Sansuk Sauna - GB's Visit and Observations

[Guest Kregger]

Aw c'mon guys. Is this really an issue in the case of a sauna? Would you prefer the price to be set on that basis of looks? I remember a bathhouse in the US where the doorman required you to lift your shirt before entering and if you sported a six pack, your entry fee was reduced, if your stomach was flat you paid the regular fee, and if your stomoach protruded too much you were denied entry. Face it, the business of a place like Sanuk Sauna is the sexual appeal of the customers. As most farang and older Thais come here for the delights provided by young Thais, it makes sence to give them (the youngsters) an incentive to enter. I would, if I was the owner.

Rich, if you had bothered to read this thread, it says clearly that the current information is that there is a second price for ALL Thais, of ALL ages.

 

Regarding the Chiang Mai sauna racist pricing policies (cheaper for ALL Thais), again, if you read the thread, I already mentioned this is done at other saunas in Thailand.

 

That doesn't make it right.

There used to be white and coloured water fountains all over the South of the US. I guess the defenders of this just said, well, everyone does it.

 

As far as the whoring in the sauna goes, it is clear the Pattaya sauna, being in Pattaya, is going to have more issues with prostitution on premises than saunas elsewhere in Thailand. Goes with the territory.

 

I hope that doesn't happen. I wouldn't be able to afford the 75,000 baht entry fee I'd have to pay.

No, I think they mean LESS money for fatties. They are always saying SEXY MAN to the big guys, so this is valued in Thai culture, isn't it?

 

[Gaybutton]

No, I think they mean LESS money for fatties. They are always saying SEXY MAN to the big guys, so this is valued in Thai culture, isn't it?

 

I hope so . . .

[Guest RichLB]

Kreger, admittedly I skimmed most of the posts since the issue of double pricing is an old one. In general, I was initially put off by it. But, as has been explained, Thais pay taxes in support of many of the venue we farang visit, they are for many of us the main tourist attraction in Thailand, and we simply have far more money than they do. I'm as cheap as the next guy, but I can make myself accept the justification. Especially since the practice takes place regularly in the USA. Students get discounts not available to everyone, senior citizens pay less for the same meals in restaurants, women are charged a lower price (and sometimes higher price) in some places, and the list goes on. These practices are not based on prejudice, but on sound business practices.

 

I would argue that the pricing struction of Sanuk Sauna is not a racially biases one as your comparison to the bigotry in the USA suggests. It seems a device to attract a clientele that will become a lure for the more well heeled customers. Makes sence to me.

[Guest Kregger]

Kreger, admittedly I skimmed most of the posts since the issue of double pricing is an old one. In general, I was initially put off by it. But, as has been explained, Thais pay taxes in support of many of the venue we farang visit, they are for many of us the main tourist attraction in Thailand, and we simply have far more money than they do. I'm as cheap as the next guy, but I can make myself accept the justification. Especially since the practice takes place regularly in the USA. Students get discounts not available to everyone, senior citizens pay less for the same meals in restaurants, women are charged a lower price (and sometimes higher price) in some places, and the list goes on. These practices are not based on prejudice, but on sound business practices.

 

I would argue that the pricing struction of Sanuk Sauna is not a racially biases one as your comparison to the bigotry in the USA suggests. It seems a device to attract a clientele that will become a lure for the more well heeled customers. Makes sence to me.

Sorry, but that is BS.

We agree about Thai national parks. There is a justification.

We are talking about a for profit entertainment venue, a gay baths.

In the US, you will never see a sign that says:

 

Mexicans Free

or

Mexicans Double Price

 

Well, Mexicans free might be good because alot of those illegal Mexicans are young.

But it is not NECESSARY to mention Mexicans, now is it?

Just give a discount for YOUNG MEN, period, ANY RACE, and you will get your young Mexicans.

Even better, have some Latin music nights! Get it. Positive promotions. Not based on RACE.

 

You are indeed making excuses for racism. Just because it is coming from Thais and not white rednecks, does NOT make it right.

[Guest RichLB]

Kregger, we will just have to disagree. I don't see it as racial (since when are Thais a race?). While it is discriminatory, it seems to me to be a practice which will encourage customers. I am not offended by it at all.

[Guest kenrfc]

That doesn't make it right.

There used to be white and coloured water fountains all over the South of the US. I guess the defenders of this just said, well, everyone does it.

 

 

Stop trying to play the Race Card. Comparing dual pricing in a gay sauna to Jim Crow is an insulting reducito ad absurdem.

I guess everone wants to be a "victim" nowadays.

[Gaybutton]

It seems to me that a mountain is being made out of a molehill that may, in part, not even exist. I'm sorry I ever wrote that Thais under 25 get in free. I didn't realize that I was starting the latest brouhaha. For all we know, anybody under age 25 might get in free. What we do know is Thais over age 25 get in for 90 baht.

 

Double standard pricing has been a fixture in Thailand for as long as any of us can remember. Good or bad, that's the way it is in Thailand, and I don't remember any Thai officials asking whether "farang" like it or not. Just like the imposed Christmas and New Year's Eve buffets at many hotels, if you object to it you don't have to stay there. The price difference amounts to a whopping US $2.50. Unless you're planning to go quite often, I fail to see the big deal, but if you object to it, you don't have to go. Personally, I think it's a good idea and I'm in favor of it, racist or not.

 

I doubt that it has anything to do with race. It might end up that way to some degree, but I don't think that is the intent. I think the intent is to attract boys who otherwise can't afford to go and, in turn, attracting "farang" customers. If he lets everyone in free, there goes the business. If he doesn't, then there won't be many boys there. If that's racism, then I'll take some racism as a much lesser evil than going to a gay sauna patronized solely by gay "farang," most of whom are in their fifties or older.

 

If paying more than Thais are paying is something that truly upsets you, then complaining about it here isn't going to do you much good. The Sansuk sauna web site ( http://www.sansuksauna.com ) has a "Contact Us" area on which Punya asks people for their comments and suggestions. It seems to me that's the place to make your case, where you can be certain Punya will read your comments.

[Guest mauRICE]

I find all this talk about money distasteful; we wouldn't want to give the impression that this is going to be the first sauna in the world where patrons will need to have their wallets on them to cruise the premises, would we?

 

Call me a silly romantic but I thought all one needed in Thailand was a good heart.

[Guest mauRICE]

Aw c'mon guys. Is this really an issue in the case of a sauna? Would you prefer the price to be set on that basis of looks? I remember a bathhouse in the US where the doorman required you to lift your shirt before entering and if you sported a six pack, your entry fee was reduced, if your stomach was flat you paid the regular fee, and if your stomoach protruded too much you were denied entry. Face it, the business of a place like Sanuk Sauna is the sexual appeal of the customers. As most farang and older Thais come here for the delights provided by young Thais, it makes sence to give them (the youngsters) an incentive to enter. I would, if I was the owner...

 

I would argue that the pricing struction of Sanuk Sauna is not a racially biases one as your comparison to the bigotry in the USA suggests. It seems a device to attract a clientele that will become a lure for the more well heeled customers. Makes sence to me.

 

Gee, I'd be terrified if they were to impose a spelling/grammar test as a basis for admission. The six-pack test I can bear with.

[Guest Kregger]

Kregger, we will just have to disagree. I don't see it as racial (since when are Thais a race?). While it is discriminatory, it seems to me to be a practice which will encourage customers. I am not offended by it at all.

I think Thais think they are a race, a subset of Asians. Ask one. Of course Chinese Thais are also Thai. Ever noticed why the Thai hill tribe people get treated so badly by the Thais? Wonder why that is? Thais don't see them as real Thais.

 

Don't pretent that race is not an issue in Thailand, as it is in every country I have ever been to.

 

Stop trying to play the Race Card. Comparing dual pricing in a gay sauna to Jim Crow is an insulting reducito ad absurdem.

I guess everone wants to be a "victim" nowadays.

All Thais of ALL ages, get special treatment, OK? So it is about way more than attracting younger customers. I am not the first person to describe Thai double pricing as blatant racism and I won't be the last. If you don't see it, you haven't experienced a drug addict baht bus driver swinging a baseball bat at you demanding 100 baht for a 10 baht ride just because you have white skin!

 

To end on a positive note, what this sauna should do is offer:

 

discounts or free (up to them) for the YOUNGER customers, with age cutoffs at any age they decide best, but to ALL younger customers of ALL races

 

Older guys, same price, yes even Thais

 

Now, that would be fair, good for business, and not racist. But they chose to go with the Pattaya racist flow instead.

 

I believe some things are objectively wrong, in any culture. Some examples of these things include murder, corruption, child abuse, and racism.

 

So, as I predicted, people don't agree with me. Let me ask you this. How far does your support of racism go?

 

For example,

if the sauna owner decided that people didn't want to see Indians or Africans, so he solved it with price, as follows:

 

Young Thais, free or discount

Young any other race but Thai, full price

Older Thais, the Thai race discount

Farangs, full price

Indians, double price farangs

Africans, tripe price farangs

Arabs, four times price farangs

 

OK with you? If not, what is the difference from what you are supporting? Its just racism used to control the population of the sauna. Its good, yes?

[Guest Kregger]

The Thais ARE a race according to this. Apparantly, one of their racial traits is an affinity to double pricing (sorry, that was racist, see what I mean, WRONG!)

 

http://www.thailand-guide.org/arts/index.htm

 

Towards the end of the 13th century, Khmer power in this area waned and new kingdoms dominated by the Thai RACE developed, including the northern Lanna kingdom. Beginning by nibbling away at the perimeter of the Khmer empire at Sukhothai and in Lanna some 700 years ago, the Thai RACE later established the glorious court at Ayutthaya, and eventually Bangkok. Over the past centuries, many peoples, among them the Chinese, Arabs, Malays and Westerners, have contributed to Thailand's cultural heritage. The Thai race show their appreciation for these contributions with the practise of double pricing. : last part a joke!

[Guest mauRICE]

This is not a big issue from my perspective as very few younger, fit, gay men venture into Pattaya anyway. The ones who do, mostly weekenders from Bangkok, spend the day at the beaches and hit the discos at night where they usually hook up. There are plenty of beautiful saunas in Bangkok where Thais and non-Thais can go to so a sauna off the beaten path in Pattaya will not necessarily be a draw to them when visiting for a few days.

 

This new sauna may be an attraction to the Thais who live and work in Pattaya. I think lower pricing for younger customers is typical of many saunas around the world. Either that or they have special theme nights where customers who satisfy a particular theme/requirement get in at a discount or even for free (eg students, hunks, bodybuilders, chubs, silverdaddies, etc). As suggested, the lower pricing is based on the assumption that younger people have less disposable income and their presence is much needed in creating that atmosphere of youth and virility that is the primary appeal of any sauna and certainly in age-conscious Thailand. Nobody, except for the very jai dii among us, wants to patronise a venue that resembles a Night at the Museum with towel-wrapped mummies sipping formaldehyde cocktails by the pool.

 

I've never come across a sauna that positively or negatively discriminates on the basis of ethnicity except for some in Japan and Korea where non-Japanese or non-Koreans are refused admission outright. But, since price discrimination on the basis of nationality is an institutionalised Thai practice, there's nothing much you can do about it if the owners decide to discriminate on the basis of age and/or nationality. I wouldn't worry about rich Thais taking advantage of the system - they already do in any case - as many of the patrons will most likely be twenty to forty-year old lower and middle income Thais working in Pattaya's services industry. Bpaa Rich therefore has a point in that it seems to make more sence (sic) to charge Thais a lower admission price.

 

The only rich Thais I foresee going will be the ones attached to farang, looking for off-duty action - gee, I wonder what their policy on that will be?

[Guest Kregger]

Oh Jesus, you guys are pathetic!

The issue is not the AGE discounts. I totally support them. I think almost everyone would.

 

The issue is the RACE discount for ALL Thais of any age.

 

And also that younger NON-THAIS, are also not allowed the age perk simply because they are not of the Thai race.

 

And I disagree. Pattaya is getting to be a bigger city with many different ethnicities. It is not just farangs and Thais anymore, not by a long shot. This will become much more so, over time.

 

Also, correct me if I am wrong, but the BABYLON does not have double racist pricing, now does it? The Babylon is the model of this new sauna, not some small Thai sauna in Saphan Kwai.

 

 

[Guest mauRICE]

The issue is not the AGE discounts. I totally support them. I think almost everyone would.

 

The issue is the RACE discount for ALL Thais of any age.

 

And also that younger NON-THAIS, are also not allowed the age perk simply because they are not of the Thai race.

 

And I disagree. Pattaya is getting to be a bigger city with many different ethnicities. It is not just farangs and Thais anymore, not by a long shot. This will become much more so, over time.

 

How many well-off Thais are going to visit this venue, regardless of age? I know my lily white Thai friends who go to Chakran wouldn't consider a sauna in Pattaya that's going to be the focus of farang ATMs and their 'boy specials' an attraction.

 

How many younger, gay Thais and non-Thais go to Pattaya? If they do, for how long? Are they more likely going to spend their short holiday at the beach and enjoying the nightlife or going to a sauna when there are so many cheap alternatives in Bangkok and all the major cities sans Pattaya's reputation?

 

Pattaya is not a university town like Chiang Mai where the local saunas attract huge crowds on special 'students' nights'.

 

Pattaya's getting bigger, true. But who's filling it up? Gays or straights? And the gays, how old are they? There's no 'danger' of Pattaya becoming a Fort Lauderdale or South Beach at spring break anytime soon.

 

So who's left?

[Guest Kregger]

You still totally miss my point.

The policy didn't have to be racist.

The same Thai boys would come if their break was based on AGE, not RACE.

 

Only God knows how many of this or that will come. I think the biggest potential is Russians. Young Russians love Pattaya and some of them are gay and the Russians are already here in big numbers.

 

Who's left? Malaysians, Singaporeans, Japanese, Chinese, Burmese, Lao, you name it. Pattaya is a hugely popular beach resort.

 

 

I do think many Bangkok Thai gays do indeed come to Pattaya for short trips, and there is no reason why some of them won't want to check out the so called Babylon of Pattaya, but with racist pricing policies.

 

Yes, farang expats are a big target market for the sauna. You don't think they want to also see some variety in who is at the sauna? Especially for expats, you don't want to eat Thai food EVERY day!

 

BTW, the owner now knows about this thread.

 

We are waiting for a defense of the racist pricing policy and to explain why the discounts couldn't have been based on AGE only rather than being based solely on the Thai race.

[Guest mauRICE]

You still totally miss my point.

The policy didn't have to be racist.

The same Thai boys would come if their break was based on AGE, not RACE.

 

Only God knows how many of this or that will come. I think the biggest potential is Russians. Young Russians love Pattaya and some of them are gay and the Russians are already here in big numbers.

 

Who's left? Malaysians, Singaporeans, Japanese, Chinese, Burmese, Lao, you name it. Pattaya is a hugely popular beach resort.

I do think many Bangkok Thai gays do indeed come to Pattaya for short trips, and there is no reason why some of them won't want to check out the so called Babylon of Pattaya, but with racist pricing policies.

 

Yes, farang expats are a big target market for the sauna. You don't think they want to also see some variety in who is at the sauna? Especially for expats, you don't want to eat Thai food EVERY day!

 

BTW, the owner now knows about this thread.

 

We are waiting for a defense of the racist pricing policy and to explain why the discounts couldn't have been based on AGE only rather than being based solely on the Thai race.

 

"Malaysians, Singaporeans, Japanese, Chinese, et al." I covered them in:

 

How many younger, gay Thais and non-Thais go to Pattaya? If they do, for how long? Are they more likely going to spend their short holiday at the beach and enjoying the nightlife or going to a sauna when there are so many cheap alternatives in Bangkok and all the major cities sans Pattaya's reputation?

 

I'm Malaysian, in my early thirties, and have many, many gay friends from SE Asia, Japan and Hong Kong in the same demographic, and I can tell you Pattaya is at the bottom of their list of travel destinations in Thailand. Bangkok, Phuket and Chiang Mai, in that order, reign. Those in their twenties, like farang backpackers in the same age group, won't even bother to mark Pattaya on their maps.

 

Why can't these hot, young Russians pay a higher price since they can afford to visit Pattaya and, rightly or wrongly, pay more at other types of venue that practise two-tier pricing? Would a price reduction be a strong incentive for them to visit the local gay sauna? If yes, would they be inclined to hook up with the farang residents who will presumably comprise the bulk (pardon the pun) of the clientele?

 

Your devotion to fighting prejudice is commendable, dear, but I'm talking practicalities here, not principles. I've never found the 'what is right versus what is wrong approach' instructive in analysing Thai behaviour. Examine the motives, the costs, who's got the most to gain, who's got the most to lose, and the picture will become clear.

[PattayaMale]

There was a recent article in Bangkok Post saying that the government has received many complaints about tourists being charged a much higher fee than Thais at restaurants. I doubt it will change but the "government spokesperson" said it was wrong and would be investigated because it was not good for tourism.

[Gaybutton]

Ok, so the owner now knows about this thread. Good. When he reads it, he'll see the following statement from me, a moderator here:

 

I don't give a damn about what motivates his pricing policy, whether it's racist or anything else. I don't see anything at all about what he's doing as racist and I wouldn't care if it is. The "what ifs" about blacks, Indians, Japanese, etc. are not a factor because there is no admission policy regarding any of that.

 

I've been to Sansuk sauna and I will be there again, probably a great many times. Punya is doing absolutely nothing wrong and if anyone out there thinks he is, then there are five things you can do about it:

 

1. Take it up with Punya personally.

 

2. Continue griping about it and trying to prove your point on this message board.

 

3. State your case on the "Contact Us" section of the Sansuk web site.

 

4. Don't go to the sauna.

 

5. File a complaint with the TAT.

 

If Kregger and others see it as racism, so be it. As far as I can tell, all Punya is trying to do is provide a means for people who otherwise could not afford it to be able to come to the sauna and still be able to regain his investment and make a profit, and racism most likely never entered his mind.

 

I think this whole issue about the pricing policy at Sansuk as racism is just nonsense and is nothing more than a non-issue that few, if there is anyone else besides Kregger, even agrees with or cares about. Somehow I doubt that anyone is going to reconsider patronizing the Sansuk sauna because one person has decided that the admission policy is based on racism.

[Guest Kregger]

No, and why can't you get this:

 

The admission policy is indeed RACIST because it is based on RACE.

It incorrectly assumes that ONLY people of the Thai race need a price break (feeds into the totally wrong racist stereotype that all farangs are rich and all Thais are poor).

 

I do not think for one minute that the owner of the sauna is racist. I think he did this for a great goal, get younger men in the sauna to enjoy, which older men will also enjoy. I agree with that goal 100 percent. In fact, I suggested it before I criticized the racist method of implementation.

 

It is easy to avoid a racist policy. Make the discounts based on AGE only, and leave RACE out of it.

 

So, the policy, yes, RACIST.

The owner, I have no evidence that he himself is racist, but I still think his policy is wrong.

 

Make the discounts based on AGE.

Older Thais do not deserve a price break based solely on their RACE.

Younger non-Thais deserve to be treated exactly the same way as younger Thais.

Also, imagine this. Imagine if the free or discounted rate for young ones of all RACES surprised everyone and drew in many many young Russian studs every night. Now, that would be incredibly good for the sauna's full paying business volume, now wouldn't it? So you can avoid using a totally obnoxious, vile, and racist pricing policy, and potentially also boost your profits. Whats not to like?

 

 

As far as the silly argument that young Russians should not get the same discount as young Thais, then why does the sauna assume that old Thais can't afford the same as old farangs?

 

Assuming this sauna retains it racist pricing policy, at least some people have thought about this issue which you call a non-issue, but we will leave that for individuals to interpret, especially when they see a well heeled older Thai pay a "special price" because the shape of his eyes and other racial characteristics.

 

Like the owner of the sauna if he had to pay to enter his sauna, for example, an obviously quite wealthy older Thai. But he would need a price break because his money not strong like the Euro, yeah, right, for sure!

 

As far as complaining to the Tourism Authority of Thailand, do you really think that would accomplish anything?

[Gaybutton]

The admission policy is indeed RACIST because it is based on RACE.

 

As far as complaining to the Tourism Authority of Thailand, do you really think that would accomplish anything?

 

I don't think the policy is racist at all. It's based on nationality, not race. As far as I know, if someone from any other Asian country goes to the sauna, they'll pay the same admission price as "farang." I see no significant difference between that and something done in Florida: During the summer months, when few people go to Florida for a holiday, Disney World offers excellent discounts for those who hold a Florida driver's license. To my mind, what Sansuk sauna is doing is much closer to that than to a racist policy.

 

You wrote, "Younger non-Thais deserve to be treated exactly the same way as younger Thais." I don't know whether the younger non-Thais get in under the 25-or-under-free admission policy or not. Do you?

 

Will complaining to TAT accomplish anything? I have no idea. I've never tried it.

 

Well, apparently from among the five choices I listed above, you like number 2 the best. I have to admit I think that's a little strange since it has the least chance of accomplishing anything. Personally, I think you're wasting time and energy now. You've already stated your reasons why you think it's a racist policy. I don't see how finding new ways to phrase the same premise is going to enhance your case, but go right ahead and complain to your heart's content if that's what floats your boat.

 

 

[Guest Kregger]

I don't think the policy is racist at all. It's based on nationality, not race. As far as I know, if someone from any other Asian country goes to the sauna, they'll pay the same admission price as "farang."

 

You wrote, "Younger non-Thais deserve to be treated exactly the same way as younger Thais." I don't know if the younger non-Thais get in under the 25-or-under-free admission or not. Do you?

 

Will complaining to TAT accomplish anything? I have no idea. I've never tried it.

Thais are a race of people. Thai people see it that way; if you don't believe me, ask some. True, not all people of Thai nationality are Thai race, just most of them. Some of the ones that aren't, like hill tribe people, have trouble even getting Thai id cards. Don't act like there aren't gross racial injustices in Thai society based on racism.

 

I don't know whether or not other Asians would be able to use the discount. I know in that case of things like baht buses for example, yes, Asians who can pass as Thais by appearance get the Thai price.

 

No, I don't know if a young Russian would also get in free, but I think it is very fair to assume NOT. Because they are not Thai OR Asian, now, are they? They are farang.

[Gaybutton]

No, I don't know if a young Russian would also get in free, but I think it is very fair to assume NOT. Because they are not Thai OR Asian, now, are they? They are farang.

 

I disagree with that statement. I don't think it's fair to assume anything when all you would need to do to find out is call them and ask.

[Guest buckeroo2]

Come on guys - Kregger argues his points very well - allowing only Thais under 25 a discount is racist - no one is arguing that a place full of under 25 Thais is an admireable goal - why not have the policy for all guys under 25 - the upfront cost would be minimal and it could go a long way to providing a vibrant young crowd that will appeal to most older full-paying farangs. I, for one, happen to be attracted to older asians, but a sauna full of young eye candy would be appreciated. But when push comes to shove, I haven't read anything here that negates Kregger's well justified point. We may be making a mountain out of a mole hill, but Kregger certainly has made a vaild point.

 

Thais are a race of people. Thai people see it that way; if you don't believe me, ask some. True, not all people of Thai nationality are Thai race, just most of them. The ones that aren't, like hill tribe people, have trouble even getting Thai id cards. Don't act like there aren't gross racial injustices in Thai society based on racism.

 

I don't know whether or not other Asians would be able to use the discount. I know in that case of things like baht buses for example, yes, Asians who can pass as Thais by appearance get the Thai price.

 

No, I don't know if a young Russian would also get in free, but I think it is very fair to assume NOT. Because they are not Thai, now, are they? They are farang.

 

[Guest Kregger]

If the owner of the sauna wants to clarify his pricing policies, he knows about this thread, and he can clarify the exact policies.

 

In general, such race based pricing policies in Thailand are kept hidden, never publicly posted, and usually not discussed. An exception is the national park policy. Even then, the Thai prices do not use Roman numbers; a tricky attempt to hide the truth from farangs. They are kept hidden because most Thais know they are morally wrong under their Buddhist religion. Sometimes I go to a Thai haircutter and talk to them in Thai. Then I ask them how much at the end, in Thai. They then write down the double price amount on a piece of paper. They won't say it because they are ashamed at doing this in front of their Thai customers because they know it is wrong.

 

So here is the opportunity for some openness from the owner about his racially based pricing policies, for this to be happen ... or not in the case of this sauna.

 

It is also a great opportunity for the owner to spell out in plain English a set of pricing policies that are not at all racist. Right here for us to see.

 

How many believe the owner of this sauna who has started his new business with race based pricing policiies, will actually do that?

 

If he does, much congratulations are in order.

 

So, Mr. Button, I choose none of your options. Hope that doesn't offend you.

[Gaybutton]

We may be making a mountain out of a mole hill, but Kregger certainly has made a vaild point.

 

It's valid if you agree with it. I do not. You wrote, "why not have the policy for all guys under 25 . . ." Once again, my response to that is we do not yet know whether Sansuk has that policy or not. So far, nobody who has actually inquired has responded, so where is this assumption coming from? Wouldn't it make more sense to argue the point once we know the actual policy? You are arguing to put in place a policy that may very well already exist.

 

Incidentally, welcome to the board. I see you have just joined us.