

[Londoner]

I always gave the average amount for an off....1000- 1300 bht.  I recall two occasions when the guy said, no, that's too much.  I persuaded both to accept it!

[Boy69]

 

If the boy  perfectly fulfill your needs and desires It's absolutely normal to have him for LT with you.

Yes it seems the boy is desperate to go out from the bar scene and find steady boyfriend so you have to be very careful with him not to hurt his feelings but at the other hand not to make any promises to avoid false expectations at boy side.

 

[anddy]

13 hours ago, JimmyJoe said:

[   ] how he could find a girlfriend, sic Google. [...]

yes google it is... The Thai word used here is แฟน or fan (like football fan, not a ventilator lol) which does mean girlfriend AND/OR boyfriend but has no gender so you need context to work out which. So it's similar to the genderless "lover" or even "spouse" in English. 

[Travellerdave]

3 hours ago, Boy69 said:

 

If the boy  perfectly fulfill your needs and desires It's absolutely normal to have him for LT with you.

Yes it seems the boy is desperate to go out from the bar scene and find steady boyfriend so you have to be very careful with him not to hurt his feelings but at the other hand not to make any promises to avoid false expectations at boy side.

 

I’ve been a daddy on several occasions and agree with Boy69 that you have to be careful in the relationship. Thai boys can be unstable and as we all know “face” is so important to Thais.

They can get very angry when being dumped. I had to leave Pattaya in a hurry once when I terminated a boy that I had had with me for about 10 days. He came back to the Ambiance and banged on my door. I was in bed with another boy and he went into a rage threatening me with violence. I only got rid of him by giving him a good amount of baht. I immediately checked out and caught the first bus in the morning to Bkk and spent the remainder of my trip there. I should have recognised signs that he regarded our relationship as daddy/son.

[JimmyJoe]

6 hours ago, Travellerdave said:

Thai boys can be unstable and as we all know “face” is so important to Thais.

They can get very angry when being dumped.

This is so true and a source of concern here. I also once had extreme drama with a boy who came banging on my bedroom window at 6 am, drunk, while I was with another boy. It wasn't simple. At least he wasn't physically violent. You said the three key words: unstable, face and anger.

This boy already seems unstable to me. I'm not making him any promises and I've also taken to daily payment. He's accepted that I'm "helping him".

Interestingly, I've gotten him now in the habit of sleeping in his room some nights, leaving me free to roam and explore. He doesn't like it, but he is of the extremely docile kind. So, if I say: I do not see you tonight, he accepts. Afterwards, he sends me a steady stream of messages and stickers all evening, asking when we meet,  which I do not respond to. But at least he doesn't come over and bang on the window, yet.

[JimmyJoe]

9 hours ago, anddy said:

แฟน or fan

So it's similar to the genderless "lover" or even "spouse" in English. 

Thanks for that. I've often seen the Google "girlfriend" and figured  more context was needed to translate. But now with, your reference to some English examples, it makes perfect sense.

[vinapu]

9 hours ago, Travellerdave said:

 

They can get very angry when being dumped. I had to leave Pattaya in a hurry once when I terminated a boy that I had had with me for about 10 days. 

butterflying has it's own advantages.

It pay to watch for signs when guy becomes a bit possessive and trying to implement his own agenda and day schedule on us, it may lead to troubles in near future so it's better to act fast to lose strings he is weaving.

[Guest]

14 hours ago, vinapu said:

butterflying has it's own advantages.

It pay to watch for signs when guy becomes a bit possessive and trying to implement his own agenda and day schedule on us, it may lead to troubles in near future so it's better to act fast to lose strings he is weaving.

Now there is very good advice.

Even if I intend to see a boy several times, it is usually in rotation and rarely on consecutive nights.   I think this reduces complacency and certainly is one way of following Vinapu's advice of keeping the strings loose.

I know of others who usually operate like that.

 

The last time I had the same guy several days in a row was probably about 2011 & he was very keen to do long time, then hang around all day until the next long time session.   Thankfully this one didn't do any drama. 

The following year, he had a boyfriend.    I remember us having a conversation, which he insisted on having behind the toilet block at Jomtien, to be out of the line of sight of his boyfriend.   He was asking me to do short time, immediately after returning from the beach, obviously without the knowledge of his BF.    Wanting long time, I declined.

[vinapu]

33 minutes ago, z909 said:

 

....... following Vinapu's advice of keeping the strings loose.

 

it's more about making sure that we control situation all the time, not necessarily even to show of who is in charge.

If I had boy with me whole day and wanted massage, say at Arena , he 'd have only to options - go with me there and wait until I'm done  or go his own way for 2 hours until I'm back.

Scene ' I don't want you to go there ' would be not only not acceptable but also warning sign of implementing his agenda which for me equals to spoiling my vacation day.

Fortunately this happens very rarely , they know their position as neatly summarized by one of Tawan boys. After particularly active night I asked him  whether he had a bit of good sleep and answer was to the point ' no, but you don't pay me to sleep' .

 

 

[Boy69]

Long term can be a very difficult situation : the boy like to sleep till noon but you get up early, you like the beach but the boy is into indoor activities,You like to go to see movies but he prefers to watch on TV Thai channels only , You into Western food but he eats only Thai dishes and so on...

It's not as easy as many thinks to be with the same boy all day every day.

[DivineMadman]

I've traveled with guys a lot - in and around Thailand and SE Asia and beyond (well, Bali a few times).  I think it is important to be considerate of your traveling partner.  It may be "your" vacation, and you may be paying, but you're traveling with a human being who deserves respect.  They're not disposable travel accessories.

I have a friend who is a great guy, sends all his money home, lives in a shared apartment with no A/C.  Doesn't really get to travel very much.  A customer took him to a nice destination, but they never left the resort.  His customer didn't like the hot weather.  And his customer told him he didn't want to go to the gym or the beach at the resort.  I felt so bad for the guy.  A little sightseeing would have been such a nice simple gesture and made him so happy.

Also, for what it is worth, I think there's a lot of data out there that supports the view that thinking and caring about the "other" person maximizes your own happiness.

[vinapu]

2 hours ago, DivineMadman said:

A customer took him to a nice destination, but they never left the resort.  His customer didn't like the hot weather.  And his customer told him he didn't want to go to the gym or the beach at the resort.  

 

 

If if was customer who invited him, you are 100% right he could do better by respecting your friend's needs  and treating him like guest trying to find what he likes.

If it was your friend idea and somehow he manipulated his customer to take him there ( which is OP suspicion in his case above )I see very little wrong here - customer afforded his companion the same sort of vacations he took for himself, boring but airconditioned

[JimmyJoe]

7 hours ago, z909 said:

Even if I intend to see a boy several times, it is usually in rotation and rarely on consecutive nights.   I think this reduces complacency and certainly is one way of following Vinapu's advice of keeping the strings loose.

This I have found an essential policy. If I organize a rotation and never the same boy on two consecutive nights, things go more smoothly. They don't start taking me for granted and they can't gain the upper hand they often seek.

 

[JimmyJoe]

6 hours ago, vinapu said:

summarized by one of Tawan boys. After particularly active night I asked him  whether he had a bit of good sleep and answer was to the point ' no, but you don't pay me to sleep'

More times than not, I realize at some point very early morning that the boy I offed for LT the night before is lying quietly, patiently next to me, with his eyes closed, waiting for me to wake up. I guess, sometimes, not having slept at all, or only fitfully, since their schedule is the opposite of mine. I also notice, if the waiting goes on too long after dawn, they use various subtle, or not-so-subtle, tricks to wake me up. I don't ask them how they slept. I do admire their patience, usually, depending on how long they wait to prod me, or cough, or drop something

[TotallyOz]

3 hours ago, DivineMadman said:

Also, for what it is worth, I think there's a lot of data out there that supports the view that thinking and caring about the "other" person maximizes your own happiness.

So easy and so relevant.