Guest wowpow Posted January 8, 2007 Posted January 8, 2007 Gaybutton. I would like to ask you to clarify your stated change to the rules of the board: "Now, before people start to panic about the board being essentially in my hands over the next few months, you do not have to worry (or celebrate) that this board is now under the control of the power hungry "control freak" that I am often reputed to be. I have agreed to moderate this board by the policies and wishes set by GayThailand, keeping in mind that this board belongs to him and not to me. GayThailand and I disagree about certain types of posts and specific posters that appear on this board. Quite frankly, if this board belonged to me there would be a few people who regularly post here who would have been history long before now. However, I fully intend to do things as GayThailand wants them done without regard to my personal opinion. Before anyone starts contacting me, telling me who I should ban from posting, I think I better make it clear that I have agreed not to ban anyone. Despite the fact that GayThailand is off doing whatever it is that he's doing, that doesn't mean we're out of touch. If there is any reason to ban someone, I will contact GayThailand and that decision will still rest solely with him. There will be one change, however, and GayThailand and I agreed to this before he told me about his upcoming hiatus. It has to do with the preponderance of attack posts. What we are going to do is to lock threads that deviate from the intent of the original topic and start to become nothing more than a series of attacks and counter attacks. We will also delete any threads or individual posts that, in our opinion, are an attempt to circumvent threads that have been locked." The proposed measures have ramifications which I think may not have been fully thought through. We have a prime example of what I mean in GayThailand's Sabbatical trail. Does your rule that nobody can re-open a blocked trail means that nobody can now comment further on the board's momentous event of the absence of Gaythailand and possible resignation of Rainwalker and yourself elevated to Administrator? Or does it mean that the attack topic is banned? May I suggest that, posts that contravene the current board policies are deleted totally or in part leaving the original topic free for further discussion. For transparency I would like to see such deletions noted in the message or trail. Hopefully most members who find their posts deleted will learn to take care in future. Quote
Gaybutton Posted January 8, 2007 Posted January 8, 2007 Gaybutton. I would like to ask you to clarify your stated change to the rules of the board: The proposed measures have ramifications which I think may not have been fully thought through. We have a prime example of what I mean in GayThailand's Sabbatical trail. Does your rule that nobody can re-open a blocked trail means that nobody can now comment further on the board's momentous event of the absence of Gaythailand and possible resignation of Rainwalker and yourself elevated to Administrator? Or does it mean that the attack topic is banned? May I suggest that, posts that contravene the current board policies are deleted totally or in part leaving the original topic free for further discussion. For transparency I would like to see such deletions noted in the message or trail. Hopefully most members who find their posts deleted will learn to take care in future. Give me time. I'm going to try several methods to put a stop to this nonsense, and I will also try your suggestion. I'm trying to handle this in a manner that I believe GayThailand would handle it or would want it handled, but it's too soon to engrave anything in stone just yet. I can assure you that one way or another it will be handled. When I find the method that works best and seems to be satisfactory to all concerned, except of course to the offending posters, that's what I'll probably stick with. I'm not going to reopen locked threads, but I have no objection if anyone wants to create a new thread in order to continue the original discussion. However, as soon as I see posts that are inappropriate to the thread and/or degenerate the thread to the attacks and counter attacks, there are three things I can do. One is to lock the thread. One is to delete the offending posts. One is to do both. I will not partially edit posts. People will either post properly or they'll find either the thread locked or their post gone. I'm trying my best, but it isn't always easy trying to deal with people who think they get to ignore the rules or just make up their own rules. Quote
Guest wowpow Posted January 8, 2007 Posted January 8, 2007 Sorry if this is trouble but I feel the need to persist before rules are set in stone. Gaybutton, as I see it you have blocked a serious and important trail by the Owner and the main contributors are Rainwalker and yourself other than the "attackers". I see no logic in this. I say delete the offending messages and re-open the trail or please explain why you do not see this desireable. To me it is akin to letting the terrorists win. I would also suggest that you embrace modern management style and consult the members how they think that moderation to exclude the problem of the, attackers and bickerers, would best take place. Retiring to Mount Olympus to cogitate before announcing your decree is very dates. I though you Americans loved Democracy and go to War to defend such principles? " One is to lock the thread. One is to delete the offending posts. One is to do both. I will not partially edit posts. People will either post properly or they'll find either the thread locked or their post gone". Gaybutton So any hopes of transparency have gone? As you say above, the choices are pretty limited and few people have your years of experience in moderating so a decision is not really that difficult. I feel worried. Quote
Guest buaseng Posted January 8, 2007 Posted January 8, 2007 I would also suggest that you embrace modern management style and consult the members how they think that moderation to exclude the problem of the, attackers and bickerers, would best take place. Gawd Almighty ! GB - do it as you think fit after consulting GT and the other moderator(s). Management by committee is absolutely the last thing that is needed. You would be very unlikely to get a consensus on how a topic should be resolved. In the end you would have to make the decision anyway. If Wowpow or anyone else doesn't like it they will have to live with it or retire to some other forum to bleat and complain. (Now if they were paying to host or to subscribe to the board that would be a different matter). Quote
Gaybutton Posted January 8, 2007 Posted January 8, 2007 Ok, Wowpow. You've convinced me. I've reopened the thread and we'll try it that way. However, I leave open all my options, including the option to lock it again if it becomes necessary. Regarding transparency, there will be none. I am not going to get into arguments or justifications and I do not feel that I owe public explanations as to why things are done the way they're done. Sorry if that bothers you, but that's the way it's going to be. I've met you halfway. For the time being, that will have to do. Quote
Guest Pearl69er Posted January 8, 2007 Posted January 8, 2007 "I'm trying my best, but it isn't always easy trying to deal with people who think they get to ignore the rules or just make up their own rules."-GayButton where are the rules ??? Quote
Guest wowpow Posted January 8, 2007 Posted January 8, 2007 Gay Thailand Message Center Mission and Code of Conduct v1.2 Mission: The Gay Thailand Message Center forums are provided as a venue for the discussion and exchange of information about Thailand and other related issues. It is a place to submit queries and share experiences, information, concerns, news and views, and maybe even a little humor for the benefit of members. Responsible, non-abusive, free and open dialog is fostered between members and between members and Thai guys in support of the Gay Thailand site mission. Abusive posts shall not be tolerated. Message Center Membership: Browse access to the forums is a free benefit of Gay Thailand membership. Post access is a privilege granted to like-minded Gay Thailand members supportive of Thailand and gay experiences in Thailand. Gay Thailand membership is a necessary but not sufficient condition for Message Center post privileges. Post access is contingent upon sharing the Message Center Mission and observing the Covenant and the Code of Conduct. Publicly demonstrated member conduct, prior to joining Gay Thailand that establishes a history of egregious conduct or chronically problematic behavior may be considered in the determination of granting Message Center post access. Failure to observe the Covenant or the Code of Conduct shall constitute cause for termination of Message Center post privileges. Egregious member conduct in external forums may give cause for Gay Thailand Message Center post-access privileges to be reviewed and revoked at Gay Thailand Management discretion. Forum shopping to violate Gay Thailand member privacy will not be tolerated. Termination of post privileges shall in no way affect the status of Gay Thailand Site Membership which shall remain in good standing with all other benefits intact. The determination of violations is the sole purview of the Gay Thailand Management. Message Center post privileges may be terminated without prior notice at the discretion of the Management. Covenant: The Gay Thailand Management takes very seriously the privacy of its members and recognizes the desire and in many cases the need for discretion. Personal information that can be used to identify a member, a user, or a go go boy or bar boy, whether or not a Gay Thailand member, shall not be permitted. No member shall publish or cause to be published such personal information. A violation of the Covenant shall be cause for immediate termination of Forum privileges. Posting to the appropriate forum is essential to a well run board. If you post to a board that is not on topic, the moderators will move this topic to the correct board. The decision to move topics is the sole discretion of the moderators and Gay Thailand management. This website is geared toward an adult audience. However, we are not an adult pornographic website. NO posting of nudity in any form is allowed. Any such posts will be immediately deleted. There is also no discussion of underage sex. In Thailand and in most places in the world, sex with minors is illegal. Anyone that promotes sex with someone under the legal age of consent will be reported to the authorities. Thailand is a Kingdom in which respect for the Royal Family is expected. There will be no posts allowed that disparage or insult the royals. No links to pornographic websites are allowed. Posting these links will result in immediate removal of the post and disillusion of the membership of the poster. Personal information is any information that identifies a person or his residence or place of employment and includes but is not necessarily limited to: - first and last name - residential or business address - phone number - Social Security number - credit card number - e-mail address - Photos of subject or subject's family/friends/pets/place of residence or employment/study, automobile*, or auto license plate. - IP address All GoGo and Host work-related information is exempt provided the guy, with intent, has made that information publicly available or has given tacit approval for such information to be made available. Exception: A member may choose to disclose his first name in 'signing' his posts. Under that circumstance, usage of a first name to address or refer to that member shall not be deemed a violation of the Covenant. Without public announcement by the individual, such first name usage shall be considered a violation of the Covenant and Code of Conduct. * Under circumstances where some unusual aspect of the automobile would make it readily identifiable. In all instances, Gay Thailand management shall be the final arbiter of what constitutes personal information. Code of Conduct: Gay Thailand membership is restricted to Adults Only. That Message Center members shall be expected to behave as adults is not an undue burden. The expected conduct standard for the Gay Thailand forums is the same as that observed everyday in society by adults in our neighborhoods, towns, and cities. It is based on straightforward mature behavior, civility and courtesy that you find in a neighborhood Pub or Tavern where neighbors and acquaintances joined by occasional strangers come together to socialize in good temper, to share conversation, and to hoist, in moderation, a glass of favorite beer or wine or a cup of coffee or tea. These forums are NOT presented for abusive arguing and name calling, score settling, thread stalking, or general cyberspace blood sport for the chronically bored. As in any Pub or Tavern, an egregiously abusive or chronically problematic customer (member) shall be banned from further post participation. In all instances, Gay Thailand management shall be the final arbiter of what constitutes egregiously abusive conduct or when a member has crossed the line of 'chronically problematic'. In general, terminated memberships shall not be eligible for reinstatement. Welcome Welcome to the Gay Thailand Message Center. We hope that you will find your time in attendance pleasant, informative, and from time to time maybe even a little fun. Share your experiences, comments, and questions with members of like-minded interests or with some hot hunky escorts. The Message Center is what you make of it. We hope it is put too good and effective use. Thanks for coming in. The floor is yours. The Gay Thailand Management ========================== It all seems very sensible and well thought out and put to me. Quote
bkkguy Posted January 8, 2007 Posted January 8, 2007 thanks for posting the full text wowpow - but surely a link would have been sufficient but having read the text you posted you must be aware that both this thread and your other thread with the plea for commonsense and politeness are off-topic for this forum and should be in the "Comments and Suggestions" forum - I hope the moderator will be deleting or moving them! I for one happily support the moderators deleting off-topic or unacceptable posts. earwig has claimed here and elsewhere that he posts illiterate messages deliberately just to annoy people - an attitude surely against common politeness and against the code of conduct here, so delete his messages he calls people stupid and negative when they cannot understand his posts, again definitely deserving of a delete he starts a thread with a subject of Babylon but his opening post has nothing to do with Babylon so is off-topic so delete it he starts a thread about Hot News but his opening post has no news so is off-topic so delete it he starts a thread about new 5 star gay hotels but his opening post has nothing to do with this so is off-topic so delete it etc, etc, etc so yes I support the call for more moderation here - it would save me making half my posts! bkkguy Quote
Guest stef Posted January 8, 2007 Posted January 8, 2007 There aren't much that will change, except the fact that GayThailand will be absent for a while and that Gaybutton will have more choices to make and I will be there as well to make sure that things doesn't get out of hand. I have been patient since this board has started and one great thing is that Gaybutton belongs to the team, which allowed me to be on the background and did not have to do much. The other moderators are more diplomatic than I am so I prefer to just be on the side and keep my mouth shut for stupidity, which I can't stand. And there are still things I will not agree with and that I will be glad to step up for. I just don't understand why people can't keep things simple in life. There are always some people who likes to make things complicated. What I don't like at all, is receiving messages , privates message from members telling us how to run a board. This is not the way it works. We can listen to all of them, but please do not tell us what to do. Especially if it does concern an other members that you don't agree with. No Phone numbers or contact information, unless it does concern a business in Thailand that wants to promote themselves, NO email address to be contacted in any ways ( Private message is there to help that process ) and few more in the guidelines.. Let's share good info guys.. Nothing hard with this. Quote
Guest Pearl69er Posted January 8, 2007 Posted January 8, 2007 A Code of Conduct indeed but has it been followed ? Have the moderators followed it religiously ? The stuff about meeting in corner taverns and such is all very nice ( I never go to pubs) but sound a bit strange considering the clubs we all go to in Pattaya etc. It also says quote :"There is also no discussion of underage sex."..sensibly along with the fact that this board will not tolerate promotion of such..but there is discussion on underage sex. There are threads about farangs being busted for underage sex-followed by discussions. These are rules that are open to interpretation yes--I know Gaybutton the "control freak-(not my words)-has the final say but surely more direct rules about posting would be more productive. They are fine sentiments in the Code of Conduct but a bit wishy washy at the same time *************************** bkkguy: As I know Earwig personally I get his mad sense of humour and you obviously don't which is understandable but he isn't a person who sets out to attack people. I'm sure if you checked you will see he responds to others who attack him over and over again and that is a pretty human thing to do. I'm afraid you also have to get used to his use of the English language-that's how he writes-always has and won't change. It isn't deliberate it's just a fact. My personal view is that it is unbelievably rude and pointless to criticise other's writing styles . Quote
Gaybutton Posted January 8, 2007 Posted January 8, 2007 A Code of Conduct indeed but has it been followed ? Have the moderators followed it religiously ? No, we haven't and we don't intend to. We're going to do what we think is best at our own discretion and we're not going to concern ourselves with whether what we do follows the precise letter of the code or not. We are not going to sit down and write a set of precise, specific rules as if we are trying to write law. I'll repeat what I stated in a post above: I'm sorry if that bothers you, but that's the way it's going to be. Also, this forum is not all about Ear Wig and his posts. I intend to treat Ear Wig, you, and everyone else in precisely the same manner. So far, the only posts we have eliminated are posts that attack others or go so far off on a tangent that they are not even remotely connected with the original topic. If it helps to figure out how we're going to do things here, I'm much closer to full agreement with Stef, buaseng and bkkguy than anyone else who has so far posted on this thread. Quote
Guest Pearl69er Posted January 8, 2007 Posted January 8, 2007 "A Code of Conduct indeed but has it been followed ?" "Have the moderators followed it religiously ?" "No, we haven't and we don't intend to." OK..sorry for even asking. "Also, this forum is not all about Ear Wig and his posts" Well thank God for that..wasn't me who brought up the subject. ##Actually I must congratulate you on such instant action on a thread that appeared about someone being robbed..very worrying..I can see you mean business !! Quote
Gaybutton Posted January 8, 2007 Posted January 8, 2007 ##Actually I must congratulate you on such instant action on a thread that appeared about someone being robbed..very worrying..I can see you mean business !! I do mean business, but I'm afraid you jumped to the conclusion that I am the one who took action on that post. It was not me. I'm not the only moderator here and it was another moderator who spotted the post and took quick action. He did so, rightly, because the post included the name and photos of the person being accused. We can't allow that. However, I reposted the original post with those items eliminated. Quote
Smiles Posted January 8, 2007 Posted January 8, 2007 Frankly, I'd just like to participate on a message board where there is Less-of-GayButton and More-of-Everyone-Else. I don't think GayButton is any better or any worse than any other (human) Moderator on any other Board. Just far too much of him, is all. (Do I think that's going to change? No ) Cheers ... Quote
Gaybutton Posted January 8, 2007 Posted January 8, 2007 Frankly, I'd just like to participate on a message board where there is Less-of-GayButton and More-of-Everyone-Else. Well, that just brings tears to my eyes. Considering that it's rare for you to post anything without including a completely unprovoked dig at me, three guesses about how much I give a damn about anything you have to say at all. What's the matter? Still angry because I refused to provide a link to that board of yours? Quote
Guest ear wig Posted January 8, 2007 Posted January 8, 2007 My problem is I have a few friends who write on here some you know some you dont, I sometimes speak with a sense of humor then some people turn what was a fun quip into nastiness because this is how some people live, with a permanent Black cloud over there head and seem to take my innocent fun remarks and turn them into a deep nasty rebuttal. The other problem is as with the Hedda saga, Its ok to hit me with all they can throw at me, but when I fight back they dont want to hear the answer, because they want it to go away when they have been caught out, if I find what I feel is someone who is wrong and want to what I call debate it, I just dont know what the fine line from debate, then have the on serge of nastiness turning my debate in to attack. What I cant understand is, if you feel I have crossed the line, why dont you to ether write to me ask me to change my words or delete them, or you can change or cut the offending words or even delete the post, why is it the first thing that is mentioned to suspend someone, because what he thought was a conversation has been turned into an attack as I said. The difference is I like everyone who writes on here, even if they do have a go at me at least it stops the bordom for many people, as we sey who is bothered how many hits any one gets, its like finding a new boy, some one does it every week, then some dont find any for months, whos interested, Im sure we all have our Interestiing days at some time or other.You really do need your head seeing to, if you want to sit there clicking away, I may be a joke here, but Im not nuts yet any way So write to me at first instance or edit, then may be delete, obviously my sence of humor is not that same as yours thats all. I ask in future And if you look now, I hear fart-stop are still talking about "ear wig" at the top of the charts, and I left a nearly week ago.so they must be bored. why they dont go back to reading newspaper clippings as it was when I joined I dont know. Its amazing you only get the odd flamer here now, why so many changes after all Gaythailand is only going away for a few weeks till March April is my understanding, what possibley could happen in that short time, GB ,YOU HAVE ONLY TAKEN OVER YESTERDAY SO WHY ALL THIS TALK OF CHANAGES, WHATS TO DIFFERENCE WITH GAYTHAILAND METHOD !!! Quote
Smiles Posted January 8, 2007 Posted January 8, 2007 " ... Well, that just brings tears to my eyes. Considering that it's rare for you to post anything without including a completely unprovoked dig at me, three guesses about how much I give a damn about anything you have to say at all. What's the matter? Still angry because I refused to provide a link to that board of yours?... " Oh dear Pretty predicatable answer, as usual. First of all, I'm not angry about anything. Not sure where you are able to extrapolate that from, besides your own fantasies. Simply noting your participation on this Board as it's leading poster as well as it's Moderator is just that ... an observation and nothing more. Some folks like that, many don't particularly, but it is hardly an anger thing ... neither on their parts, or mine. Secondly, there is a link to Sawatdee on this website, so could I be upset over that. To be honest, I can't recall a thread where such a problem has ever raised it's head. Can you? And thirdly, Sawatdee is not 'my' Board. I haven't had anything to do with Sawatdee administration or moderation for nearly 2 years now. Chill out GB ... you've got lots of posting opportunities to be 'wrong' regarding other issues (and you will bite at every one, I'm sure). Don't let little ol' me get in the way ... Cheers ... Quote
Guest damien500 Posted January 8, 2007 Posted January 8, 2007 My problem is I have a few friends who write on here some you know some you dont, I sometimes speak with a sense of humor then some people turn what was a fun quip into nastiness because this is how some people live, with a permanent Black cloud over there head and seem to take my innocent fun remarks and turn them into a deep nasty rebuttal. The other problem is as with the Hedda saga, Its ok to hit me with all they can throw at me, but when I fight back they dont want to hear the answer, because they want it to go away when they have been caught out, if I find what I feel is someone who is wrong and want to what I call debate it, I just dont know what the fine line from debate, then have the on serge of nastiness turning my debate in to attack. What I cant understand is, if you feel I have crossed the line, why dont you to ether write to me ask me to change my words or delete them, or you can change or cut the offending words or even delete the post, why is it the first thing that is mentioned to suspend someone, because what he thought was a conversation has been turned into an attack as I said. The difference is I like everyone who writes on here, even if they do have a go at me at least it stops the bordom for many people, as we sey who is bothered how many hits any one gets, its like finding a new boy, some one does it every week, then some dont find any for months, whos interested, Im sure we all have our Interestiing days at some time or other.You really do need your head seeing to, if you want to sit there clicking away, I may be a joke here, but Im not nuts yet any way So write to me at first instance or edit, then may be delete, obviously my sence of humor is not that same as yours thats all. I ask in future And if you look now, I hear fart-stop are still talking about "ear wig" at the top of the charts, and I left a nearly week ago.so they must be bored. why they dont go back to reading newspaper clippings as it was when I joined I dont know. christ get a life Quote
Guest ear wig Posted January 8, 2007 Posted January 8, 2007 Oh I thought your name was damien500, now your telling me your GOD. I hope thats not an Insult? Is there a book of words we cant use. Quote
Guest GaySacGuy Posted January 8, 2007 Posted January 8, 2007 How can there be equitable moderation when there are so many "members" that can't seem to stay on topic! Why don't you set up an area called...best I guess is bickering...and let the children play their little word games. Some of us would like to get useful information ON TOPIC! Quote
Guest ear wig Posted January 8, 2007 Posted January 8, 2007 GaySacGuy, Have you heard of free speach, or conversation, I have not seen a Gay Forum that does, unless your only talking about sex all the time, then they seemed to be gripped for some reason. Quote
Gaybutton Posted January 8, 2007 Posted January 8, 2007 And thirdly, Sawatdee is not 'my' Board. I haven't had anything to do with Sawatdee administration or moderation for nearly 2 years now. Exactly. And that's just what I'm talking about because that's when it started. You had that board and I had mine. That's when you asked me for a link and that's when I refused it. I've been under attack by you ever since. I almost never say anything about it and I rarely "have a go" at you, but I'll bet anyone who has another look at most of your posts on this board will agree with what I said; that it's rare to see a post from you that doesn't include an unprovoked dig at terrible old Gaybutton. Quote
Guest ear wig Posted January 8, 2007 Posted January 8, 2007 Now come on you two, If you don't stop fighting I'm going to have to introduce you to the Rule Book here or the rottweiler will attack you as your leaving. Oh it is you Gaybutton I could not see you with all the Hot Air , cant believe your bickering with the customers never a good idea. Quote
Smiles Posted January 9, 2007 Posted January 9, 2007 " ... You had that board and I had mine. That's when you asked me for a link and that's when I refused it ... " .... had no idea you were talking about an event (which will decidely NOT go down in history) which happened 150 years ago. Perhaps you could combine your ...Button handle with that of ElephantSpike. He remembers little, yet gets along. You forget nothing, yet can't get along (if you were paid!). I suggest a mutual transplant. OK ... so-called "attacks" are heretofore suspended indefinitely. Cheers ... Quote
PattayaMale Posted January 9, 2007 Posted January 9, 2007 I think it was a good decision to reopen the thread and am glad to learn that with GT taking a sabbatical there will be no major changes to the board as GB has promised. I do however think the tone of "If you like the way I do it, great. If you don't, tough luck.", sends a negative message. I TOTALLY agree that spiteful attacks have no place here and I truly dislike them. But I hope we do not confuse a well thought out disagreement with an attack. Opinions differ. GB has mentioned that he had disagreements with GT on how to treat posts. Which shows the point I was making. Without seeing how GB will handle things on his own, and only relying on history and what GB has posted above, I have reservations about the future. I also get great information from GB. (NOTE to GB. Please notice the sincere praise). I realize that moderation is difficult. I wish people would not attack others and could disagree courteously as has been suggested many times by GB and others. GB goes out of his way to answer questions about Thailand. I do not mean to show any disrespect to him or the other posters. I just enjoy this site so much I would hate to see it become as GB's last site became...basically one poster. In my opinion, GT had a way of injecting good control with out harsh words. Quote
