HOW TO SELECT BOYS THAT PERFORM (DISCUSSION)

[Guest]

I figured this was worthy of its own topic.  [The thread title is a bastardisation of a book title]

Some of us look for eye contact in a gogo bar.      Others point out this is not a golden rule, which of course is correct, as eye contact cannot be a 100% reliable indicator.   Whether it tips the odds in your favour is the question.

 

On 6/17/2019 at 1:14 PM, vinapu said:

I still rather prefer to look for that smile directed at me as perfect body shape and hard work avoiding an eye contact doesn't do much good for me other than saving unspent money.  

 

6 hours ago, Boy69 said:

It's not a golden rule. Some boys that avoided making an eye contact  were great and even developed to LT it turned out that they were too shine to make a straight eye contact with me. In the contrary some of the boys that did make eye contact and showed enthusiasm turned to be a disaster in bed they just knew how to 'sell' themself for an off.

It's very difficult to predict how the boy will turn out to be from first impression.

I'm sure this is right.   However, if a boy cannot bear to look at me, I am naturally thinking it's not going to get any better in the hotel room.

 

Assuming the gogo bar lighting allows the boy to see the customer, I would place behaviour into one of 4 categories:

A Boy smiles naturally when he notices customer looking at him & continues to make eye contact.

B Boy makes forced smile and forced eye contact.    

C Boy is oblivious to customers and makes no eye contact.  

D  Boy notices customer eye contact and immediately is looking away & avoiding further eye contact.    

If it's a D, I assume the worst & he almost always gets left on stage.    Bear in mind, if we are in Bangkok, it might cost 400 baht to have him sit with me & see if he's any more enthusiastic. 

I am looking for an A, but if the selection is not great and there is a very good looking boy in category B or C, then I may be flexible.   [Beware that in places like Winner Boys Pattaya, too much eye contact can result in the boy sitting with you without being invited.]

 

The best ways I have to improve success in gogo bars are:

1   If the boy contacts you on Grindr and invites you to the bar to off him.   This is an opportunity to confirm what he would have to do to get his tip AND what the tip would be.  Then go to the bar to see what the boy is like.    Have had good results like this.     However, the percentage of boys actively on Grindr when you are about to visit the bar is small.

2  Have the boy sit with you, discuss what he does.   Look for answers that are clear & without hesitation, plus him sitting very close to you & making contact.   Sitting 6 inches away is a bad sign.   Sitting in contact & perhaps kissing you is a very good sign.    The downside here is if this is in Bangkok, it's costing ~400 baht per boy to audition like this.   

3 I look for eye contact, as above.

4  I keep notes.   One example, not in a gogo, but a nice & familiar looking Jomtien boy contacted me on Hornet. Promising to do everything.   Then I realised there was a conversation from 2 years earlier.   Noting that I had offed him, I checked my notes.   He previously refused to suck, despite promising it.     I reminded him of this and asked if he will suck now.   Still waiting for his reply.   

The notes are always in the Android "Color Note" app, so these synch & can be accessed from my phone or tablet anywhere.   The other advantages of "Color Note" for the note taking are: (i) No chance of leaving your notebook around when visitors are at your home.   (ii) Easy to cut & paste in to Excel, for a quick scan & recap before your next holidays.      The notes should include the name of the boy, where he is from, the age, what you tipped & how good he was in bed.    

5 Off boys who have been good in the past (note keeping is useful again)

6 Reviews by others -Be careful to interpret the review carefully.    If you are top and the other guy is a bottom, read across may be limited.     I've even noticed arguments where some members report good success  & others the exact opposite.   A good proportion of this seems to be due the boys being quite happy as the top, but not at all keen as the bottom or with kissing & sucking.  

7   Bypass the gogo bar & use the phone apps.  In this case, make it damn clear that if he doesn't do X, Y and Z, he's not getting a tip.     I've had a small percentage of boys promise to do everything, but becoming quite indignant when they realise they will actually have to honour promises to get paid.   We never meet, which is the best result.     The big risk with phone apps is the appearance of the boy. Check EVERY photo.    Tell him if he needs to look exactly like the photo and send him away with nothing if there is a substantial deviation.   Others suggest a Skype video conversation.

8  Beware of poor English skills.    I had severe difficulties discussing the deal with one lad in Cambodia on Grindr, but when he showed up, it turned out he was at University doing English.   He spoke good English and was just trying to avoid agreeing to do things.    Most boys will quickly learn the vocabulary required to ply their trade.   

9   Perhaps we should make more use of the Boy review thread on the board ?    But perhaps I should contribute more to it first !    [Perhaps access should also be for members with a certain number of posts, so that reviews cannot be found by anyone with a google search.    We might just get more reviews posted if access is limited]

10   Beware of boys changing their profile too often.     The good boys can use the same photos and same profile to get repeat offs.    The lesser ones don't get repeat offs, so need to try their luck with changed appearance.    Not a hard & fast rule, but one to consider. 

 

Of course, none of this is 100% reliable & I like to learn.   Hence a thread to share ideas.

[ggobkk]

Thanks Z909

This should be included in the Timeless forum...I might rank your insights in a different order but that’s just me. I’m a A-5.

 

[Boy69]

 Your division to 4 categories is very accurate but unfortunately isn't relevant for me because I am very picky and won't take a boy if he is not beutiful slim twink, between 18 to 22 y.o. , smooth and light skin this is why many times I don't off any boy from a bar or on line because I didn't find what I am looking for .however if I find the boy I want I will take him no matter to which category between A to D he belongs to . You are certainly correct the best boys I had belong to A type but there were nice surprises with other categories too.it's really difficult to predict how the boy will be in bed from first impression.

The 10 advices you mentioned are excellent and I agree with ggobkk should be included in the Timeless forum.

[paborn]

This is very good indeed. I do , however, limit my note taking to the same trip - going only once a year limits my resets as boys change. I would comment : 400BHT spent on a drink to find that a guy is not compatible is money well spent and saves you at the end of the night.

 

[spoon]

38 minutes ago, Boy69 said:

 Your division to 4 categories is very accurate but unfortunately isn't relevant for me because I am very picky and won't take a boy if he is not beutiful slim twink, between 18 to 22 y.o. , smooth and light skin this is why many times I don't off any boy from a bar or on line because I didn't find what I am looking for .however if I find the boy I want I will take him no matter to which category between A to D he belongs to . You are certainly correct the best boys I had belong to A type but there were nice surprises with other categories too.it's really difficult to predict how the boy will be in bed from first impression.

The 10 advices you mentioned are excellent and I agree with ggobkk should be included in the Timeless forum.

I would say mine is exactly the same as yours, i am very picky with boys, that i sometimes return to hotel not offing anyone, or left a full service massage place not choosing one ( rarely happened in thailand fortunately). I too will take boys that fits my criteria without worrying if he give me a smile or not. Heck, at home, i even repeat a poor performance guy who fits my criteria just to see if the first was just his bad day or it was me who didnt make it clear what i want and how much ill pay. If any of the boys i like also smiles at me, or give eye contact or very intimate when seating with me, then its a bonus. Sometimes they are shy in bar, but back in hotel, its a different story.

I usually have few different mood when i go out for bars/massages. Most of the time, i only go when im horny lol. This usually results in me seeking the proven performers based on my previous experiences, and if there is none, will be based on reviews ive read from here or from PMs. Sometimes im in the mood of the boyfriend experiences, so this means finding someone that i like and will likely reciprocate, so itll have to be in the bar, sitting with me, drinks, tips, discussions etc. And almost always, it has to be a long time off, and their english should be reasonable acceptable. And sometimes i am in the mood of exploring and trying new guys. This is when ill be more flexible with my choices, go with the flow, trying to find one thing about the boy that could attract me to him, while overlooking some of the thing i might not like. 

Ive done all 3 in bangkok and pattaya, and all 3 have mixed results, but cant recall one that i truly regret though. When i must have good experience, a repeat off from regular rarely disappoint. Bf experiences can be easily assess in the bar, and almost always the fun part are usually enhanced due to the chemistry. And when in exploratory mood, i set my expectation low, so any good experiences will be a surprise for me and a bonus, and the boy will become my regular in the future. 

From my limited experience, when i didnt take a guy off, its either because i want long time and the boy didnt do long time and i have other choices or give many excuses about going long time. If the boy say he wont do long time, and i dont see other choices, ill do short time with him. If the boy give excuses, even when i try to schedule a different night, he is off my list. Other than that, boys who gets to sit with me almost always ended up with an off, even when haggling is needed, which i can be flexible too depending on how much i value his quality lol. 

[DivineMadman]

1.  Don't over-think.  

2.  Be open.

3.  Be kind.

4.  Have fun.

 

[kokopelli]

Gad, if I had to go through all steps outlined above, I would never off anyone. I prefer DivineMadman's approach.

 

Gad, an American expression :

used to express surprise, disgust, etc.: a mild oath

[vinapu]

28 minutes ago, kokopelli said:

 if I had to go through all steps outlined above, I would never off anyone. 

 

probably we go through most of those steps just without realizing it

[floridarob]

I often wonder what it would be like if the boys had a criteria to pick US.....how many of us would pass muster, lol

I know they talk about us with their friends, coworkers.....maybe they have their own site where they talk about their customers (new site idea Mike, lol)

I know they do this willingly , for the most part.....but the scams (lies) have gotten bigger and more frequent than years ago,,,, maybe the shared learning from their site?

I've been to MANY places where there are these type of places for hookups (client/boy)....I have to say I feel the most for the guys in Thailand (Viet, Thai, Cambodian, etc...) Many are treated so poorly, publicly examined  and expected to do so much ....I know we all grow old....but many don't do it gracefully (looks/attitude/hygiene) and Thailand seems to attract these types from all over.

 

I know, I know...there will be lovely stories about how many have been "rescued" or treated so well with money and gifts beyond their dreams...blah, blah, blah. But they have become more calloused from so many lies and promises from Farangs ....and no one here thinks they do this......but do we?

[Boy69]

5 hours ago, floridarob said:

I often wonder what it would be like if the boys had a criteria to pick US.....how many of us would pass muster, lol

I know they talk about us with their friends, coworkers.....maybe they have their own site where they talk about their customers (new site idea Mike, lol)

I know they do this willingly , for the most part.....but the scams (lies) have gotten bigger and more frequent than years ago,,,, maybe the shared learning from their site?

I've been to MANY places where there are these type of places for hookups (client/boy)....I have to say I feel the most for the guys in Thailand (Viet, Thai, Cambodian, etc...) Many are treated so poorly, publicly examined  and expected to do so much ....I know we all grow old....but many don't do it gracefully (looks/attitude/hygiene) and Thailand seems to attract these types from all over.

 

I know, I know...there will be lovely stories about how many have been "rescued" or treated so well with money and gifts beyond their dreams...blah, blah, blah. But they have become more calloused from so many lies and promises from Farangs ....and no one here thinks they do this......but do we?

Lies and false promises are coming from both side , Boys are trying to extract as more money as they can from their clients and the Farangs are trying to extract the best from the boys for their money. From many trips at the last 20 years I saw everything no one is saint .

[paborn]

13 hours ago, floridarob said:

I often wonder what it would be like if the boys had a criteria to pick US.....how many of us would pass muster, lol

I know they talk about us with their friends, coworkers.....maybe they have their own site where they talk about their customers (new site idea Mike, lol)

I know they do this willingly , for the most part.....but the scams (lies) have gotten bigger and more frequent than years ago,,,, maybe the shared learning from their site?

I've been to MANY places where there are these type of places for hookups (client/boy)....I have to say I feel the most for the guys in Thailand (Viet, Thai, Cambodian, etc...) Many are treated so poorly, publicly examined  and expected to do so much ....I know we all grow old....but many don't do it gracefully (looks/attitude/hygiene) and Thailand seems to attract these types from all over.

 

I know, I know...there will be lovely stories about how many have been "rescued" or treated so well with money and gifts beyond their dreams...blah, blah, blah. But they have become more calloused from so many lies and promises from Farangs ....and no one here thinks they do this......but do we?

Re-read Divine Madman's comment and think of it as reverse engineering  but remember that kind" includes generous. 

[Guest]

On 6/23/2019 at 4:00 PM, Boy69 said:

 You are certainly correct the best boys I had belong to A type but there were nice surprises with other categories too.it's really difficult to predict how the boy will be in bed from first impression.

Yes.   Nothing is 100% reliable.  

1  I was hoping a few more of you guys would pitch in with ideas, experiences & anecdotes.

2  Regarding the list being too long & complicated,   I kind of TRY to make this something I do automatically, without thinking, same as like riding a bike.    Of course I sometimes take "short cuts" or screw up with or without my "list".     Also, if doing long time, he might be with me for 10~12 hours.   So the selection process is worth a few minutes of thought.   

3  I was also thinking about a separate later thread for "How to treat your boy to get the best possible experience".   Naturally, being considerate to him helps....

 

[floridarob]

20 hours ago, Boy69 said:

Lies and false promises are coming from both side , Boys are trying to extract as more money as they can from their clients and the Farangs are trying to extract the best from the boys for their money. From many trips at the last 20 years I saw everything no one is saint .

Me too, 20 + yrs....why do customers seem to critique the boys in Thailand MUCH more than any other place I've been.....very direct and rude at times, is that because Thai's are direct and is fair play.....just don't feel comfortable when I hear comments like "he's ugly with those tattoos" or He's too fat/chubby, yet the person making the comment is a cow....wtf?

[witty]

It's called freedom of speech,  whether you like it or not. 

[CurtisD]

Now the original thread has moved to the Timeless section I do not seem to be able to add another comment.

Hopefully someone more tech savvy than me can connect this to the original thread. 

 

While I do not think there is any way to guarantee a good experience, there are a few things that can be done to improve the chances of one, many of which are expanding on the points listed by DivineMadman.

The description below indicates something fairly obvious.

A majority of the factors determining whether or not we have a good experience are up to us, not up to the guy. Unless we recognize this, criticizing the guys is pointless and cheap.

The success of the evening depends on two phases.

(i)                Selecting the guy in the club.

(ii)              The relationship established with the guy after selecting him.

I have structured a lot of deals in my time. When they go bad it is almost never about aspects of the technical structuring. Bad deals usually reflect poor understanding of the human element.

This goes quadruple for an interpersonal transaction like an off.

Yes you are paying, but this does not make you god, dictator, puppet master or even desirable for the duration.

The payment only gets the guy into the bedroom.

How well he does what you would like him to do depends on how you treat him and how you make him feel. This is not finance. This is recognition, esteem and a human connection.

(A)    In the Club

Selecting a guy in the club is the more ‘technical’ part of the evening.

More information is better than less information, so I enlist the help of the mamasans. I have a much higher success rate when I use the mamasans for information than when I wing it. Their input helps to narrow the field to guys who are most likely to be compatible.

I addition to checking which guys are gay and who does what, I also ask who has already had an off that evening as while the guys have the energy of youth they are not supermen.

In terms of the guy’s behavior on stage, on a scale of no-eye-contact-immersed-in-cell-phone to wagging-erect-dick-in-face, I have had the best connection with guys who make eye contact and smile but who are not overt about it. They are watching you, so when you look at them and make eye contact they smile back, but they are not blatantly trying to get your attention. Maybe they are a bit shy or they are simply not extraverts. I find this a better indicator of real interest than a guy who too-actively markets himself.

I agree with Paborn that the price of a drink to get to know a guy better is money well spent. Facetime with a guy gives you a lot of clues as to how compatible you might be.

More so if you are not drunk. If my mission for the evening is to off a guy I do not drink alcohol, or drink very little, until I have chosen a guy. A major life lesson has been that alcohol impairs judgement. My only bad experiences picking up guys generally, not just Thailand, have been when I had a few too many drinks in me.

(B)    After Leaving the Club

Now you have chosen a guy and sealed a deal, it is totally up to you how things work out.

You now have to get the guy into a zone in which he is happy to be with you.

This is personal chemistry not money.

At its most basic this is showing an interest in him, showing him respect, consideration and making him comfortable.

Ask him if he is hungry and, if he is, offer to buy him something. I make it clear I am not hungry, this is for him. Then he is likely to pick some street food he likes and he is comfortable. If I suggest I am also hungry a guy is likely to think we have to go somewhere I like, which may not be so much to his taste. This is about helping him to be comfortable, not feeding me.

Find something to admire in his street outfit and complement him.

Back in the hotel ask him if he would like a drink.

Be the first to suggest a shower. Thai guys are into clean.

Have a spare tooth brush for him to use and suggest it is ok if he wants to experiment with any of your products.

Take his lead on whether or not he wants to shower together. Some guys, particularly bottoms, may want privacy to prep themselves.

The infallible indicator of a successful evening to come is if the guy returns from the bathroom erect.

In bed spend time on foreplay and check again what he does and does not do. If he is comfortable with you his repertoire may have expanded since the club.

You get the picture.

Your experience is really “up to you”.

 

 

[TotallyOz]

I didn't know members could not reply to threads here. I have changed that. (I think)

[Guest]

Thanks for fixing that Michael. 

I also agree that even at 400 baht, it's worth investing in a drink to see if a boy is worth an off.   However, in a perfect world I would want to have a high percentage of "right first time" picks, since it minimises the amount of 400 baht drinks being purchased, with boy tip on top and there is less loss of face if offing the third choice pick from the stage.    But of course, I would much rather take the third guy than leave with a dud.

Do any other members have good tricks to select good boys first time ?

 

Curtis D has posted some good advice & I follow nearly every bit of it.

Regarding hygiene, I shower thoroughly & change clothes before going out to the bars, as well as when coming back.   I also use mouthwash with a good long rinse before going to the bars & when coming back.  The "cheaper" Colgate mouthwash brands don't seem quite as effective at freshening up, so I now splash out on the better stuff from Listerine.  

When the boy has left, I make notes on the "Color Note" app on my phone.   Name, age, where he is from, what he is like, how it went & what the tip was.   Then if I see him 2 years later, there is a better chance of impressing by remembering his name and I can repeat the good ones & not the duds.    

[ChristianPFC]

On 6/23/2019 at 1:44 PM, z909 said:

9   Perhaps we should make more use of the Boy review thread on the board ?    But perhaps I should contribute more to it first !    [Perhaps access should also be for members with a certain number of posts, so that reviews cannot be found by anyone with a google search.    We might just get more reviews posted if access is limited]

Absolutely! I love reading about other's experiences and to share my own, but there has to be some privacy. I will continue trying to revive the gay online dating forum on sawatdeenetwork (now visible to members only), and will do the same here as soon as it gets members only.

My following thoughts refer to gogo bars in Pattaya (Bangkok has gotten too expensive to go there regularly).

I have gotten better over the year in selecting boys, and now half of my offs are okay (the lure of a new boy who might be better is bigger than taking this one again) and half are good (I will surely see him again). Half are repeat and half are new.

I don’t care about eye contact and smile, but observer their behaviour with other boys or customers.

Poor performing boy might get a second chance if he has a great body.

Given the high number of boys I go through each year, I sometimes have to refer to my notes to decide whether to take a boy again or not.

I don’t discuss activities or money in advance. I pay the going rate (1000 ST in Pattaya) and am quite flexible when it comes to activities in bed.

Despite all the advantages of online dating, when I find a boy online and he works in a bar, I rather go to see him there.

The boy keeping the same online dating account, Line account, phone number for long time is a good sign; frequent changing is a bad sign (at best that the boy is poorly organized, then he will probably have space-time-coordination problems as well).

In online dating, delay time is important as well. To test delay time, I even do small talk.

[Guest]

7 hours ago, ChristianPFC said:

Absolutely! I love reading about other's experiences and to share my own, but there has to be some privacy. I will continue trying to revive the gay online dating forum on sawatdeenetwork (now visible to members only), and will do the same here as soon as it gets members only.

I agree.   Boy reviews need to be on a members only forum, since the boy needs to be identified to make it useful. ie Typically with a photo to make identification permanent after he's changed his username a few times.     Preferably on a forum accessible only to members who have made a number of posts.   

Incidentally, I also would have no objections if the boys reviewed customers in a similar way on some other site, as long as it was members only & preferably Thai language.    So no double standards !

[vinapu]

5 hours ago, z909 said:

 

Incidentally, I also would have no objections if the boys reviewed customers in a similar way on some other site, as long as it was members only & preferably Thai language.    So no double standards !

I'd object if they wanted to post our pictures identyfying us as their customers. In some countries it may lead to legal problems

[Guest]

5 hours ago, vinapu said:

I'd object if they wanted to post our pictures identyfying us as their customers. In some countries it may lead to legal problems

Well, in those  totalitarian states that ban consenting adults from engaging in paid for sex, yes.    Sweden for example.     Whatever happened to liberty and freedom of choice ?

If Thai bar boys wanted to review me as a customer, on a members only site, I wouldn't be loosing much sleep over it.  Providing the review was fair.

 

[vinapu]

10 minutes ago, z909 said:

Well, in those  totalitarian states that ban consenting adults from engaging in paid for sex, yes.    Sweden for example.    

this is exactly what I had in  mind. I'd not call Sweden totalitarian state but that law certainly is.