Precautions I take in case I die unexpectedly in Thailand or on my way to it

[abidismaili]

We all have stuff we don't want family to see. For example sex toys. Or sex tourist magazines (like the Men of Thailand magazine) which if they see it will finally make them understand why you go so often to Thailand.

The problem is that if I die in a plane crash on my way to Thailand - or in Thailand itself - my family will of course be informed and in due time visit my apartment and clean it out. They can then see my sex toys and the sex tourism magazines. I rather don't want them to see it, because it feels a bit embarassing. 

What I do is this: all embarassing stuff I put - before I leave for the airport - in a recycle bin at the bottom with above it normal trash. If I die I am pretty sure they will just throw away the bag with thrash in it and don't look inside it. If I return savely (which until now has always happened) I restore my stuff from the bin and put it in its regular place.

Of course this doesn't cover events like getting for example a hearth attack at home or at my job, so there is still some risk if I die unexpectly in my own country. 

I wonder if I am alone in doing stuff like this. Or you really don't care your parents, sisters, borthers see your dildo's and other toys?

[ggobkk]

I take the approach that if something happens to me, it's beyond my control.  If, I die, while on a journey, I doubt I will feel embarrassed about anything.  Family and friends will adjust.

[kokopelli]

Suggest you have a trusted friend, with keys to your home, to get rid of the stuff before the family gets a chance. Furthermore your Will should specify an Executor who will have the power to dispose of your belongings. In two instances I was the Executor and had to dispose of the deceased , gay friends belongings.

In one case it was written/printed material  while in a later case much of it was video cassettes and computer storage.  Even though the family/friends did a cursory check of the computer storage they fortunately missed 99 % of the stored material.

 

[abidismaili]

23 minutes ago, kokopelli said:

Suggest you have a trusted friend, with keys to your home, to get rid of the stuff before the family gets a chance. Furthermore your Will should specify an Executor who will have the power to dispose of your belongings. In two instances I was the Executor and had to dispose of the deceased , gay friends belongings.

In one case it was written/printed material  while in a later case much of it was video cassettes and computer storage.  Even though the family/friends did a cursory check of the computer storage they fortunately missed 99 % of the stored material.

 

But how can you prevent family from entering the apartment before you do as the Executor? Do you legally need approval - even as a family member - from the Executor, before you can enter the apartment? Also the family will know that you died first, before a friend will know about it. It can even take days before the friend will know about it if you die unexpectedly and the friend is totally unknown to the family.

I have wondered for some time how single people - who die unexpectedly - take care  embarassing personal stuff isn't discovered by family. In my country (Netherlands) having a will and Executor is rare. Only the very rich have this I think.

Imagine cleaning the house of your father who died unexpectedly and discovering he had a SM dungeon in his basement with SM toys. Something you totally didn't know he was into. I think your father would find it very embarassing if you discovered that. He kept it a secret all his life. And since he died unexpectedly, he couldnt clean it all out. Now replace 'father' with yourself. You really wouldn't mind family discovered these very personal things? Most would mind. So a Will/Friend is the answer.

(Of course most people die expectedlty (say after a sick bed) and not unexpectedly and have time for disposing the embarassing stuff themselves).

[bobsaigon]

I live in Vietnam and will probably die here.  I've told my Vietnamese partner NOT to notify the US Consulate when I die, otherwise consulate employees will show up at my apartment and want to take possession of all my personal effects and send them to my sisters.  Aside from whatever embarrassment that might generate, I'm sure my sisters would not be eager to receive the belongings of their deceased brother.  Not a good way to achieve closure.

[reader]

You've received some sage advice.  I've gone the executor route and named my good friend (and attorney) to take care of these things. He's also the only one with keys to my apartment. Since he'll be responsible settling whatever my estate consists of, I've instructed him to take possession of my PC and all other devices (iPad, phones).

As ggobkk observes, I wouldn't let angst about what others may think affect your enjoyment of the here and now. What's truly important is what you think and what you believe.

[simcity]

Abidismali

Can you not get hit by a car going to your daily routine.?

No magazines but everything on protected thumb drive

Be more vibrant with your toys; let them wonder what they are for when they find them....

Cheers

[vinapu]

I have a will and executor but I'm not worried at all about what he may find. 

I will be happy if they have fun at my expense if I will be gone. Most likely , like every decent person would , if they find something compromising thay will keep it to themselves and dispose it discreetly.

I strongly believe this is what all of us would do if we found well used dildo among   our beloved Aunt Irma's earthly possessions or as a matter of fact, well thumbed Men of Thailand book under Uncle Vinapu stack of t-shirts

[witty]

The octopus tentacle looks err... so natural especially the suction cups and the camouflage. A very good device indeed for cleaning up the derrière. 

Your friends and family will be impressed by your naturalistic bend. 

[ceejay]

10 hours ago, abidismaili said:

which if they see it will finally make them understand why you go so often to Thailand.

They may already know. I did not come out to friends and family until my youth was long gone.

Almost all said something along the lines of "what kept you? We knew that for years". Turns out that what I had not spoken of out of delicacy for their feelings, they had not spoken of out of delicacy for mine. So it goes.

[abidismaili]

8 hours ago, reader said:

You've received some sage advice.  I've gone the executor route and named my good friend (and attorney) to take care of these things. He's also the only one with keys to my apartment. Since he'll be responsible settling whatever my estate consists of, I've instructed him to take possession of my PC and all other devices (iPad, phones).

As ggobkk observes, I wouldn't let angst about what others may think affect your enjoyment of the here and now. What's truly important is what you think and what you believe.

Do you know how he will get notified that you have died?

I assume authorities contact family first. If your family does not know your attorney how will that attorney get notified abour your death? It can be days, maybe weeks, after your family got to know about it. They leave an apartment un-entered all these weeks? 

[kokopelli]

abidismali, there is nothing in Dutch law to prevent you from having a Will. This is especially important for a gay man who may have friend(s) who he wishes to inherit his Estate.  In the USA only a fool or a pauper would not have a Will or Trust and a pauper could be killed in an accident and be the beneficiary of a great deal of money; there is no hope for a fool!

In my case, my friends would know of my death before my (almost non-existent) family. 

If this is a real concern for you, then you should take precautions as suggested herein.  You could tell family members of your travel plans and advise them of a friend who, in case of your death, will be responsible for your belongings and will have a key for your property.

The only real reason for family members to want to immediately enter your property would be to look for valuables which they could abscond with. 

 

[Guest]

15 hours ago, abidismaili said:

The problem is that if I die in a plane crash on my way to Thailand - or in Thailand itself - my family will of course be informed and in due time visit my apartment and clean it out. They can then see my sex toys and the sex tourism magazines. I rather don't want them to see it, because it feels a bit embarassing. 

What I do is this: all embarassing stuff I put - before I leave for the airport - in a recycle bin at the bottom with above it normal trash. If I die I am pretty sure they will just throw away the bag with thrash in it and don't look inside it. If I return savely (which until now has always happened) I restore my stuff from the bin and put it in its regular place.

 

 

This approach is barking mad.   

The probability of you dying whilst flying to Thailand is negligible.   

The probability per day of you dying in Thailand is only slightly higher than that of dying when you are at home.  

If you happen to spend much more of the year living at home, then you are more likely to die at home.    I appreciate it may be the other way around.

I don't care what anyone finds after I die.   If you do care, then surely you just need to create some kind of hidden storage compartment at home for permanent storage of sensitive items.  Even that is no good if you die when playing with said items.

 

I would be much more concerned about the risk of an accident in Thailand that requires hospital treatment.   If I am unconscious, who makes sure I get to a GOOD hospital & contacts the travel insurance comany ?   Maybe that is worth its own thread.

 

 

 

 

[reader]

7 hours ago, abidismaili said:

Do you know how he will get notified that you have died?

I assume authorities contact family first. If your family does not know your attorney how will that attorney get notified abour your death? It can be days, maybe weeks, after your family got to know about it. They leave an apartment un-entered all these weeks? 

You seem to have gone batshit crazy over this. Dying will surely come as a relief.

Bear in mind that just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not really out to get you.

Now pull on your big boy pants, board your flight and order a few drinks. Staying home and shredding your history is a lousy option.

[Bob]

On 4/8/2019 at 1:23 AM, bobsaigon said:

I live in Vietnam and will probably die here.  I've told my Vietnamese partner NOT to notify the US Consulate when I die, otherwise consulate employees will show up at my apartment and want to take possession of all my personal effects and send them to my sisters.  Aside from whatever embarrassment that might generate, I'm sure my sisters would not be eager to receive the belongings of their deceased brother.  Not a good way to achieve closure.

Absent some secret burial or cremation, the US embassy/consulate will most definitely be promptly notified of your demise.  You can, however, avoid the embassy/consulate's "next-of-kin" search by having your partner show up with a valid Will that appoints him as executor and the person who has power to make cremation/burial arrangements.  Without that valid Will, your partner will have zero say in the process.

And, no, the embassy/consulate people will have nothing to do with your personal belongings (they will not take possession of any belongings other than your passport).

[Travellerdave]

This thread has made me speculate as to what would happen if I died in Thailand. Maybe this would be as a result of a road accident or maybe whilst having sex with a boy in bed or maybe being murdered by a jealous boyfriend - the possibilities are many.

i have of course made a will and left that and information about my affairs with my lawyer. As to embarrassment with what my family would find at my house, all my porn is stored on my iPad and nobody knows the pin. I would be leaving a collection of fetish wear and maybe somewhere there could be poppers, but I’m not concerned of about those.

i have read an interesting book written by the former British consul in Pattaya in which he talks amongst other things about dealing with cases of deceased British visitors and expats. A very interesting account of what actually happens in a variety of circumstances.

[Londoner]

I must recommend a short course in Mindfulness to  Abidismali. Worrying about what may or may not happen  after our deaths and what mysterious secrets may or may not be revealed about our lives seems to me to be a little unbalanced. Mindfulness teaches us to live the moment and avoid "catastrophisation", of which Abidsmali's fears are a superb example.

 

 

[spoon]

He is known to be paranoid, though sad, he is what he is. Someone who dont do long time because of fear being killed by the boy during sleep, definitely will think about his death when he go to thailand and what will happened after he dies. I personally believe its a waste of time to worry much as u really cant control anything after your death. Yes u can have executor, close friends, or even your husband/boyfriend, but who can say that your executor (most likely your husband/lover) will not die together with u in an airplane crash? Do u need a backup executor that did not travel with you then? What if in pure coincedence, your backup executor also dies of food poisoning? Or car accident or heart attack at the same time or before the embassy can find them? If we want to go to excessive paranoid mode, you will never rest. I rest my case. 

[bobsaigon]

14 hours ago, Bob said:

Absent some secret burial or cremation, the US embassy/consulate will most definitely be promptly notified of your demise.  You can, however, avoid the embassy/consulate's "next-of-kin" search by having your partner show up with a valid Will that appoints him as executor and the person who has power to make cremation/burial arrangements.  Without that valid Will, your partner will have zero say in the process.

And, no, the embassy/consulate people will have nothing to do with your personal belongings (they will not take possession of any belongings other than your passport).

 

According to the website of the US Consulate in  Saigon, all belongings and valuables of the deceased will be taken and sent to next of kin, unless there is a locally appointed legal representative.

Also, I don't know how the Consulate "will most definitely be promptly notified of my demise" if my partner does not inform them,.

[kokopelli]

This is posted in US Embassy website:

 

The U.S. Mission Thailand is ready to assist family and friends in the event of the death of a U.S. citizen in Thailand. The American Citizen Services unit can:

• Confirm the death, identity, and U.S. citizenship of the deceased.
• Notify the next-of-kin.
• Provide information about the disposition of the remains and personal effects of the deceased.
• Prepare documents for the disposition of the remains in accordance with instructions from the next-of-kin or legal representative.
• Provide guidance on forwarding funds to cover costs.
• Serve as provisional conservator of the estate if there is no legal representative in the country.
• Send the Consular Report of Death Abroad to the next-of-kin or legal representative for use in settling estate matters in the United States.

[ceejay]

10 hours ago, bobsaigon said:

Also, I don't know how the Consulate "will most definitely be promptly notified of my demise" if my partner does not inform them,.

I don't know about Vietnam, but in Thailand it is the Thai authorities. Without that, no funeral is possible. The body stays in the morgue.

Unless you have made a Thai will nominating an executor with the specific power to make funeral arrangements (as I have, with my boyfriend as executor)

It's as much for the benefit of my next of kin in England as for any other reason. Without it, they would have the task of negotiating Thai bureaucracy and arranging a funeral from several  thousand miles away.

[Bob]

10 hours ago, bobsaigon said:

 

According to the website of the US Consulate in  Saigon, all belongings and valuables of the deceased will be taken and sent to next of kin, unless there is a locally appointed legal representative.

Also, I don't know how the Consulate "will most definitely be promptly notified of my demise" if my partner does not inform them,.

Here is the url to the US Embassy website section which deals with the death of a US citizen in Vietnam: https://vn.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/death-of-a-u-s-citizen/   This section doesn't even mention personal property of a deceased so I'm wondering if you might provide a link to any other section that states or even suggests that embassy personnel would take possession of, store, and/or transport any property of a deceased US citizen. 

Again, absent a secret death and burial (one without a police report or involvement of a hospital) of a US citizen, the embassy will be notified.  Standard procedure and that's when the embassy will start their "next-of-kin" search for notification of the death and issuance of a death certificate for use back in the states.  

[bobsaigon]

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/international-travel/while-abroad/death-abroad1.html  appears to indicate that lacking a local legal representative, the US Consulate will be arranging for repatriation of all personal effects of the deceased American citizen.

I am still not clear about who is going to notify the US Consulate if the deceased has told his partner not to do so.   I am looking at this from the point of view of someone who has already sent siblings their financial legacy, to avoid the need for probate.  I've also arranged for all real property in Vietnam to be in the name of my partner who is designated as my legal representative.    My US relatives will be informed of my death through my US business partner.  I don't see any need to notify the American consulate.

[Bob]

Bob, nobody is trying to argue with you.  Perhaps you might explain just how your partner is going to handle disposition of your remains (which, no doubt, will end up in a hospital morgue) without a release from the embassy/consulate (along with police release and payment of the hospital charges) and without a valid Will that gives your partner authority to make those decisions.  

[bobsaigon]

Perhaps you might explain just how your partner is going to handle disposition of your remains (which, no doubt, will end up in a hospital morgue) without a release from the embassy/consulate (along with police release and payment of the hospital charges) and without a valid Will that gives your partner authority to make those decisions.  

- My partner will pay any outstanding hospital charges and will arrange for my cremation.

-Sorry, I still don't understand why there would need to be a release from the Consulate.   I must admit that I have not investigated this aspect.

-There will be a valid will appointing my partner as my legal representative with power to make all decisions after my death.

My  main objective is to avoid having anyone from the Consulate show up at my apartment, claiming they have the right to send everything I've left behind to the States.