What would you have done? (Tipping)

[jason1975]

Last night, I was at Lucky Boys. Called for bill and paid 750 baht for my drink and boy off fee with a 1000 baht note. I was seated with a mamasan who had served me the past 2 nights. Waiter came back and another mamasan also appeared. This particular mamasan would come and sit next to me occasionally (usually when the younger mamasan was away with other customers).

He made the usual small talk - “where are you from? How many days you stay?” and throughout the night - “which boy you like?” Absolutely didn’t get my hint that I didn’t want to deal with him. I arranged my off with the younger mamasan. I think the only useful thing the older mamasan did was to clear my ashtray but even then, he didn’t do it himself. He ordered a waiter over to clear it!

So there I was waiting for my boy to get changed. Younger mamasan was seated next to me. The change of 250 baht came back in the following denomination:

One ten baht coin

Two twenty baht notes

Two hundred baht notes

I gave the twenty baht notes to waiter and mamasan while I kept the hundred baht notes. Mamasan was upset! He gave his twenty baht note to the waiter! And he continued standing there and looking at me, expecting me to tip him one of the hundred baht notes. I didn’t know how to react then. Younger mamasan, with great situational awareness far beyond his age, quickly blurted out, “Your boy is ready. Let me bring you out.”

I did not want my night to be ruined so I pushed the incident out of my mind and left the bar to enjoy the night with my boy. By the way, I tipped the younger mamasan 100 baht at the door. This was on top of the 100 baht that I had earlier tipped him for helping me the whole night.

Thinking back, in the first place, maybe I should have kept all of the 250 baht change and leave. But on the other hand, perhaps the older waiter felt insulted that he got a tip of the same amount as the waiter. Maybe it is a Thai societal hierarchy thing.

My question to fellow forum members - what would you have done and why?

 

 

 

 

[abidismaili]

I find it hard to refuse the requests for tips from mamasans who come sit next to me on their own request.  Not because I asked them to do that.  For me this is very rude to ask then for a tip for a service you never requested. They force a service upon you and then expect a tip while you didn't ask for it.

It is like I see you crossing the street. I run to you. Hold your arm and we cross together and then ask you a tip for this. While you didn't ask for my help. It should be illegal. It's extortion.  

I left Hotmale bar last night because of the extreme demand for tipping. They more or less force you to tip every boy in the show and every mamasan. The show boys go into the public with their hard cock and want you to touch it and then expect a 100 baht tip. If you say "No" they keep asking, also rude: a no answer is not respected really, they keep asking.  All of them that are on stage come to you for a tip. Then the mamasans who ask for tips and drinks. It was becoming so extreme that I left. Very rude behaviour. Never again Hotmale bar for me. Feels horrible. 

Sometimes I can resist however.  Sometimes I can't. I pay half the time, but I prefer 0 of the time. Unless in these rare cases that I request a service. But to be honest I am perfectly capable myself to wave a boy over to sit with me and to ask the waiter for the bill.

I do notice your bill was only 750. You didn't buy the boy a drink? I am always asked to do that when I have a boy over. 

[Guest]

I discourage mamasans from sitting next to me.     

If they sit there uninvited, they get no tip.  

If they are slow to go away, they are even more certainly getting no tip.

If I know the mamasans in a particular bar are pushy,  I am mentally prepared for it before going in the bar.  1  NO MAMASAN TIPS     2 I try to choose a seating position where it is difficult for them to sit next to me.       [I did read that Lucky Boys is a merger of Classic Boys and X-Boys & Classic Boys mamasans had a bit of a reputation for being obnoxiously pushy.   Perhaps some of that culture transferred ?]

When I have made the mistake of tipping in such places, they always want more.   Such as claiming the 100 baht tip in the wallet is for the bar and not the waiter, so asking for more.  Even if I say that's for you, they still push for more.   Since they are just money grabbing scum and in no way grateful, I just resolve to tip nothing next time.    Giving them the idea that you tip seems to make them smell the opportunity for more money.  

On a RARE occasion, I might tip a mamasan if they stay out of the way, but are helpful when needed.

 

So my recommendation is for you to never tip the mamasans in Lucky Boys ever again.     And above all else, put the matter out of your mind.  Don't let a few parasitic mamasans spoil a great experience. 

Incidentally, how did you get away with a 750 baht bill ?      I thought 600 for off fees & 400 for drinks was typical.    So nearer 1400 for 2 drinks and an off.   750 is more like a Sunee Plaza bill.

[abidismaili]

A drink is 350. The off fee 400. So his bill was 750. But I not understand why there is no boy drink. I am more or less forced to buy the boy a drink also. 

[jason1975]

4 minutes ago, abidismaili said:

A drink is 350. The off fee 400. So his bill was 750. But I not understand why there is no boy drink. I am more or less forced to buy the boy a drink also. 

No need to buy boy drink as I was with the very helpful younger mamasan! Lol!

[Boy69]

You don't need to be upset rude pushy mamasans are not extinct species unfortunately ,You tip the younger mamasan that was freindly and helpful it's enough . Once I see rude/pushy mamasans I  just making my frozzen look to them and they leave me alone .

Regarding show boys with hard cocks I liked the attitude that was practiced at BBB Pattaya some years ago,the boys used to come down to the customers and only the ones that wanted to touch them gave them tip ,the boys were extremely freindly and not pushy at all. I find the behaviour of the boys at Hotmale very rude.

[jason1975]

I think I was more disturbed by the possibility of doing something disrespectful by giving the older mamasan the same amount as the much younger waiter. Rank and seniority are important in Thailand society. I didn’t want to be disrespectful to their culture. Perhaps I should have given the waiter 10 baht and 20 baht to the older mamasan!

[Jasper]

16 minutes ago, jason1975 said:

I think I was more disturbed by the possibility of doing something disrespectful by giving the older mamasan the same amount as the much younger waiter. Rank and seniority are important in Thailand society. I didn’t want to be disrespectful to their culture. Perhaps I should have given the waiter 10 baht and 20 baht to the older mamasan!

I have a feeling that Bangkok gogo bar mamasans think anything below 100 baht tip is beneath them, whether it is justifiable or not.

I would have left 10 baht coin in the bill wallet as I don’t think even a young waiter appreciates coins, give two x 20 baht notes to the waiter, ignore the older mamasan as I don’t think he deserves any tip, take 200 baht notes to myself and give 100 baht note to the younger mamasan at the door in case he gets bullied by the older mamasan if I give 100 tip in front of the older one.

 

[anddy]

5 hours ago, jason1975 said:

No need to buy boy drink as I was with the very helpful younger mamasan! Lol!

...who is very cute, both by looks and by personality!

[anddy]

5 hours ago, abidismaili said:

I left Hotmale bar last night because of the extreme demand for tipping. They more or less force you to tip every boy in the show and every mamasan. The show boys go into the public with their hard cock and want you to touch it and then expect a 100 baht tip. If you say "No" they keep asking, also rude: a no answer is not respected really, they keep asking.  All of them that are on stage come to you for a tip. Then the mamasans who ask for tips and drinks. It was becoming so extreme that I left. Very rude behaviour. Never again Hotmale bar for me. Feels horrible. 

when we were there on Monday, @jason1975 and me did not observe such behavior. Of course the fuck show couple came around for tips, but that's customary. That was all unless I overlooked or forgot something. Jason1975 might add a comment....

[vinapu]

While it's important to be respectful to host country culture, it doesn't apply to what is happening in the industry,where rules are simple and universal. Whoever helped you may be tipped  if you so inclined and whoever did not lift a finger, no matter what rank and seniority is should be left with empty hands.

I rarely have problems with mamasans for simple reason, while I treat them politely I liberally use word 'no' when they offer help I don't need or  request tip they don't earned. Complain that tip is too small is met  with  'that' enough' from me.

I believe a lot of our problems with mamasans comes from us trying to be too polite and too respectful , much more than necessary. 

After all we are not buying all that stuff hawkers on Patpong market are trying to push on us.

Uninvited mamas an trying to make small talk will get a lot of polite nonsense from me as response, enough to get a hint I'm not interested in. "What boy   do  you  like ' , "I like girls, 'what country you are from ?' " Tuvalu, Burkina Faso, Suriname'  or some other country far from first pages.

So first advice , while acknowledging them try to mind our own , not their business.

Second is to have enough of change so no need to wait for staff to bring it, BTS change counters are very handy for that.

Third is not to pay any attention to supposed cultural norm that tipping in coins is offensive, if they don't like, and some don't, take coins back and leave them empty handed, been there , done that and it works next time.

As for boys circulating with erect cocks , it's nothing wrong with them expecting tip, we would do the same  in that situation, no ?

Again wave away and polite 'thank you' should work but if one touches that cock , pats boy on the bum or whatever should part with some money. I usually tip only one chosen from the pack, better use of 100 baht  than enlisting  help of mamas to bring boy over as chances are after the show boy will smile our way broadly.

Almost forgotten fourth advice it to place tip discretely  in the palm or pocket of person , preferably when nobody is around

20 baht tip for  bringing a drink is enough  , even if it's senior mamasan, grandson of Field Marshall or whoever.

As for OP question, I'd give 20 baht to waiter and pocket 230 as explained above why, tip another mamasan exactly way you did.

While I don't like extortionate types I strongly believe in monetary rewards to people who helped us and made our experience better 

 By the way I have a habit of settling my bills in bar right away, i.e. When drink is delivered I pay the tab and tip the waiter, this signalizes that I'm ok for a while and it's always read correctly.

 

 

[paborn]

I agree with Vinapu. I'm a tipper but a Mamasan who is intrusive gets nothing. Actually, I have had few problems with them as I have a firm policy of ignoring anyone I don't invite over. 

[jason1975]

2 hours ago, anddy said:

when we were there on Monday, @jason1975 and me did not observe such behavior. Of course the fuck show couple came around for tips, but that's customary. That was all unless I overlooked or forgot something. Jason1975 might add a comment....

I believe the mamasans and big cock boys weren't as aggressive that night because their attention was focused on the Japanese!

[anddy]

2 hours ago, jason1975 said:

I believe the mamasans and big cock boys weren't as aggressive that night because their attention was focused on the Japanese!

that is possible of course!

[Guest]

5 hours ago, paborn said:

I have had few problems with them as I have a firm policy of ignoring anyone I don't invite over. 

Now that is a very good summary of how to operate.  

 

Incidentally, the mamasans claiming a 20 baht tip is not enough do so because experience shows some punters will be dumb enough to give them more.   

Despite having done naff all to deserve it, they are asking you for a tip equivalent to 30% of the Thai minimum daily wage.   

 

 

 

[ggobkk]

It appears that some bad habits have migrated from the antecedents of Lucky Boys...

[Boy69]

IMO 20 baht is very small tip to give at go go bars and it's better not give it at all ,min. 50 -100 is more reasonable amount.

[vinapu]

On 6/22/2019 at 3:45 AM, Boy69 said:

IMO 20 baht is very small tip to give at go go bars and it's better not give it at all ,min. 50 -100 is more reasonable amount.

Guys at Nice Boys Pattaya are happily allowing you short indecent touch for that much.

As for main point , it depends for what, 50-100 just for taking order and  bringing drink sounds too generous to me , for forcing on us uninvited company even more so.

But if boy sits with  us invited for a  drink I  tip at least 100 and if session is longer even more . Definitely more if he initiates discreet personal survey moves ( I always wait for them to make an inviting move ).

Generally speaking I'm off opinion that in bar tips should be in proportion to a skin revealed.

[Boy69]

1 hour ago, vinapu said:

Guys at Nice Boys Pattaya are happily allowing you short indecent touch for that much.

As for main point , it depends for what, 50-100 just for taking order and  bringing drink sounds too generous to me , for forcing on us uninvited company even more so.

But if boy sits with  us invited for a  drink I  tip at least 100 and if session is longer even more . Definitely more if he initiates discreet personal survey moves ( I always wait for them to make an inviting move ).

Generally speaking I'm off opinion that in bar tips should be in proportion to a skin revealed.

I usually don't tip for taking order and  bringing drink but before I leave and paying the check bill I will leave min. 50 baht or more depends what the amount of bill is.I think it's better than to give straight ahead such a small tip of 20 baht  to whom who take the order or bring you the drink .such a small amount can he offensive at many bars and it's better not to give at all in my humble opinion.

I agree with you boy that sits with us 100 baht is really the minimum sometimes when I enjoyed the boy's company for a long time and didn't off him eventually I gave him up to 500 baht as compensation for his time .

[Riz05]

At Lucky boys, for a very cute Katoy having a number 1. I always give him tip 300b or more.  We  just blowing a kiss each other many times.

I enjoy to do this :-) and I think I’m getting what I paid for .  He is sooo cute :-)

[vinapu]

18 minutes ago, Riz05 said:

 

I enjoy to do this :-) and I think I’m getting what I paid for .

and this is all that counts , our money , our pleasure  

[ChristianPFC]

Tipping, the perennial favorite!

I would not have tipped anyone, as I don't need any advice from mamasan;

and from waiter I only want him to bring my drink, which he is paid for by his employer.

Either a reputation as cheapskate precedes me, or I look like a non-tipper, or I immediately forget such incidents, but I don't remember such problem.

If someone asks for a tip, he will get a "no" and if he asks again, another "no" and the next person from that bar or elsewhere "no".

I'm immune to those requests/demands/expectations, they run off my skin like water on a lotus leaf.

When the big cock or fuck show performers roam the audience, I keep my hands on my lap and just smile and say "thank you" when they come to me.

Being a single child and having lived alone might help for this: I do not do what others expect/demand/request I do, I do what I think feel doing.

[vinapu]

1 hour ago, ChristianPFC said:

 

 I do not do what others expect/demand/request I do, I do what I think feel doing.

social life is lubricated by compromises on those things and often without even realizing it we succumb to those demands, requests and expectancies so it's better no to be too strict.

At times we need to spend holidays with family we don't like, smile at neighbor we hate or have a coffee   with friend even if we hate coffee.

 

 

[reader]

One of the traits I really admire about Thais is their ability to get along with others. I believe it comes about naturally at a very early age because they coexist in close quarters. They find themselves dependent on highly developed social networks of family, friends and neighbors. Children learn to share before they can walk. 

Parents who work in Patpong bring their youngsters along. You can’t help but notice how they acclimate to what might seem to us to be an impossibly hectic environment. Yet somehow they find themselves looked after by the other vendors. The spirit, and the need, to cooperate is imprinted by these experiences.

They’re better socialized beyond anything I’ve seen in the west. 

[reader]

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